My Scalextric collection had zero electronics, a Hornby model train transformer, hand controls that would go up in smoke if anything shorted the rails, cars with not even a noise suppression capacitor across the carbon brushes, solder braid pick up contacts, the lap counters were mechanical.........................................

 

What has changed, do they now have particulate filters and urine injection systems?

14 minutes ago, @Lee said:

I found a vid. Crikey, I didn't realise it was that far back. 'New' TG series 1.

 

12 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Black Stig & Richard Hammond vs the speed camera round 3 - Top Gear - Series 1 - BBC - Bing video

 

I'd always had 174mph (well, since 2007 anyway) in my head.  Wonder where I got that from.  I'll try to forget it, but I expect it's too firmly etched now 😇

 

G

Yeah, it looks to me to about 177mph, what did you make it?

I take back everything I have said about Tesla and their charging stations.....

 

 

 

They are very convenient

 

 

 

Edited 5 August, 20232 yr by Lady Elanore

Here is something that you don't get to see very often, a YT presenter admitting that they got something wrong, but either way he manages to debunk the myth that EV's are going to save the world.

 

The first video is where he made the error and the 2nd one is where he fessed up.

 

 

 

 

 

If only our politicians would do the same when they screw up.

Edited 5 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Here is something that you don't get to see very often, a YT presenter admitting that they got something wrong, but either way he manages to debunk the myth that EV's are going to save the world.

 

The first video is where he made the error and the 2nd one is where he fessed up.

 

 

 

 

 

If only our politicians would do the same when they screw up.

“It’s about X kg of CO2 per kWh of battery” 

Yeah mate, very well referenced number pulled out of your backside.
 

The correction had to be made, because it was a mistake so fundamental, there is no excuse in the first place. If only he had double checked his figures and conclusion with reputable sources. 

The fossil fuels will always be taken from out of the ground on land or under the sea. Maybe mixed with liquid that comes from growing plants.

Those will be refined at cracking plants using oil or gas to produce generate electricity to produce the petrol or diesel or other energy sources.

The Synthetic fuels & also the likes the hydrogen will also require electricity to manufacture.

The electricity might well come from renewable sources like solar, wind, hydro & wave but it still all requires electricity and the liquid fuels always need transportation over or under land or sea. 

It is not just about emissions from burning fuels it is all that is involved in producing and transporting.

 

Seemingly Carbon Capture is the answer to all that.  Also carbon trading and all the other kidology that seemingly means that fossil fuels or synthetic fuels can be clean.

 

The issue with electricity is the lack of storage in the UK and the lack of using what can be generated so not generating all that could be and using it to produce hydrogen. 

It is the same with natural gas in the UK, a lack of storage facilities once it is taken out of where it has been for millions or billions of years.

Edited 6 August, 20232 yr by toot

4 hours ago, toot said:

The fossil fuels will always be taken from out of the ground on land or under the sea. Maybe mixed with liquid that comes from growing plants.

Those will be refined at cracking plants using oil or gas to produce generate electricity to produce the petrol or diesel or other energy sources.

The Synthetic fuels & also the likes the hydrogen will also require electricity to manufacture.

The electricity might well come from renewable sources like solar, wind, hydro & wave but it still all requires electricity and the liquid fuels always need transportation over or under land or sea. 

It is not just about emissions from burning fuels it is all that is involved in producing and transporting.

Seemingly Carbon Capture is the answer to all that.  Also carbon trading and all the other kidology that seemingly means that fossil fuels or synthetic fuels can be clean.

The issue with electricity is the lack of storage in the UK and the lack of using what can be generated so not generating all that could be and using it to produce hydrogen. 

It is the same with natural gas in the UK, a lack of storage facilities once it is taken out of where it has been for millions or billions of years.

I think these BESS storage sites are coming on line and it is possible to set this up in as little as 90 days as seen in Australia when Must took up a challenge, many times faster than making a carbon burning power station..... https://megawattmosaic.com/europes-biggest-bess-netted-nearly-us3-million-revenues-in-q1-2023/

 

As well as all this UK grid connected battery storage, and difficult to estimate is the amount of domestic/home storage which I would not be surprised is several KWh by many hundreds of thousands of home if not in to the million plus, hopefully powering EV charging, heat pump heating and all electrical device powering.

As a side note very glad to see Octopus drop my day time rate for 40p to less than 30p per kWh though night time rate is popping up from 7.5p to 9.5p per kWh, standing charge up an incredible 5p a day from 47p to 52p per day.  Gas down from 10p to 7.5p per kWh so I can expect much lower energy bills this autumn and winter. Well done Octopus.    

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Europe’s biggest battery storage system in megawatt-hour (MWh) terms earned £2.3 million (US$2.85 million) revenues during its first full quarter in commercial operation.  UK-based investment fund Harmony Energy Income Trust said recently that its Pillswood Battery Energy Storage System (Pillswood BESS) in northern England was one of the best-performing battery storage assets in Britain in the first quarter of 2023.  Chinese multinational corporation Envision Energy has agreed on a partnership with Harmony Energy Income Trust to provide battery energy storage systems (BESS) for projects in the UK.  Envision Energy will develop liquid-cooled energy storage systems which are capable of providing energy time-shifting, capacity services and frequency regulation services.  Harmony Energy Income Trust invests within the battery energy storage sector and currently operates 109MW/218MWh of BESS in the UK with a further 286.4MW/572.8MWh under construction.  Wormald Green and Hawthorn Pit, the BESS projects Envision is contracted for, are set to commence in Q2 2023, both anticipated to be fully completed and connected to the grid in Q1 2024. Wormald Green has a storage capacity of 33MW/66MWh whereas Hawthorn Pit has a slightly higher storage capacity of 49.9MW/99.8Mh.  According to Envision, its expertise lies in full-stack technical capabilities ranging from battery technologies to energy storage systems. This has also seen it support the deliverance of two-hour duration BESS.  This could strengthen Harmony Energy’s vision with the company also exploring two-hour duration BESS projects. As of the end of the first year since the company’s incorporation, it had six two-hour duration BESS projects totalling 312.5MW/625MWh.

 

@J.R.there really are hysterical tyres on my new car. More suited to a Scalextric car or using on a Karting track.

 

They will stay on for maybe a month or two just to see how good they are to hypermile the car but they will be replaced pretty quick as the frosts appear or maybe even rain like we have just had today.

Edited 7 August, 20232 yr by toot

I've been working with a chap who looks after the mobile generator trucks we use at work. Turns out they have been bought be a much bigger company (so serious investment is now available) and are now looking at hydrogen fuel cell gennies! Already some golf and tennis events have had a Hydrogen genny on site and I believe they can produce around 250kW from a cell that is surprisingly small. He described a cell area of around 3 x 4 feet, or there abouts, which seem tiny for something that can produce 250kW (I have no idea about the actual molecular science involved in this technology of course  ). They also use a huge amount of conventional battery technology to supplement this generator, with a sort of topping up process going on continuously I gather, but the fuel cell can run full tilt as a pure generator if needed. They do have to redesign the truck/generator body however, so if it goes 'BANG' then the roof blows off and the sides stay intact. I might not be parking next to one of these though...just to be sure  

 

SKY TV are looking to go full hydrogen/battery for all their OBs by 2030, although I gather the costs at the moment mean the electricity bill will go up 3 or 4 times. I may well be still in the industry long enough to see these things appear   I'm super interested to see one in action 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the fuel cell genny that I was discussing with the 'Sparky' chap, used really big truck turbos to deliver the oxygen/air to the cell

6 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

He described a cell area of around 3 x 4 feet, or there abouts, which seem tiny for something that can produce 250kW (I have no idea about the actual molecular science involved in this technology of course  ). They also use a huge amount of conventional battery technology to supplement this generator, with a sort of topping up process going on continuously I gather, but the fuel cell can run full tilt as a pure generator if needed.

From what I can understand, that 250 kw rating is most likely peak output. It would be interesting to see how long that lasts and what is guaranteed continuous output from the fuel cell generator. 
 

Just like hydrogen fuel cell cars, battery are always needed to act as buffer between non-constant power requirement and constant fuel-cell power output. Key is getting the right matching for the application. 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

From what I can understand, that 250 kw rating is most likely peak output. It would be interesting to see how long that lasts and what is guaranteed continuous output from the fuel cell generator. 
 

Just like hydrogen fuel cell cars, battery are always needed to act as buffer between non-constant power requirement and constant fuel-cell power output. Key is getting the right matching for the application. 

 

The spark said it could sustain the load, but it was most efficient to share it with the batteries 

He had experience of the system recharging a well known motor brand EV launch and had 35 or so big vehicles to simultaneously charge. Quite tricky as each car drew a 3 phase supply and as they fill up, they drop a phase off, so balancing was something that had to be kept an eye on. I can't mention the brand, as he posted a picture on his social media and was asked to take it down by the brand

I always think electric motor are the holy grail for converting energy into kinetic. But the energy storage can vary.
 

It can be fossil fuel now in style of range extender, or hydrogen fuel cell in the future for the minority that cannot make BEV work. Of course MUST be green hydrogen at same proportional cost as loss in efficiency. 
 

Charging those EV’s costed some pretty pennies. It’s probably a brand publicity move or tech demo. Practically, it is always cheaper to use a small grid connection and second-life batteries as buffer. 
 

 

9 hours ago, wyx087 said:

From what I can understand, that 250 kw rating is most likely peak output. It would be interesting to see how long that lasts and what is guaranteed continuous output from the fuel cell generator. 
 

Just like hydrogen fuel cell cars, battery are always needed to act as buffer between non-constant power requirement and constant fuel-cell power output. Key is getting the right matching for the application. 

 

In addition to it being something "sensinsible" to smooth out demand spike it also makes incredibly good sense for EV charging providers to add the mega-battery packs so the charge station operator can get lecky from the grid at a few pence per kWh and then sell it to punters at tens of pence per kWh, what a business model.

 

Good to see Gridserve, who some regard as the pioneers with their EV charging stations with 30 plus charging points plus facilities, they not only put these on motorways but A roads as well and now we have the one in Cornwall at the Cornwall Service with 1 MWh battery and solar canopy.  Additional battery packs presumably can be added as cars with higher charge rates use the 350kw chargers and not only the AC charge points.   3 other charge points for LEAF connections making 15 in all.

 

https://www.cornwall-services.com/gridserve/

GRIDSERVE ACCELERATES HIGH POWER EV CHARGING AT CORNWALL SERVICES WITH UK-FIRST BATTERY AND SOLAR POWER INNOVATION

• Innovative solution, which includes solar canopy and 1MW battery, delivers EV charging years ahead of new grid connection availability
• GRIDSERVE Technologies software optimises available grid and solar energy to maximise charging speeds with dynamic load sharing
• Planning permission submitted for adjacent 1 MWp solar farm to deliver zero carbon energy from the sun directly into electric vehicles

GRIDSERVE, the technology market leader in EV (Electric Vehicle) charging, has delivered another UK first at Cornwall Services with a new solution that combines the latest innovations in batteries and solar energy to supplement the existing grid connection to deliver ten times the charging power.

Thanks to this innovation, GRIDSERVE and Cornwall Services have been able to open a 12 charger Electric Super Hub on the A30, complete with a state-of-the-art solar canopy. Six High Power 350kW-capable chargers provide a quick top up for people passing through on their journeys, along with six Low Power AC chargers for overnight guests at the onsite hotel.

 

Gridserve do have a lot of experience with battery tech at their charging facilities, using them at both Braintree and Norwich Forecourts to buffer solar generation from the roofs and nearby. In addition they can make extra revenue with grid support discharge or by taking power when prices are negative. So using batteries at places where there is a weak grid connection is probably obvious to them.

For MSAs, they are leveraging a government initiative to provide battery power to enable chargers to be installed.(https://nationalhighways.co.uk/about-us/new-charging-systems-to-help-electric-vehicle-drivers-on-our-motorways/) The batteries are meant as an interim solution while the grid connection is built out, then re-used at another location with grid connection issues. However, they may be used long term where sites have particular issues such as Tebay whose nearest 33kV connection is 5 miles away and at capacity, so nearest viable connection is 10 miles away. Tebay is likely to use a solar and battery solution permanently and have applied for planning for a solar farm on land next door.

Edited 8 August, 20232 yr by Luckypants
Typo

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

Gridserve do have a lot of experience with battery tech at their charging facilities, using them at both Braintree and Norwich Forecourts to buffer solar generation from the roofs and nearby. In addition they can make extra revenue with grid support discharge or by taking power when prices are negative. So using batteries at places where there is a weak grid connection is probably obvious to them.

or MSAs, they are leveraging a government initiative to provide battery power to enable chargers to be installed.(https://nationalhighways.co.uk/about-us/new-charging-systems-to-help-electric-vehicle-drivers-on-our-motorways/) The batteries are meant as an interim solution while the grid connection is built out, then re-used at another location with grid connection issues. However, they may be used long term where sites have particular issues such as Tebay whose nearest 33kV connection is 5 miles away and at capacity, so nearest viable connection is 10 miles away. Tebay is likely to use a solar and battery solution permanently and have applied for planning for a solar farm on land next door.

 

Interesting solution Chinese are using on EV ships, 700 TEU ie 20 foot container equivalent, is to just drop in a twenty foot 50 MWh container in to the Mega pack bank, container can be charger a few miles a away and then dropped in to the Motorway services and continue to be trickle charged but if get low slot in a fully charged 50 MWh TEU pack as with this Chinese 10,000 ship running up and down the Yellow river, can I call it that, should be Yangtze, or correctly 长江;. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Interesting solution Chinese are using on EV ships, 700 TEU ie 20 foot container equivalent, is to just drop in a twenty foot 50 MWh container in to the Mega pack bank, container can be charger a few miles a away and then dropped in to the Motorway services and continue to be trickle charged but if get low slot in a fully charged 50 MWh TEU pack as with this Chinese 10,000 ship running up and down the Yellow river, can I call it that, should be Yangtze, or correctly 长江;. 

 

 

You beat me, I was just about to post this myself 🙃🙃

The battery swap idea on ships is the same as cars such as the Nio ET5. I think it makes sense on ships as the number of ships needing this service will be smaller than car numbers and also the TEU batteries work wonderfully with infrastructure already in place. with cars, if 20 cars turn up for a battery swap, its the same problem as not enough chargers at a location, there will be queueing. If a car swap station runs out of charged batteries, we'd be back to the not enough chargers scenario we have now.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

You beat me, I was just about to post this myself 🙃🙃

 

As an ex Merchant Navy Engineer, and in international logistics now I do like to follow these matters. All parts of the revolution in motive power.

 

aerospace is a different matter as no electrical equivalent to jet engines or rockets so that needs a rethink. Back to propellers to replace jet engines as to rockets not seen a solution there other than ion drive.

5 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

The battery swap idea on ships is the same as cars such as the Nio ET5. I think it makes sense on ships as the number of ships needing this service will be smaller than car numbers and also the TEU batteries work wonderfully with infrastructure already in place. with cars, if 20 cars turn up for a battery swap, its the same problem as not enough chargers at a location, there will be queueing. If a car swap station runs out of charged batteries, we'd be back to the not enough chargers scenario we have now.
 

 

 

Think they had a fire in Norway too,  oops.

 

As to EV fires the fire blanket seems to work well, or foam maybe, not so much water. That what I was taught I recall, red water extinguishers for normal inflatable material, foam or co2 for electrical, fire blankets are good too.

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

As to EV fires the fire blanket seems to work well, or foam maybe, not so much water. That what I was taught I recall, red water extinguishers for normal inflatable material, foam or co2 for electrical, fire blankets are good too.

Except lithium battery fires can be self sustaining IIRC. They don't require air as most conventional fires as the salts contained are self oxidising. So smother it with a blanket or foam and they continue to burn. Only option is to control/lower the temperature of the burn and try and confine ot to stop the fire spreading. Use of aluminium and magnesium commonly used to reduce weight only adds to the problem.

 

https://thompson-safety.com/company/press/lithium-ion-battery-fire

12 minutes ago, xman said:

Except lithium battery fires can be self sustaining IIRC. They don't require air as most conventional fires as the salts contained are self oxidising. So smother it with a blanket or foam and they continue to burn. Only option is to control/lower the temperature of the burn and try and confine ot to stop the fire spreading. Use of aluminium and magnesium commonly used to reduce weight only adds to the problem.  https://thompson-safety.com/company/press/lithium-ion-battery-fire