Aberdeen busses are hydrogen, and bin lorries and other vehicle. There are 2 filling stations for them.

Like in Fife where there are a fleet of hydrogen vans.

But then there is plenty excess electricity to produce Green Hydrogen there.   There are hydrogen filling stations, just not enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 September, 20232 yr by toot

Just heard that a supposed market leader and the future of car hire / club has gone into administration. So what the hell happened there then? Could be some cheap EV's on the market anytime soon.

 

All-Inclusive Electric Car Subscriptions | Onto

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

That Subscription set up had so many things going against it, but some money behind it from people with plenty of it.

 

..............

If these can actually go 435 miles even if only in the most ideal conditions they might interest more towards Stellantis EV,s

 

 

 

One door closes, another door opens.  It is only money, other peoples mone.

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by toot

Why is that these people seem to hate Tesla's, car envy or what? The world is full of bleeding muppets.

 

 

For the same reason many here hated BMW divers.

That new 3008 car looks nice but I think that 21" curved display would drive my local dealers MOT tester nuts as he couldn't mention as an advisory to remove items obscuring his vision. 😉

9 minutes ago, toot said:

For the same reason many here hated BMW divers.

 

I think you use the past tense a little prematurely  

 

I have to say I dislike Teslas though. I like that they moved on the EV game substantially (even though I am not a fan of EVs) and their motors and batteries were a game changer in the early days. But the shonky build quality and imho, ridiculous interiors, just plain wind me up (give me some buttons for goodness’ sake, I hate these big screens that 'do-it-all'). I'm not a fan of the styling either, although the S model has grown on me a little over the years. 

 

 

That range shown for the e-3008 with the smaller 73 kWh battery or the 98 kWh are on them getting 4.4 miles to the kWh. 

So that is not going to be colder weather near freezing with the car loaded and heating on an no steaming up windows. 

As someone who drives a Peugeot with a couple of electric motors in it, I can safely say Peugeot massively overstate the range of their 3008 PHEV! I'd take their figures with a large pinch of salt. It's a very pleasant car to spend time in, properly French comfy  but not quite the PHEV range that I hoped for.

1 minute ago, Lady Elanore said:

As someone who drives a Peugeot with a couple of electric motors in it, I can safely say Peugeot massively overstate the range of their 3008 PHEV! I'd take their figures with a large pinch of salt. It's a very pleasant car to spend time in, properly French comfy  but not quite the PHEV range that I hoped for.

Much the same thing really with ICE cars as well, very few actually get close to their claimed range.

Funny thing is I have beaten quoted ICE figures regularly with high performance cars. Admittedly, it's usually on long motorway trips, but anything over 30mpg on a car with over 500bhp is a pleasant surprise. My old M4 could reach mid 30s mpg on a long run ( WLTP 28.5 mpg ). I sold a Corvette C4 (5.7 V8) to a chap who was driving it from Manchester to his home on the South coast. I told him he could get 30mpg out of it if he kept to 70mph. He rang me once he got home to say he had managed 30mpg and was more than happily surprised. 

2 hours ago, toot said:

That range shown for the e-3008 with the smaller 73 kWh battery or the 98 kWh are on them getting 4.4 miles to the kWh. 

So that is not going to be colder weather near freezing with the car loaded and heating on an no steaming up windows. 

That 98kWh model would be interesting, particularly if it has 800v batteries.

If they offer that in Stallantis vans they will be getting someplace.  People would be able to have AWD EV Camper vans and maybe the utility companies and emergency use them for their needs.

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by toot

15 minutes ago, toot said:

If they offer that in Stallantis vans they will be getting someplace.  People would be able to have AWD EV Camper vans and maybe the utility companies and emergency use them for their needs.

Van they could probably even stretch to larger capacity say 100kWh standard and 150kW LR both on 350Kw capable platforms.

 

weight/cost would be a factor of course.

 

400 miles is a car is probably 250 in a van so 250 to 375 mile ranges (at a price) would likely clean up as Citroen/Peugeot vans.

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by cheezemonkhai

They are 50 or 75 kWh now.

 

As for the Stellantis MPV,s that are 50 kWh and have only 7 kw on board chargers not even 11 kW ac (an option) they are a damn joke really for what some leased them for.

That is really down to the Motability Specialist at Dealerships who probably knew no more than the customers in ordering them. 

They might do those that go no place far, but that is not why many want their Freedom, or the family want a suitable vehicle.

They are not suitable.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by toot

I know there's diverse views and perspectives in this thread, so I thought this would be the best place to ask.

 

What's your view on 2030 ban, what level of hybrid do you think will be allowed after 2030? What would be the minimum EV range required?

(assuming it goes ahead, most manufacturers are offering mild hybrid now)

 

In case you need a refresher: https://motorlease.com/article/hybrid-vehicle-types/

 

 

 

You know my views on hybrids: electric drive only, only hybrid I'd accept is serial range extender hybrid (i3 REx). But that's just my personal view, and I'm not sure it's achievable. I've not cared for hybrids for a number of reasons, so I'd like to see what other people thinks and I promise I'll respect different views.

11 hours ago, toot said:

They are 50 or 75 kWh now.

As for the Stellantis MPV,s that are 50 kWh and have only 7 kw on board chargers not even 11 kW ac (an option) they are a damn joke really for what some leased them for.

That is really down to the Motability Specialist at Dealerships who probably knew no more than the customers in ordering them. 

They might do those that go no place far, but that is not why many want their Freedom, or the family want a suitable vehicle.

They are not suitable.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

You make a great point.  Some car makers, and Stellantis is probably top of my list of marketing cars which are really bad value for money when one takes account of the failure to use the fast progress in both energy density and also battery chemistry and for Vauxhall Stellantis to be trying to sell the Astra for £40k with a 51kwh battery and the older Lithium Ion tech is incredible.

 

Yes I think they are already offering some 0% financing but such an offering is just stunning considering the value for money offered by other car makers.  

 

I expect we will see a Model 3 for less than £40k soon it avoids the luxury road tax.  For £40k I would be expecting a 75 kWh battery, car with heat pump and lithium iron phosphate battery with charging rate approaching 150 kw or at least 125 kWh for most if not all of the charging curve.  

 

There are always some that get convinced by the sales person to go for the deal but it really does not sound a good deal to me compared to many if not most offerings my other car makers.

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I know there's diverse views and perspectives in this thread, so I thought this would be the best place to ask.

What's your view on 2030 ban, what level of hybrid do you think will be allowed after 2030? What would be the minimum EV range required?

(assuming it goes ahead, most manufacturers are offering mild hybrid now)

In case you need a refresher: https://motorlease.com/article/hybrid-vehicle-types/

You know my views on hybrids: electric drive only, only hybrid I'd accept is serial range extender hybrid (i3 REx). But that's just my personal view, and I'm not sure it's achievable. I've not cared for hybrids for a number of reasons, so I'd like to see what other people thinks and I promise I'll respect different views.

 

Storm in a tea cup.

 

I can hardly imagine a car being make without a bit of hybrid, even in tiny bit like my Arkana which did nearly 70 mpg back from Liverpool yesterday.

Son's Clio ETECH can do over 80 mpg if coaxed using its hybrid system to drive on electric half or even three quarters of the time.

 

The hybrid system on the above two cars seems to add only about £2k on to the retail price over the non hybrid and then as soon as you start running the hybrid it is doing 

5, 10, 15 mpg better than the ICE only car.

 

One would have to be certifiable to even not want a non hybrid as it is better economy pays for itself I would reckon for anybody doing an annual mileage around or above 8k a year and the driving experience is so much better.  Automatic, a whoosh of electric power upon take off.  There is so much to like and little not to.

 

2035 is the real date.  2030 is a non event really in my opinion.

 

Forgive my ignorance in asking this question for I have little interest in hybrids, EVs yes as I'm sure I will have one as a project sometime soon but anything that complicates the already overcomplicated ICE vehicles passes me by.

 

My question is: When people quote the "5, 10, 15 mpg better than the ICE only car." or 80mpg etc does all the battery energy being used come from the regenerative braking etc when running on ICE mode? Does that make it an HEV and not a PHEV?

 

Or do PHEV's make the same claims?

Most of it is a load of kidology to do with getting through WLTP & RDE2 and real world results that have nothing to do with the real world.

 

IMO & IME of trying them Renault / Dacia have 'Mild hybrid' technology nailed if you want to drive their vehicles and drive them in a way that you get very good fuel economy out of these petrol vehicles.

 

Actually they are doing quite well with BEV,s also.     The PHEV,s are there just for helping them with Fleet Average emissions i think and because some customers might actually use them as they can be used and not much liquid fuel used and cheap charging of the battery for short journeys.

Mild hybrid seems like a joke

engine driven hybrid is pointless as you’re carrying a gearbox and drivetrain.

 

For me hybrids should be electric drivetrains, could be petrol/gas even diesel generators and should be able to plug in and charge (AC only) with an electric only range of say 100 miles or 33% of range (whichever is higher). Possibly even  a limit on the weight of the engine/fuel side of it to stop companies dropping in a v6 a big fuel tank and a tiny battery.

@cheezemonkhaiHave you tried a Renault Clio or maybe a Dacia Jogger hybrid?  

25 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Forgive my ignorance in asking this question for I have little interest in hybrids, EVs yes as I'm sure I will have one as a project sometime soon but anything that complicates the already overcomplicated ICE vehicles passes me by.

 

My question is: When people quote the "5, 10, 15 mpg better than the ICE only car." or 80mpg etc does all the battery energy being used come from the regenerative braking etc when running on ICE mode? Does that make it an HEV and not a PHEV?

 

Or do PHEV's make the same claims?

I think WLTP MPG figure for PHEV uses battery power but does not count energy from plugging it in. But that is my suspicion from advertised figures I've seen, rather than hard facts. I think PHEV cannot get quoted MPG when its battery charge runs out and only operate as regular hybrid. Please someone with PHEV experience correct me, @Lady Elanore? 

 

4 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

For me hybrids should be electric drivetrains, could be petrol/gas even diesel generators and should be able to plug in and charge (AC only) with an electric only range of say 100 miles or 33% of range (whichever is higher). Possibly even  a limit on the weight of the engine/fuel side of it to stop companies dropping in a v6 a big fuel tank and a tiny battery.

I'm all for what you suggest, but do you think it's achievable in 2030? 

 

100 miles would mean 30 kWh of battery. Most current cars based on ICE platform are only squeezing in ~15 kWh, with biggest cars having 38 kWh but only 75 miles of range: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2021/10/26/2022-range-rover-unveiled-prices-and-specification

4 minutes ago, toot said:

@cheezemonkhaiHave you tried a Renault Clio or maybe a Dacia Jogger hybrid?  

I’ve seen the clip but no never driven one.

Are they any good if you have?

So easy to get good fuel consumption without driving to hypermile.

I liked the autoboxes and how they are.  The Clio handles great & better than the likes of the Toyota Yaris that is also a fuel sipper.