11kW AC is not pretty standard. Even on 23 plate EV,s.

 The disabled driver yesterday who asked me why his new Citroen wheel chair accessible vehicle was getting 6 kW on the 22 kw charger.

I told him because it had the 7 kW on board charger as the 11 kW had not been ordered. 

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

The destination charging speed is only really relevant when trying to get some charge during a short stay. 

It's the rapid charging speed that really matters. VW are average in this area. 

 

Personally, I don't care if my car charges at 3.3 kW or 11 kW when it's parked at a destination and I'm off doing other stuff. 

35 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Regardless of the story… vw cars are too slow to charge, have horrible entertainment system and the brake/suspension set up was nasty.

The ID3 was available at a good price point, but not sure if that’s true.

 

I’d suggest they need a new platform, so maybe they should hurry up with the PPE for Audi.

Eh? what? the car in the story was a Renault not a VW.

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

The destination charging speed is only really relevant when trying to get some charge during a short stay. 

It's the rapid charging speed that really matters. VW are average in this area. 

 

Personally, I don't care if my car charges at 3.3 kW or 11 kW when it's parked at a destination and I'm off doing other stuff. 

What about the times when you know that you're only be there for a short time before returning again? Or are you really saying that you only do short journeys in and around N London, in which case I agree.

42 minutes ago, toot said:

While charging i just read on my phone an article in The Sun that popped up.

Published 13th August 2023.  'Jon Rogers' seems to be the journalist.

 

Carwow's Matt Watson (that well known Motoring Journalist who,s videos get linked here often) driving 'in the dark' the cars with the longest claimed ranges.

Seemingly he drove them until they ran out of energy and he had to call the breakdown services to help him out.     Really ....   

If he had not his own recovery arranged then knock us down with a feather and slap him hard with a kipper..

 

'He was trapped in the middle of the night'. 

 

Maybe someone could link this article because i am not trapped having charged during the night while driving and again now before having a wee sleep. 

 

There are a load of more articles, dealers closing, mechanics losing jobs, ICEd EV bays etc etc. 

 Rupert Murdoch must not have invested into EV,s. 

 

 

I think Matt Watson was testing the cars to see how close you can get in normal driving to the makers claimed range, which is nearly impossible to match in most cases. Here is the requested link.

 

(360) I drove these NEW electric cars until they DIED! - YouTube

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

41 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

What about the times when you know that you're only be there for a short time before returning again? Or are you really saying that you only do short journeys in and around N London, in which case I agree.

Well, if you really need the range, there's always rapid charging. 

If you are not short on range, just grazing, does charging speed matter? 

If you are saying grazing at many places for many short stays and thus charging speed differences add up. I'd say the effort of getting the cable and plugging in so many times also add up, might as well just rapid charge once and overnight charge the rest. 

 

When I'm out about, if no overnight charging option, I usually use Tesla supercharger network during their the off-peak time so that's not much more expensive than peak time home charging. In the few instances I'm beyond Leaf home range, I'd use rapid charging. 

 

25 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think Matt Watson was testing the cars to see how close you can get in normal driving to the makers claimed range, which is nearly impossible to match in most cases. Here is the requested link.

 

(360) I drove these NEW electric cars until they DIED! - YouTube

I think the point was how a tabloid dramatise a non-story range test. 

5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Well, if you really need the range, there's always rapid charging. 

If you are not short on range, just grazing, does charging speed matter? 

If you are saying grazing at many places for many short stays and thus charging speed differences add up. I'd say the effort of getting the cable and plugging in so many times also add up, might as well just rapid charge once and overnight charge the rest. 

 

When I'm out about, if no overnight charging option, I usually use Tesla supercharger network during their the off-peak time so that's not much more expensive than peak time home charging. In the few instances I'm beyond Leaf home range, I'd use rapid charging. 

 

I think the point was how a tabloid dramatise a non-story range test. 

Hmm, odd that because I'd have thought it was essential to get some idea of just how close you can get to the WLTP claimed figures and he has also done the same kind of tests with ICE cars in the past, only difference being that they can all be done in much less time by draining the tanks and putting just 1 gallon back in as ICE cars are quoted in terms of MPG.

21 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Hmm, odd that because I'd have thought it was essential to get some idea of just how close you can get to the WLTP claimed figures and he has also done the same kind of tests with ICE cars in the past, only difference being that they can all be done in much less time by draining the tanks and putting just 1 gallon back in as ICE cars are quoted in terms of MPG.

Have you read the tabloid article with click bait title root was talking about? 

 

I've no problem with carwow test and the test methodology. I'm just saying the test itself isn't the sticking point. 

Getting WLTP type range certainly is not near impossible if you drive like a WLTP kidology regime does.    Actually you can better the published figures.  But then you would be going less than 50 miles in every hour probably and maybe even 40 miles in an hour.   Matt Watson might start in the dark and it would be about 7 hours before being stuck in the middle of the night.  But then seeing how late it gets dark if up north and how early it is light and then who really cares.   Ps.  I got better that the MINI Cooper S electric official figures last night. But I have discovered in 3 days that is achievable not in Mid, Green or Green +, with max regen but in Sport at NSL  60 mph and there abouts and not sparing the horses.  Light regen and hardly ever lift off the accelerator.. 

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

Ps.  I did not request Matt Watson's vid.  I requested the link to the Sun,s article on Matt Watson driving the cars. 

I think you would certainly have to driving a lot slower than 40mph and coasting a lot and hardly ever needing to touch the brakes. While that style of driving might well be possible in some very remote parts of the country and also of course the driver needs to have all the time in the world to make the journey. When in reality life is very seldom like that, we have time to keep, other drivers etc that cause you to brake, people tailgating you, because you're driving too slow, even if they can see your approaching a hazard.

6 minutes ago, toot said:

Ps.  I did not request Matt Watson's vid.  I requested the link to the Sun,s article on Matt Watson driving the cars. 

Oh, sorry, my bad.🙄

@Graham Butcher, You are wrong so try an EV.  You can nip on, but not motorway speed or back road and Cruise Control.  In some EV,s.   The video is 4 longest range cars in UK tested.   PS are you a regular 5 hour driving person?  I am and did 60,000 miles in an EV with limited range.  But when I was sitting charging and posting here there were Commercial Travellers / reps sitting doing their work or having a break next to me.  1,000 plus miles a week drivers. 

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

So now sitting at a hospital waiting on someone.  Started with car showing 120 mile range.  Left 30 mph limit and 20 miles average speed camera to hospital 20 miles away and 4.5 miles per kWh and sitting showing 125 mild range.    That is not rural that was ok n the A77 and no traffic in front of behind. 88% battery showing on a 28.9 kWh usable battery.   Real world.  

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

3 hours ago, toot said:

 11kW AC is not pretty standard. Even on 23 plate EV,s.

 The disabled driver yesterday who asked me why his new Citroen wheel chair accessible vehicle was getting 6 kW on the 22 kw charger.

I told him because it had the 7 kW on board charger as the 11 kW had not been ordered. 

 

Zoe the fast charging car on AC, only a small band of EVs can charge at 22 kW AC.  Some Zoe could do 43 kW AC, similar to its DC charging rate of around 46 kW, faster than any Tesla on the easy to tap in to 3 phase AC grid available many places......

 

10 minutes in......

 

0 

41 minutes ago, toot said:

So now sitting at a hospital waiting on someone.  Started with car showing 120 mile range.  Left 30 mph limit and 20 miles average speed camera to hospital 20 miles away and 4.5 miles per kWh and sitting showing 125 mild range.    That is not rural that was ok n the A77 and no traffic in front of behind. 88% battery showing on a 28.9 kWh usable battery.   Real world.  

To answer your previous question about a 5 hour driver, yes I used to be that and longer and even now I'm retired, I still do journeys like that and the example above is not that uncommon even with ICE cars. For example, I brought my current car from a dealer all the way up in Mansfield and when I collected the car from them, it showed a range of 53 miles in the trip computer. This was enough I thought to enable me to reach one of the many petrol stations on the A1 where I noticed that the fuel was less expensive. Not surprisingly, once I had the car rolling along at a nice steady 50mph ish that range began to increase slightly before it started to come down again and I got to Bar Hill on the A14 and it was predicting approx nearly 60 miles of range and I had 49 to go still.  With it being a new car to me I decided that I had better at that point play safe and pulled into the Tesco filling station and filled up, that was some 96 miles away from Mansfield, a far cry from the predicted range in Mansfield of just 53 miles.

 

All your example and mine are showing is the predicted range at the start of a trip is based upon previous journeys and those may have been uphill for example. My trip home was for the most part very slightly down hill so with the car in ECO mode, I was able to coast for long spells, and you in your EV might have been doing some regen and so topping up your battery, so neither are real examples of actually beating or getting close to the WLTP figures because for that to be correct, we'd both need to the same drive in the opposite direction to average the results out.

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

There are all flavours of EV,s and prices and it is horses for courses.  If there are no suitable EV,s for a person's circumstance the have 7 years or more not to drive one.     WLTP with EV,s or Hybrids of PHEV,s is more ridiculous than even it is with an pure ICE vehicle.   There are many company car drivers and private individuals that know how much cash money they are better off with driving an EV and plenty more than do not. 

12 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Zoe the fast charging car on AC, only a small band of EVs can charge at 22 kW AC.  Some Zoe could do 43 kW AC, similar to its DC charging rate of around 46 kW, faster than any Tesla on the easy to tap in to 3 phase AC grid available many places......

 

10 minutes in......

 

0 

I've seen reports that also say that the actual rate of recharging would also depend upon the current level of charge the battery has. They suggest that a low battery will start off at a far higher rate than a battery which is approaching full charge.  This is just basic electrical physics, i.e, good old-fashioned ohm's law in operation. As the battery charges up, it voltage rises and that voltage is effectively pushing back at the voltage of the charger and as the battery voltage increases, the difference between battery voltage and charger voltage gets smaller and therefore less "pressure" to push the KW's into the battery. So the same thing happens with cars equipped with the CCS (DC superfast), they all have to obey physics.

2 minutes ago, toot said:

There are all flavours of EV,s and prices and it is horses for courses.  If there are no suitable EV,s for a person's circumstance the have 7 years or more not to drive one.     WLTP with EV,s or Hybrids of PHEV,s is more ridiculous than even it is with an pure ICE vehicle.   There are many company car drivers and private individuals that know how much cash money they are better off with driving an EV and plenty more than do not. 

True, and those who are saving money, they are the ones who are able to do most of their charging at home, but the reality is that is not possible for most of the population so they are forced to use public chargers whose rates per KW are expensive as they will be required to pay for themselves and also make profits for the operators.

First, let's forget about the guess-o-meter. Let's only talk in % terms. The range based on previous driving style is completely unpredictable and a useless metric apart from when driving on a very flat road at constant speed. Too many variables to use as a comparison even to itself. 

 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

As the battery charges up, it voltage rises and that voltage is effectively pushing back at the voltage of the charger and as the battery voltage increases, the difference between battery voltage and charger voltage gets smaller and therefore less "pressure" to push the KW's into the battery.

Yes, the rate of recharge an EV (rapid charging) depends on many factors: mainly battery SoC, temperature, Although it sounds correct, increased battery voltage as it charges isn't the reason why EV's slow down charge rate. The rapid charger is variable in voltage, it is able to constant increase voltage to maintain charge rate. The real reason charge rate slows is to protect the battery for longevity and safety. The charge rate is controlled by the car's BMS. 

The UK has 4 countries.  I can not comment on 3 of them from experience of EV charging.  I do not home charge.   It is strange that those who never home or public charge are so knowledgeable on the subject from 2nd hand information often from those that have never used an EV as a daily or even an occasional means of transport. 

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

1 hour ago, toot said:

It is strange that those who never home or public charge are so knowledgeable on the subject from 2nd hand information...

 

+1 Completely agree with you.   I think it even stranger that those who don't own a Skoda or have it serviced at a main dealer are so knowledgeable on the subject. Have you ever noticed how they always use 2nd hand information from goolging the internet or searching this websites posts to justify their claim and tell us owners that we're wrong?  Annoying isn't it.

 

47 minutes ago, toot said:

The UK has 4 countries.  I can not comment on 3 of them from experience of EV charging.  I do not home charge.   It is strange that those who never home or public charge are so knowledgeable on the subject from 2nd hand information often from those that have never used an EV as a daily or even an occasional means of transport. 

Down this part of the country there some large blocks of flats and apartments where EVs are banned from as the insurers will not provide cover for the buildings unless there are no EVs. Also many blocks etc even houses which cannot install their own chargers so people have no options other than public ones. True I have never driven a pure EV, but there are EVs in the family so I'm not just relying on YT videos. That said though when some of them make no secret of the true public cost by showing you the cost of their charging on screen of the chargers, it is plain to see the coat per KW and convert that into miles per KW. 

Don't for a single minute run away with the notion that I'm anti EV because that is not correct. 

 

I can see that for some people they are the perfect solution for all kinds of reasons, just not for me given the purchase cost's etc. As an OAP I just don't have the necessary funds to purchase one and with type of journeys I make means that when I reach my destination, there is zero chance of there being a charging point on a remote airfield and if there was it useless with hundreds or maybe thousands of others at an airshow also wanting to charge. That would then mean I'd have book into a hotel overnight whole the car charged, again a big drain on a pension. 

 

It seems that an EV suits you and that is fine, it was your choice to have one and that is how it should be. But I disagree that people should be forced to switch from ICE to EV, it would be the same if people were forced to switch from diesel to petrol or vice versa. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I've seen reports that also say that the actual rate of recharging would also depend upon the current level of charge the battery has. They suggest that a low battery will start off at a far higher rate than a battery which is approaching full charge.  This is just basic electrical physics, i.e, good old-fashioned ohm's law in operation. As the battery charges up, it voltage rises and that voltage is effectively pushing back at the voltage of the charger and as the battery voltage increases, the difference between battery voltage and charger voltage gets smaller and therefore less "pressure" to push the KW's into the battery. So the same thing happens with cars equipped with the CCS (DC superfast), they all have to obey physics.

 

The physics is a little more complex than above and the EV tech is changing, improving rapidly. In the case of Renault, the other half of the Nissan-Renault alliance that kicked off mainstream EV adoption in the Western countries the current Zoe has a limited of 125 Amps charge rate and I agree with you in that it is amps that is the enemy it is that which starts to warp components and go chemical damage to the anode so Renault limit to a "conservative" 125 A which has resulted in the Zoe, and other Renaults like their vans, tending to have a better battery health in later life ie 4,5,6 years down the line.  Yes the Battery Management System starts to throttle a bit just over when battery half full and can be effected if it is high ambient temperatures ie 30 C plus as these batteries do not like to be above 45 C. 

 

I have only DC/fast charged once. Did it when it was about 40% charged, whapped it up to 60% charged in between 10 and 15 minutes, enough time to have a comfort break and get a McDs and then had enough charge to do the remaining hundred miles home at A road and Motorway speed limit speeds. Whole experience very nice.  This was high summer.  Can be a different story mid winter but this is where the move from Lithium to Lithium Iron Phosphate is making things better ie less drop off in the last 20% of charging plus much safer battery chemistry.        

 

y h

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Down this part of the country there some large blocks of flats and apartments where EVs are banned from as the insurers will not provide cover for the buildings unless there are no EVs.

Link/source to this? 

What about visitors? 

This sounds like the car park collapse FUD. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

, just not for me given the purchase cost's etc.

 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/second-hand-evs-are-cheaper-than-ice.179449

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

But I disagree that people should be forced to switch from ICE to EV, it would be the same if people were forced to switch from diesel to petrol or vice versa. 

No one is forcing anyone to switch to EV. ICE are a viable choice for next 12 years. You can continue to buy second hand ICE for next 30+ years. 

1 hour ago, kodiaqsportline said:

 

+1 Completely agree with you.   I think it even stranger that those who don't own a Skoda or have it serviced at a main dealer are so knowledgeable on the subject. Have you ever noticed how they always use 2nd hand information from goolging the internet or searching this websites posts to justify their claim and tell us owners that we're wrong?  Annoying isn't it.

 

Unlike some folk, as an electrical engineer I do understand the technicalities of EV and as an engineer I never have a closed mind, its always open and absorbing new knowledge all the time`and I often research websites in search of answers and indeed Google can be your friend and also your enemy at times. When you come across information that has been researched by various professors from well known and respected universities, it would be a daft person to ignore their findings because it disagreed with their own opinions. I was taught by some very clever people and one thing I was told stuck in my mind, that is "Its not until you learn something, that you begin to realise just how little you actually know" The other thing I was told is that when someone tells you something, a true engineer always probes that information and that is how new discoveries are made. So never rubbish what some others say based just upon whether they have ever owned a Skoda, or had their car serviced at a main dealer or not, because what they say might just be right, it's impossible to tell without further investigation. ☺️