24 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Older cars are targeted by organised criminals to sell for spare parts. There’s huge demand for used parts for less than new, so they Nick the popular older cars and flog them as parts. Cleaned money.

 

In Birmingham they’re even taking parts off cars whilst parked up for a few hours to sell.

Yes, I've seen reports about bonnets and bumpers being removed, so that might account for the fiestas in my area, but I've yet to hear of a focus being taken, maybe it is the sporty versions that are being targeted? 

46 minutes ago, toot said:

You are a haver.  You seem to know so little about crime it is unreal. 

Just see what vehicles are being searched for for those that shot or attacked someone, fire bombed or what ever.

More often than not for Glasgow it is a Skoda. 

 

As to high value cars,

Many of these vehicles are owned by financial institutions.    They are lased cars, offshore workers cars, all sorts of people.

 

How long are people parking there expensive or inexpensive EV,s rapid charging, or are they fast charging at Park & Rides etc

 

All very very strange, where there is EV charging there is electricity, storage batteries and controllers, odd to have no security cameras. 

Down this end of the country, that does not seem to be the situation at all. Skoda still seems to be largely snubbed by lots of people. I have a family member working in the crown court and never heard anything that being mentioned in courts. Maybe we shouldn't draw conclusions between parts of the country.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The point about gas v bev vehicles in that report that I found to be very interesting was a comment made in the comments section quoted below, which as I pointed in a much earlier post ties in very nicely with my own finding when I was working with buses where the rear-engined buses from other depots were having engine fires where the identical buses that I was looking after did not suffer from any fires. The difference I discovered between them, when the bus company asked to go and have a look at what was happening at these other depots. What I discovered was that they were all due to a general lack of keeping the engines clean. The engines were horizontal beneath the floor and mounted at the rear to keep prop shafts etc as short as possible. Oil would get spilled when doing maintenance, jubilee clips would work loose or even break if over tightened and oil could slowly seep out and sit in small puddles on the engine castings and this would get overheated, and catch fire and as the engine covers that formed the flooring above the engine was made from wood this would also catch fire and then the whole of the rear end of the bus would be destroyed in the fire.

 

The alternator, the starter motor was also located on the top of the horizontal mounted engine and to make my life easier as the auto electrical engineer for the garage, I would take the bus to the high pressure cleaner before driving it over inspection pits, so the mechanics could get to work on the mechanicals while I did all the electrical work. As a result, the engines on the buses and coaches never had this build up of oil on them to overheat and burst into fire. These other garages then started to implement the regular engine washes, which they hadn't done before because they had to remove the covers and the washing splashed the bus seats etc. But the Buses also had a thorough cleaning by a team of cleaners, so the splashing didn't matter anyway once the service had been completed, and prior to the final road test and sign off by myself.

 

 

Brett Bellmores

December 29, 2022 at 6:15 am

” Less than 2 percent start in the fuel tank or lines.” “Most fires originate within the vehicle, such as a broken fuel line coming into contact with an overheated engine.”

This is a common misunderstanding of what goes on in a car fire. Car fires are normally initiated by a large OIL leak, not a fuel leak. (Diesel cars can be an exception here.) Ignition of fuel typically happens after the oil starts the fire, if it happens at all. (Remember, the fuel is usually stored at the opposite end of the vehicle from the engine, on purpose.)

The ignition temperature of gasoline is way above its boiling point; (535F vs 158F for summer gas.) If you leak gasoline onto a hot surface, the exhaust manifold, say, evaporation keeps it from igniting unless an ignition source (Open flame, sparks.) is already present.

By contrast, the ignition temperature of oil is roughly the same as its boiling point: Oil spilled on a hot surface will ignite before it boils away.

So almost all “car-B-q’s” start as oil fires, not fuel fires. And most of them stay that way.

 

 

 

 

Good article but would like the temperatures in Kelvin rather than Fahrenheit.

This popped upon my phone from the Briskoda members youtube channel/

 

 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

A lot of people won’t go EV due to downtime. I couldn’t make it work with a 400v car due to my business travel, so I am limited to the highest speed chargers and some hope when working. 
Getting people out of ice is the goal here, hence when I said hybrid I kept it range extender electric drive only.

 

BEV vs FCEV is the secondary debate of what is best vs good and the answer won’t be the same for everyone. Time does matter.

I'd have thought, in your case, it's better to aim for reliable rapid charging rather than hope can start charging when you get there. Reliability vs a few minute difference in rapid charging speed.

 

It's funny, I refer hydrogen FC as best solution that isn't ready. Whereas you are referring it as good solution. Indeed, solutions has their pros and cons for different people who value things differently.

 

I believe the monetary benefit will outweigh degradation. But I've nothing to prove this as V2G/H is so new.

 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Thing is though, it’s almost not at all about efficiency and hugely about localised air pollution.

 

As I said elsewhere I’d use excess wind to make green hydrogen, store and sell for transport and keep some to make electricity for the grid in low generation days. Even with blue (and a few years notice plan for a suitable tax on blue for price parity plus a bit with green) the CO2 being captured is better than it going in the atmosphere along with NOx and PM from petrol and diesel.

Local air pollution is a very immediate problem along with CO2 and if people don’t want a car with a plug, I’d rather get them a step closer until battery/technology improves generally.

Fair point. My problem with any colour other than green hydrogen is the involvement with fossil fuel. it's the same argument levelled against EV's: the long tailpipe.  Yet, as you pointed out, hydrogen have the same potential as EV where the pollution is at the factory and can be switched over to renewable.

 

But isn't it better to do everything right the first time, with large rollout of slow charging installations to enable people experience benefits using a plug? People who don't want a car with a plug is mainly due to not able to experience the benefits. Solve this and hydrogen will be a very niche product.

  

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That puts me in a unique position where I can view things with zero influences on me

The problem is, your position is limited to looking into a completely new way of motoring. You would be much more knowledgeable and credible if you have had prior EV ownership experience.

 

I find this video contains good information, talking about the new Birmingham charging hub with 150 slow chargers and 30 rapid charging spots. Video explains use-cases for why people would use slow charging over rapid charging and what they would do while the car is slow charging.

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

most people think it only really happens to more desirable high value cars

 

I don't think you speak for most people on that one, certainly not people who have had their vehicle stolen, the vast majority are stolen because they are popular, the parts in demand and can easily be sold on, exactly the point Toot made about where did the (second hand) parts come from before the internet.

 

For joyriding by an idiot perhaps, an idiot who doesn't realise that "drive it like you stole it" is exactly what you should not do especially with a desirable high value car unless you want to serve time, its been decades since joyriders have been easily able to steal a vehicle whatever their value.

 

Frankly in the modern world I am surprised that even one person would think the above unless they have been living in a cave for several decades.

6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

I don't think you speak for most people on that one, certainly not people who have had their vehicle stolen, the vast majority are stolen because they are popular, the parts in demand and can easily be sold on, exactly the point Toot made about where did the (second hand) parts come from before the internet.

 

For joyriding by an idiot perhaps, an idiot who doesn't realise that "drive it like you stole it" is exactly what you should not do especially with a desirable high value car unless you want to serve time, its been decades since joyriders have been easily able to steal a vehicle whatever their value.

 

Frankly in the modern world I am surprised that even one person would think the above unless they have been living in a cave for several decades.

Well, I think that is because, like you and the others here are doing, going by local events near us all. In this area the cars mainly seem to be Fiestas, Range Rovers, Jags, Mercedes Benz and BMW's that are the ones being nicked, and often being caught on CCTV doing it. Yes joyriding is thankfully becoming a thing of the past, no longer do I come across on a regular basis the burnt shell of someone's once pride and joy and that is no doubt thanks to the improved security of modern cars.

 

As to second-hand parts prior to the internet, all of my parts came from the dealers for the cars that I owned or did work on for friends and family. Only once did I source a second-hand part, and that was an engine to replace a seized one in a Transit van that I rescued just before the company that owned it went bankrupt. That engine I took out of a V4 Zephyr that had suffered a rear end shunt and that came from a local scrapyard.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

  

The problem is, your position is limited to looking into a completely new way of motoring. You would be much more knowledgeable and credible if you have had prior EV ownership experience.

 

I find this video contains good information, talking about the new Birmingham charging hub with 150 slow chargers and 30 rapid charging spots. Video explains use-cases for why people would use slow charging over rapid charging and what they would do while the car is slow charging.

 

I don't see the relevance about not having had any prior experience of EV ownership makes to the discussion at all, that is a complete red herring or are thinking that if I had, then I would become another EV footsoldier in favour of EV's. I have already said that if I were to drive one, that I fully expect that I'd love it because of its instant torque and its quietness or did you not see that post in reply to toot. I don't see anything personally to hate, as long as it had conventional switches and knobs and none that touch screen malarkey which can be extremely hit-and-miss at times, even with market leaders like Apple products. The biggest single drawback is not having the ability to home charge.

 

With this video, yes it is great to see that happening but from experience having been to many exhibitions at the NEC both as a visitor and also as an exhibitor, is that that facility be fully blocked for the entire duration when there is an major event taking place which would mean that anyone just passing be might be out of luck. It is to be welcomed though I admit, it is a step in the right direct but at 85p KW it is expensive. He also said in the video that the chargers had a canopy over them, and yet he showed row upon row of 7KW chargers that were out in the open?

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

21 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

With this video, yes it is great to see that happening but from experience having been to many exhibitions at the NEC both as a visitor and also as an exhibitor, is that that facility be fully blocked for the entire duration when there is an major event taking place which would mean that anyone just passing be might be out of luck. It is to be welcomed though I admit, it is a step in the right direct but at 85p KW it is expensive. He also said in the video that the chargers had a canopy over them, and yet he showed row upon row of 7KW chargers that were out in the open?

See, this is the kind of knowledge you wouldn't know until you actually live with EV and needed to rely on different charging speed. This isn't about driving one for 30min to see how they drive.

 

i've already covered this previously: 7 kW slow charger (correct technical name is actually fast, but we all know in modern day it's considered slow relative to today's battery) is for destination charging, bookable. The rapid chargers are for en-route charging, not parking spaces and wouldn't be used as part of car park.

 

Rapid chargers look to be under cover. Parking spaces with bonus charging are not.

22 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

See, this is the kind of knowledge you wouldn't know until you actually live with EV and needed to rely on different charging speed. This isn't about driving one for 30min to see how they drive.

 

i've already covered this previously: 7 kW slow charger (correct technical name is actually fast, but we all know in modern day it's considered slow relative to today's battery) is for destination charging, bookable. The rapid chargers are for en-route charging, not parking spaces and wouldn't be used as part of car park.

 

Rapid chargers look to be under cover. Parking spaces with bonus charging are not.

I have seen some rapid chargers that have no cover so that again is a red herring . When you take a car out on a road test when you are considering the purchase of any new car, they don't give the option of living with the car for a few days before making your mind up, do they?

 

The closest I ever got to that was when I was driving a Passat as my company car and was already on my third in 9 years when the Superb was released in the UK and Škoda UK actually offered me one on an extended 2-day test drive through a Škoda dealer I was friends with, and now I'm on 5th Superb.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

You get 24 hour road tests, pre covid weekend road tests were common.   You can hire EV,s cheap enough, get Car Club EV,s etc.

 

Most Rapid chargers in Scotland had no covers / canopies until hubs were built that do have them, then often with solar canopies.

Muppets even face charger screens where they get cooked by the sun through the hottest hours of the day because they are not bright enough to consider the brightness of the sun and how a little shade helps or some cover just to keep a touch screen & RFDI area dry.

Bleached out screens are common. 

 

 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

just looking thru' some interesting thoughts 

here 

 

then this question jumped i to my head 

 

would you be ok sitting in an EV whilst it was charging ... to not fear a flame moment ? 

Well i am still here and unless out talking i am sitting charging with heated seat on. 

Van drivers have breaks, taxi drivers sit in, eat and sleep, business people / reps do their work while charging. 

 

Charge Place Scotland call centre when people call because they can not get a charger started go through a Script sheet.

 

Close doors and windows and lock the car.    I and others tell them. there are people / animals in the car, it is peeing dowm so just remote start if you can.

Then you get, please do as i say,

Then we can not Remote Start this charger.  Which we know before calling, because the system is crap. 

 

 

..........

Re video below. there is a brave new world, and new administration , new app, linked, lots new and yet the same old same old with the phoning in.

.........................

32 local authorities do their own thing and some do not use SWARCO for maintenance, thankfully.

Charge Place Scotland do not own chargers. & SWARCO have the contract to run CPS currently, it was BP and SWARCO run it for them.

SWarco own e-Volt for manufacturing chargers. SWARCO do maintenance where they have contracts.

What a Transport Scotland / SNP love in all this is. over 60 million quid in 12 years and that is just what we know for what is a bl00dy fiasco.

Lovely hubs someplaces,guess the contractors? Guess which Party rules those local authorities where the big spends are?

 

How do they let us know?  They keep telling us how good they are.

The App is often so laggy on a mobile at chargers it is unreal, even right in cities, in the countyside / hills you can be stuffed.

http://chargeplacescotland.org

 

 

The worst of all is the Traffic Scotland / Transport Scotland current site listing chargers in some random order, it says MAP option.

Never found yet the Chargers on the Map.  Current incidents, road works, snow gate closures, life traffic cameras but no Mapof EV sites.

https://traffic.gov.scot/traffic-information/ev-charging-points

Try that on a phone and see if you can find chargers if you do not know an area and are just visiting. Try it on a computer.

 

 

 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

50 minutes ago, promomast said:

just looking thru' some interesting thoughts 

here 

 

then this question jumped i to my head 

 

would you be ok sitting in an EV whilst it was charging ... to not fear a flame moment ? 

 Even I can answer that one for you, and I don't have an EV, yes you should be totally safe despite some of the posts you might have seen here, some of which are probably posted by me. The truth that EV's are in fact currently less likely to catch fire than a normal car of the same age.

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well, I think that is because, like you and the others here are doing, going by local events near us all

 

There you go again, extrapolating your own beliefs onto others.

 

There is zero crime where I live, I do not lock my doors or gates and have 3 Ifor Williams trailers visible from the road, yet there is massive vehicle, trailer and plant crime in every surrounding commune extending out for 100kms, in fact radiating out from my commune, here is the first place the Police look when anything is stolen.

 

Were I to use your logic I would believe that crime does not exist anywhere because there is none here.

 

 

From battery technology point of view, charging and when damaged are the top 2 scenarios where it is most likely to catch fire. 

 

I have a fireproof pouch for charging hobby drone batteries. BMS in EV is a lot more sophisticated than drone battery charger. So chance of EV catching fire during charging is very low. 

 

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

When you take a car out on a road test when you are considering the purchase of any new car, they don't give the option of living with the car for a few days before making your mind up, do they?

Indeed most don't. Dealership also rarely talk about charging when handing over. So we end up with very poorly informed drivers in the wild, I've seen more than a handful of Leaf owners waiting at rapid charger for 100% even though charge rate has slowed down a lot to not worth the time near the end. 

 

Tesla owners club run an introduction event out of goodness of their heart (club gets no funding from manufacturer, free webinar). It goes over different types of charging extensively.  https://teslaowners.org.uk/events/owner-induction-evening

 

There used to be an EV experience centre in Milton Keynes to borrow a car for longer, something like 5 days (?) Still not representative of ownership experience, but much closer than a simple test drive.  

Anger this morning at the community hospital charger.  The NHS bays where occupied all weekend with their cars.  They have put up notices that they are theirs.  One of their cars blocked bay next to A socket that has never worked for me anyway but seems to for NHS users. Not that I have ever seen them when plugged in drawing power.  Anyway B was available early.  I will move if a NHS car or worker turns up.   There has been a notice posted by a member of the public in the charger about being a public charger.  Well yes it is.  But the NHS is paying for the electricity, and if there was maintenance that.  (I know public money but use ones brain)  So anyway out comes hospital soneone from admin and removed the notice. As they do.  Ignored me. Normally the ones I know chat about the abusers here including ICEing.   But I had already posted replies in zapmap and Plugshare moaning about the situation, this was to explain what happens here and the charging is free and abused.   At about this point one who abuses the chargers, comes here and abandons their car and heads off someplace for the day pulls up, opens their window and says am I going to be long? Yes I said 3 hours.  Not happy bunny.    5 mins later up pulls a staff member looking to charge.  I give them wave and get out and move.    I expect abuse from the lovely looking lady with the gob and with her brand new SUV  EV that thinks this charger is for her free use and not really just visitors to the hospital.  

 

 

Edited 11 September, 20232 yr by toot

33 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

There you go again, extrapolating your own beliefs onto others.

 

There is zero crime where I live, I do not lock my doors or gates and have 3 Ifor Williams trailers visible from the road, yet there is massive vehicle, trailer and plant crime in every surrounding commune extending out for 100kms, in fact radiating out from my commune, here is the first place the Police look when anything is stolen.

 

Were I to use your logic I would believe that crime does not exist anywhere because there is none here.

 

 

Wow, how on earth did you arrive at that pearl of wisdom. All I said was that I can only speak and comment on what happens in my local area, therefore is it not unreasonable to expect that others are also expressing their local conditions. I'm not an expert on your apparently crime free area, nor am I on events in North London, Scotland, Wales or anywhere else, therefore I can only accept that others are telling me is for their local area, which funnily enough is precisely what I did, and I quote "In this area the cars mainly seem to be Fiestas, Range Rovers, Jags, Mercedes Benz and BMW's that are the ones being nicked, and often being caught on CCTV doing it." To avoid any doubt, this area is of course Chelmsford, Essex, England, UK.

 

So please explain just how that is extrapolating your own beliefs onto others Would you like me to post evidence to that effect to you so you can verify it is correct ?

 

43 minutes ago, toot said:

 I expect abuse from the lovely looking lady with the gob and with her brand new SUV  EV that thinks this charger is for her free use and not really just visitors to the hospital.  

Grrr, some people are the worst. More importantly, free stuff never works from ensuring good level of service point of view. 

 

When Ecotricity Electric Highway machine had been on free-vend, people flock to it and what used to be reliable quiet 2 charger location becomes unreliable for charging. 

 

The charge point in Asda next to Leicester space museum are also free. There's always DPD vans hogging them. I'd happily pay and use it as destination charging when I'm visiting the museum, so I don't need to think about en-route charging. EV are easiest when making full use of destination charging. 

55 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Wow, how on earth did you arrive at that pearl of wisdom. All I said was that I can only speak and comment on what happens in my local area, therefore is it not unreasonable to expect that others are also expressing their local conditions. I'm not an expert on your apparently crime free area, nor am I on events in North London, Scotland, Wales or anywhere else, therefore I can only accept that others are telling me is for their local area, which funnily enough is precisely what I did, and I quote "In this area the cars mainly seem to be Fiestas, Range Rovers, Jags, Mercedes Benz and BMW's that are the ones being nicked, and often being caught on CCTV doing it." To avoid any doubt, this area is of course Chelmsford, Essex, England, UK.

 

So please explain just how that is extrapolating your own beliefs onto others Would you like me to post evidence to that effect to you so you can verify it is correct ?

 

I'm happy to explain but surprised that I should need to as I was quoting your words which you now seem to have forgotten.

 

"All I said was that I can only speak and comment on what happens in my local area" was not all that you said, what you said was:

 

"Well, I think that is because, like you and the others here are doing, going by local events near us all. In this area the cars mainly seem to be Fiestas, Range Rovers, Jags, Mercedes Benz and BMW's that are the ones being nicked,"

 

 

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

I'm happy to explain but surprised that I should need to as I was quoting your words which you now seem to have forgotten.

 

"All I said was that I can only speak and comment on what happens in my local area" was not all that you said, what you said was:

 

"Well, I think that is because, like you and the others here are doing, going by local events near us all. In this area the cars mainly seem to be Fiestas, Range Rovers, Jags, Mercedes Benz and BMW's that are the ones being nicked,"

 

 

And is that not what you were doing when you said your area was crime free then?🙄

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Were I to use your logic I would believe that crime does not exist anywhere because there is none here.

 

 

I have dealt with more rational chatbots than you 😀

 

Not taking the bait any more, the last word as ever is yours.

23 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I'd have thought, in your case, it's better to aim for reliable rapid charging rather than hope can start charging when you get there. Reliability vs a few minute difference in rapid charging speed.

My hope is that the rapid chargers are free and working. The 350s seem to better than most, but far from perfect. Presently I assume no destination charging, but it’ll be nice if every parking  space got 16/32 Amp type 2.

23 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

It's funny, I refer hydrogen FC as best solution that isn't ready. Whereas you are referring it as good solution. Indeed, solutions has their pros and cons for different people who value things differently.

 

I believe the monetary benefit will outweigh degradation. But I've nothing to prove this as V2G/H is so new.

 

Fair point. My problem with any colour other than green hydrogen is the involvement with fossil fuel. it's the same argument levelled against EV's: the long tailpipe.  Yet, as you pointed out, hydrogen have the same potential as EV where the pollution is at the factory and can be switched over to renewable.

 

But isn't it better to do everything right the first time, with large rollout of slow charging installations to enable people experience benefits using a plug? People who don't want a car with a plug is mainly due to not able to experience the benefits. Solve this and hydrogen will be a very niche product.

Hydrogen fuel cells have worked for a long while, it’s the infrastructure that needs to catch up in the Uk (Familiar theme)

 

Your point of doing it right first time is one view, the other would be regular smaller steps to get benefit as quickly as possible.

 

Ability to recharge is a headache for many, so taking petrol/diesel and replacing it with hydrogen is a step. Fuel tax at two rates one for green a much higher for blue should help.

 

I agree neither are perfect, my preference is getting people off ice ASAP.

I seem to recall seeing a few London Transport buses driving around on trail that said they were Hydrogen fuelled, and unless I'm mistaken Honda had some experimental staff cars that were also Hydrogen powered a few years back.