9 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

In China the number of fires involving cars with traction batteries is skewed very heavily in favour of plug in hybrids rather than pure EVs, apparently by a ratio of many to one.

BYD seem to be the main culprits, yes they are the largest make of PHEVs but the numbers of car fire involving their cars is still disproportionately high....

 

The move away from lithium to lithium iron phosphate cannot come soon us as video shows.......

 

 

 

 

 

It is that high energy sidewise venting of fumes, toxins and fire that is possibly causing so many nasty fires on these car-carrying ships whereas ICE vehicles the flames are more or less going straight up and the EV's with the earlier battery types are creating chain effects with their blowtorch effect. This is also the reason why Thatcham are now saying that accident damaged EV's are to be stored outside and at least 15 metres away from other vehicles or objects etc.

18 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The thing is that I have stored among my many hard drives of many TBs tons of referencing evidences to I think back up all of my claims apart from the EV's not being allowed into these upmarket apartments that are springing up all along the Thames now of which some colleagues have told me about and I see no reason why they should be telling me lies. One said that his neighbour was complaining because the landlord had made him park his PHEV Range Rover outside and away from the building because of the insurance stipulations on the building. I just don't have the time to go trawling through the drives looking for them at the present moment.

 

Now if your reference to the main stream media means TV and newspapers, well I gave up on those years ago since they became effectively muted by those that seek to control the narrative and treat us all like mushrooms and thus use the MSN to manipulate us in whatever fashion suits their purpose. I can't remember the last time I read a newspaper or watched the news, just to be fed a bunch of lies.😉

Ok, let's all take you as sole authority and no one shall oppose your statements. Because you have many hard drives of many TBs of reference that you are not able to share.

 

An academic paper PDF would be 5-10 MB.

"Many TBs", so you must have at very least 200,000 reference material stashed away.

If only the world can learn of that knowledge!

/s

 

But then, I'm sure a quick google should hit at least a few of your vast collection?

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=ev+banned+in+apartment+building

First result: reddit post regarding banning EV charging in apartments, reason is billing

Second result: UK charging legislation. Is the flat in question will never, ever going do major renovation?

Quote

Residential buildings undergoing a major renovation which will have more than 10 parking spaces must have at least one EV chargepoint per dwelling with associated parking, along with cable routes in all spaces without chargepoints.

Third result: nothing about flats banning EV parking

Forth result: again, regarding EV charging hurdles faced by apartment dwellers. Nothing about flats banning EV parking

Fifth result: getting warmer, banning e-bikes. But it's US "Home owner association" thing, rather than UK or insurance related.

Sixth result: someone asking about apartment banning EV's, perfect. But all of the responses speak sense, unlike you.

 

Add UK to the end of search?

Just webpages talks about the UK charging regulation.

 

So if what you claim is true, as toot said,

21 minutes ago, toot said:

There are mainstream media / publishers running anti-EV campaigns so there are going to be plenty articles to find where landlords / factors / local authorities are banning BEV,s or Hybrids or dual fuel vehicles

 

Haymarket publishing group, so Autocar / What car/ Piston Heads which is Michael Heseltine,s company or Heycar that is VW / Daimlers will know which of every manufacturers cars or vans are killing and maiming people in the UK.   So will the Office of National Statistucs, the SMMT, the RAC / AA and Derren Brown so I imagine all the scores on the doors are easily found.   Also the insurers / underwriters know.    Bloody Motability putting wheel chair bound and able bodied people in all these vehicles they offer for much cheapness are conspiring to set or get nations on fire not just to keep them mobile.   Must be why we have a new insurer for Motability card from September.    No warning on the vehicles that the risks are greater in an EV.   Or how much greater the risk of death is travelling in one.    Time that Grant Shapp MP was out on the rounds telling us not to panic and trust him because he has a Tesla and puts all his family and loved ones in EV,s.     More EV hearses are needed on UK roads.   Keep death local.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot

3 hours ago, toot said:

Haymarket publishing group, so Autocar / What car/ Piston Heads which is Michael Heseltine,s company or Heycar that is VW / Daimlers will know which of every manufacturers cars or vans are killing and maiming people in the UK.   So will the Office of National Statistucs, the SMMT, the RAC / AA and Derren Brown so I imagine all the scores on the doors are easily found.   Also the insurers / underwriters know.    Bloody Motability putting wheel chair bound and able bodied people in all these vehicles they offer for much cheapness are conspiring to set or get nations on fire not just to keep them mobile.   Must be why we have a new insurer for Motability card from September.    No warning on the vehicles that the risks are greater in an EV.   Or how much greater the risk of death is travelling in one.    Time that Grant Shapp MP was out on the rounds telling us not to panic and trust him because he has a Tesla and puts all his family and loved ones in EV,s.     More EV hearses are needed on UK roads.   Keep death local.

In past 12 months I have seen zero EV’s on fire.

 

I have seen at least half a dozen fires from ICE cars/vans, one of which may have been a hybrid.

 

Petrol is bleeding nasty when it goes up.

 

For a bit of clarity:

 

Felicity Ace:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60429584

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicity_Ace

 

No clarity if it was one of the small number of EV or the larger number of ICE that started the fire

 

Fremantle Highway :

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Fremantle_Highway

 

”

Investigations 

There has been much speculation that the battery pack from an electric car caused the fire.[17] However, the cause of the fire is unknown.[18] Investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven.[16][19]”

 

 

 

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by cheezemonkhai

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

In past 12 months I have seen zero EV’s on fire.

 

I have seen at least half a dozen fires from ICE cars/vans, one of which may have been a hybrid.

 

Petrol is bleeding nasty when it goes up.

 

For a bit of clarity:

 

Felicity Ace:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60429584

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicity_Ace

 

No clarity if it was one of the small number of EV or the larger number of ICE that started the fire

 

Fremantle Highway :

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Fremantle_Highway

 

”

Investigations 

There has been much speculation that the battery pack from an electric car caused the fire.[17] However, the cause of the fire is unknown.[18] Investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven.[16][19]”

 

 

 

Correct, it is not certain what caused either fires but crew members of the Fremantle Highway are supposed to have said that it was started by an EV though and judging by the inside photos of the aftermath it will be difficult to confirm either way. An interesting fact though, both the Felicity Ace and the Fremantle Highway had both departed the same port in Germany and were carrying German cars which included EVs. FA had both VW and Audi EVs, numbers not disclosed, and the FH also had EVs but so far what make has not been revealed, but it was originally claimed it only had 25 on board but was subsequently increased to 498 on board.  

 

Also of interest YMMV, is that there has been fires on board such ships in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2 in 2019, 2020, 2022, and 2 in 2023. 

26 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Correct, it is not certain what caused either fires but crew members of the Fremantle Highway are supposed to have said that it was started by an EV though and judging by the inside photos of the aftermath it will be difficult to confirm either way. An interesting fact though, both the Felicity Ace and the Fremantle Highway had both departed the same port in Germany and were carrying German cars which included EVs. FA had both VW and Audi EVs, numbers not disclosed, and the FH also had EVs but so far what make has not been revealed, but it was originally claimed it only had 25 on board but was subsequently increased to 498 on board.  

 

Also of interest YMMV, is that there has been fires on board such ships in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2 in 2019, 2020, 2022, and 2 in 2023. 

There have been fires on ships since ships began.

 

Engine fires, cargo fires, petrol car fires, random goods.

 

Frankly the first ship was full of high end cars and a few EV. It’s just as likely that brake fluid leaked onto something hot, or petrol vapour filled an area as it is an EV. Speculation on all fronts is just that.

 

So EV fires can run away when they’re bad, but how many petrol cars catch fire and are serviceable rather than a total write off afterwards?

 

There are far fewer causes for an EV to catch fire vs cars full of flammable hydrocarbons. Putting one out might be better understood but that wasn’t always the case and won’t always be the case as technology changes. That’s fire fighting research and tech but also battery changes.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by cheezemonkhai

Latest I've seen about cause of FH fire

 

https://www.electrive.com/2023/08/14/it-wasnt-an-ev-that-caused-the-fremantle-highway-to-catch-fire/

I see in the comments someone posted about the electric MINI Coopers on level 8 which were loaded at Bristol. 

Watch out, according to Graham's logic, it's a death trap 😜

2 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

There have been fires on ships since ships began.

 

Engine fires, cargo fires, petrol car fires, random goods.

 

Frankly the first ship was full of high end cars and a few EV. It’s just as likely that brake fluid leaked onto something hot, or petrol vapour filled an area as it is an EV. Speculation on all fronts is just that.

 

So EV fires can run away when they’re bad, but how many petrol cars catch fire and are serviceable rather than a total write off afterwards?

 

There are far fewer causes for an EV to catch fire vs cars full of flammable hydrocarbons. Putting one out might be better understood but that wasn’t always the case and won’t always be the case as technology changes. That’s fire fighting research and tech but also battery changes.

I 100% agree with what you say, and I never said that it was an EV that started any of these ship fires, so perhaps everyone can now delete that thought from their minds, please.

 

However, it is still a fact that when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway they are exceedingly dangerous and the venting gases are not only highly toxic but burn like a rocket motor shooting flames out sideways, igniting anything within range. The internet is awash with reports and videos from all over the world from fire brigades explaining the problems that these vehicles create, normal car fires can be extinguished with ease, sadly that is not the case with EV and also leave behind massive volumes of highly toxic water etc that also adds further issues

 

EV cars are LESS likely to catch fire than a ICE car, but when they do, they can be a real nightmare to deal with, surely people can see that for themselves.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

All the EVs on the Freemantle Highway are largely undamaged, maybe a bit of a smoky smell, might need a couple of air fresheners.

 

 

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

I 100% agree with what you say, and I never said that it was an EV that started any of these ship fires, so perhaps everyone can now delete that thought from their minds, please.

 

However, it is still a fact that when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway they are exceedingly dangerous and the venting gases are not only highly toxic but burn with the velocity of a rocket motor shooting flames out sideways, igniting anything within range. The internet is awash with reports and videos from all over the world from fire brigades explaining the problems that these vehicles create, normal car fires can be extinguished with ease, sadly that is not the case with EV and also leave behind massive volumes of highly toxic water etc that also adds further issues

 

EV cars are LESS likely to catch fire than a ICE car, but when they do, they can be a real nightmare to deal with, surely people can see that for themselves.

 

Not that difficult, just need a proper blanket deployed.

 

 

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Not that difficult, just need a proper blanket deployed.

 

 

Oh good grief, in order to do that before anything else is brought into the fire, you have to get the blanket there, you have to have good access all round the vehicle and you still need  thousands of litres of water to keep the entire blanket cooled. The blanket does not starve the fire of oxygen as some may think as the battery chemicals release vast amounts of oxygen as part of the fire. All the blanket is doing is trying to prevent the fire spreading any further.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

46 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

All the EVs on the Freemantle Highway are largely undamaged, maybe a bit of a smoky smell, might need a couple of air fresheners.

 

 

He also said that there was a strong chance that EV cars had nothing to with the fire, it has not been proved to be the case.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

42 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Watch out, according to Graham's logic, it's a death trap 😜

Oh for goodness’ sake, stop taking everything out of context, please.

1 hour ago, toot said:

I see in the comments someone posted about the electric MINI Coopers on level 8 which were loaded at Bristol. 

Is that a fact then, all the reports I have seen suggest that it was all loaded up in Germany, no mention of the UK.

5 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Fremantle Highway :

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Fremantle_Highway

 

”

Investigations 

There has been much speculation that the battery pack from an electric car caused the fire.[17] However, the cause of the fire is unknown.[18] Investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven.[16][19]”

 

 

 

If this speculation about investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven are correct, then it begs the question as to why was it allowed to sail?

@Graham ButcherI do not know which ships take in the Mazda and Dacia ICE & Hybrids and BEV,s and other manufacturers models  into Bristol Port and unload and then load Jaguar Land Rovers and others and if MINI,s get loaded before a ship might head to the Continent to get loaded some more.

@lol-lolmight just know.

 

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot

9 hours ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherWhat are they not reporting, UK car crashes and accidents and none accidents and burning to death in an EV,

or people topping themselves in a vehicle?

 

On the car parking!

There are mainstream media / publishers running anti-EV campaigns so there are going to be plenty articles to find where landlords / factors / local authorities are banning BEV,s or Hybrids or dual fuel vehicles, or camper vans with Gas Bottles from their premises.

 

Or ferries or tunnel operators banning / restricting them travelling on or through.

 

It is a brave new world dawning. 

  Space trips to the moon and beyond happening and peoples daily drives are 'death traps' and fire hazards that need parked in open spaces away from anyone and everything else. 

I was clearly referring to people killing themselves via car exhausts being fed into the cabin via hosepipes etc.

 

And also the parking in open spaces was as mentioned, for damaged cars awaiting repairs after being involved in accidents, not normal parking. 😠

8 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherI do not know which ships take in the Mazda and Dacia ICE & Hybrids and BEV,s and other manufacturers models  into Bristol Port and unload and then load Jaguar Land Rovers and others and if MINI,s get loaded before a ship might head to the Continent to get loaded some more.

@lol-lolmight just know.

 

So why the mention of the minis being loaded onto level 8 then?

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher You quoted 46 minutes ago what i typed about in the comments someone posted about the electric MINI Cooper loaded on deck 8 at Bristol.

 

Are we all dealing with a full deck here? 

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot

@tootI thought it was a wind up 🤣

Just to point out that before automatic fuel cut off and specialist foams for fighting them ICE fires were terrible.

 

I would imagine a lot of research will go into how to stop such fires in EV.  Maybe they’ll discover dry ice or liquid nitrogen is the answer to stop thermal runaway. Buildings get dry risers, maybe Batteries will get similar channels to distribute something that will take the heat energy away fast.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I was clearly referring to people killing themselves via car exhausts being fed into the cabin via hosepipes etc.

 

Which hasn't actually always worked as a suicide device since catalytic converters became mandatory on new cars.

Just as well there are those vehicles around that are MOT & VED exempt by age. 

Clearly there had to be a good reason for the UK Governments introducing such a scheme. 

 

............

There is already a lot of EV,s & EV batteries being transported around the globe in ships and on rail and by road let alone those being driven in vehicles.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot