14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes people are greedy barstewards and inconsiderate, but you are there waiting for your car to charge, why is that? Is it because you need to charge for work the next day, and it is not easy to leave the car, go home and then have to remember to come out again later that night to collect your car before going to bed? That is what some driver/owners would have to do if they can't charge at home. For many that charge would be vital as they have to commute distances to work each day, or are sales reps etc, or people who have out very early in the morning while others are still sleeping as they have to set things up for the rest of society, such those involved in public transport, health etc.

 

These are real life scenes that many are NOT understanding, all I'm asking / saying these need to be understood, but instead, with many people it comes across I don't care about anyone else "I'm alright jack" and that can be seen by those people you describe as being "greedy barstewards" They have got their car on a public charger and "pee'd" off blocking anyone else from making use of the chargers.

 

Is not the solution easy  ?

 

Charging a standing charge, by the minute of being plugged in so that there is a point where ones cost of electricity effectively rises to well over £1 a minute and people will move.    https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/how-many-charging-points

 

2,500 new charge points being added every month and now UK has 76k and that will hit 100K next year whilst petrol stations will start to close or covert as that market for hydrocarbon fuel continue to diminish as with Shell in Fulham...

This Shell station removed all of its gas pumps—now, it’s being called the ‘gas station of the future’  Ben Stern August 14,2023

One London gas station has totally reimagined what a refueling area can look like.  Since the beginning of 2022, a Shell station in Fulham, England, has removed all of its gas pumps to instead offer rapid electric vehicle (EV) chargers for those who need to recharge, as reported by Bloomberg.

https://news.yahoo.com/shell-station-removed-gas-pumps-100000919.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEEU3NqXb2ocOuBg6LlK2WAwUAq2iQ6fvpqLda0GvDWCOc0cLbGMTPNlr0EWf7MyIdz3kq5C7c7JV7GBSOTEHpNJHbysgGaZDviClL1UJ6cDzPFTZmoQ8Y2IlTwiZvPKJtsa-h5W-vaY7K_NWXyCiODhhwIKw9aU6hrXCAchEcFU

 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by lol-lol

@Graham Butcher people take their car or bike or go shanks pony to collect the work car, the car club car or van or whatever.

 

People very much do park up plugged in and head off by bus or tram or train. 

 

There are people that embrace it, know the cost and benefits or otherwise.

Loads hate EV,s want shot of them and will change employers even to not have them.

 

It is the present and the future and a change of lifestyle for many.    Covid coming again anyway and Euro 7 and maybe shortages of materials and vehicles, 

even energy.

 

Energy prices rising and that will be Petrol, Diesel & Electricity.   Que sera sera. 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Very good point that ICE drivers fail to comprehend.

 

This is one of the many factors of non-EV people not understand what the new offering of EVs is.   I can stop at an EV charger and do a quick bit of mental maths, something many English people, I have found are quite poor at, and let us not even go to the place of compound interest, that I can calculate with 5 miles or so how many minutes of charge I need to arrive home with 10% or whatever percentage of charge I feel happy with.  The depth of information I can get on my EV's systems are on a far higher level that my ICE cars.

 

Lithium cars, te out going tech, do not charge as fast over 80% and if I am charging at a public rapid charger I would only put in the kWhs I need which probably means cutting the charge off at just over 50% which gives me the range I probably need to get home.  It is great living in the Midlands, other than not seeing the sea very often, as in the UK I rarely need to add anything more than half a battery charge as I can be back home to get the 2p a mile charging cost.

 

EVs are very efficient at slower speeds so crawling on the M25 approaching Heathrow instead of only being say twice as efficient as an ICE car in transforming store power in to motion the gap becomes even larger and even with ICE cars having start/stop few have devices such as heat pumps.  The only plus of an ICE car is that it produces so much waste heat ie more waste energy in the transfer of heat in to the engine cooling water ie more than it does to the vehicle's traction, and in very cold weather one can use that waste heat to warm up the passengers.  Fortunately this matches when lithium power EVs are not at their best so good to have an ICE car in very cold weather.  That said Norway has the highest percentage of EVs probably in the world and is one of the coldest countries in the world.

 

Judging by the popularity of the EV chargers at my local, actually one district over, EV owners without driveway chargers can find chargers at similar prices to home charging.  We have 26 chargers at the Worcester Parkway railway station at 36p per kWh, a dozen a Spetchley Gardens for 42p/per KWh. Well over 100 chargers for a small city such as Worcester and many more being added each year. 

 

When you have an ICE car one is effectively lining the pockets of Putin and the Saudis and other questionable oil suppliers.   

 

I can't argue with what you have said here, but sadly that situation is not being replicated in many other places across the UK. Have a look at the numbers of tower blocks in London and other large cities and then try and visualise the huge areas and numbers of similarly priced chargers would occupy of highly prized real estate that would fetch millions or maybe billions for developments, which do you think would win the battle for that land, which also has to be within easy reach of those blocks. Are town planners going to completely redesign the cities so that all residential area are outside the city, which would mean greenfield sites, in order to develop housing which allows home charging for those that cannot currently do so?

4 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham Butcher people take their car or bike or go shanks pony to collect the work car, the car club car or van or whatever.

 

People very much do park up plugged in and head off by bus or tram or train. 

 

There are people that embrace it, know the cost and benefits or otherwise.

Loads hate EV,s want shot of them and will change employers even to not have them.

 

It is the present and the future and a change of lifestyle for many.    Covid coming again anyway and Euro 7 and maybe shortages of materials and vehicles, 

even energy.

 

Energy prices rising and that will be Petrol, Diesel & Electricity.   Que sera sera. 

Thieve's paradise, no less. But why do you stay with your car and leave it as other do?

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

39 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The solar company claims that cannot pull the fuse, it has to be the DNO.

This is classic passing the buck. Any qualities electrician can pull the main fuse. I’ve had solar company, EV charger company and regular electrician pulling this fuse. 
 

The thing with slow charging is that it is parking with charging. People are not expected to move their car while parked at any destination. Same apply to slow destination chargers. People do move their car as good etiquette to others when the resource is so limited, but it’s just that, good etiquette. 
 

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

Thieve's paradise, no less.

Stealing what exactly? 

@Graham ButcherBecause i am disabled, a leg amputee with 4 prolapsed discs and the car seat is the comfiest for me. & i can have it on heated.

I used to take my e-Bike with me and go cycling but my back really went bad.

I had a TXT number on the dash with a EVA Scotland card and if someone needed a charge i could return to the car.

 

The Park & Rides and car parks are CCTV'd up. 

Tesla and others have cameras and go near them and they activate.    Scotland has dark and dingy charger hubs, thankfully sometimes because you can go for a pee.

 

I am not aware of Charging Hubs being Dogging Spots' because really they are pretty well monitored one way or another.

25 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Worcester is/was a cheap place to buy.  1997, after the house value collapse of the early and mid nineties, which we are seeing again of course.  4 bedroom detached with single garage, £93k.  Yes now worth 4 times that but I go to my colleagues house in London, worth well over twice my house but a Victorian/Edwardian house and therefore no drive or easy charging option in those streets so one has to adopt the options I describe about or do the dedicated post or street light incorporation of chargers, even 3.6 kWs like I have on my drive.  The options increasingly available is to pop to the numerous public chepaish AC charging places and those who do need to drive stop thinking of reasons not to convert to EVs whilst tens of thousands suffer from poor air quality.

 

Salary sacrifice is the premier UK government scheme currently, not my choice to assist UK EV roll out.  I benefited a couple of years ago from the EV and charger installation financial assistance but they disappeared well over a year ago and now EVs are so much cheaper the EV grant is no longer needed.  I gather some people can get grants, not those with home owners with drives but many other groups.  Again not a problem, I have the charge point fitted on my house and it increases the value of my house, in part thanks to the £500 grant subsidy. 

 

• Electric vehicle chargepoint and infrastructure grants for landlords
  • 27 September 2022
• Electric vehicle chargepoint grant if you own or rent a flat
  • 12 December 2022
• EV infrastructure grant for staff and fleets: customer guidance
  • 21 November 2022
  •  
  • Guidance
• EV chargepoint grant for flat owner-occupiers and people living in rented properties: installer guidance
  • 17 November 2022
  •  
  • Guidance
• EV chargepoint grant for landlords: installer guidance
  • 17 November 2022
  •  
  • Guidance
• EV infrastructure grant for residential car parks: installer guidance
  • 21 November 2022
  •  
  • Guidance
• EV infrastructure grant for staff and fleets: installer guidance
  • 21 November 2022
  •  
  • Guidance

 

When I can see such schemes being implemented near me, I may change my views, but that does not fully solve the issues I fear. Are they going to install street furniture to allow for each car to have a dedicated charger, in other words if the street can normal except for say 40 cars to parked in it on a daily basis that they will install 40 chargers to allow them all to be charged at the same time and without having loads of long cables that then become a hazard for pedestrians and those with poor sight or blind and also of course these cables could and will present shock risks as they become worn or suffer damage.  

 

Also, while Worcester is or was a cheap place to buy, again not everybody earns enough to be even be considered for a mortgage so that is a throwaway statement and is meaningless. If everyone were to move to Worcester in search of a cheap place to buy, the prices would skyrocket overnight. That would be like going back to the days of "Thatcherism", so no, we don't want that ever happening again.

@toot Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable about your personal circumstances, if I did, then I sincerely apologize for that. I can understand why you do stay, I thought you stayed because you needed to have a charged car for the following day etc. 

 

Here in this part of England, there are loads of CCTV but that does not mean that your vehicle is going to be safe as thieves have learnt that the police do not have the resources to follow up or even react if something is seen on these CCTV cameras and monitors. I have links to the local neighbourhood social media group and almost daily there are reports of cars being stolen in view of CCTV equipment, similarly there are cases of being physically and brutally beaten up, in the high-street which is awash with surveillance cameras and just 500yds from the police station and, yet these attacks go on for approaching 30 minutes before emergency services arrive on the scene, so that is of little comfort to car owners in England, hopefully Scotland performs much better in that regard.

@Graham Butcherno problems.  I only charge at AC chargers if free & i am passing time or if needs must waiting to get on a Rapid.

 

?

Why do you think EV,s are more interest to toe rags than an ICE vehicle that is parked in the same places or less recently developed locations? 

There is more chance of being caught by cameras with newer vehicles and especially commercial EV.s

As to stealing the car that is a high risk issue as pretty much all can be tracked until they get disabled. 

 

The key fob or phone app can have a Panic / Attack alarm to activate, 

you know if your alarm goes off, or the vehicle moves.  But that is not just an EV thing.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham Butcherno problems.  I only charge at AC chargers if free & i am passing time or if needs must waiting to get on a Rapid.

 

?

Why do you think EV,s are more interest to toe rags than an ICE vehicle that is parked in the same places or less recently developed locations? 

There is more chance of being caught by cameras with newer vehicles and especially commercial EV.s

As to stealing the car that is a high risk issue as pretty much all can be tracked until they get disabled. 

Don't you fall into the same trap as many others do. The truth of the toe rags is that tend to fall into 2 groups, the opportunist who is more interested in might be in car or the boot and those that are stealing cars to order. Nine times out of ten they steal the car, drive a few miles away to a quiet location and systematically tear the car apart looking for any tracker devices. If they find one, they pull it out toss it, change the plates over and drive off safe in the knowledge that they aren't being tracked. What happens to these vehicles then depends on if they are cars that have a high value overseas, or cars / commercial vehicles that have a high value for their parts here in the UK. If the former, they are quickly placed in shipping containers and shipped overseas, if the latter they are within hours stripped of the valuable parts and the body shell chopped up and disposed off. Stolen cars have been put on sales at dealers overseas without even any attempt to hide its origins as once it is there they is zero hope getting anything done about and the local authorities are not even bothered about it either.

 

On a personal level, can I ask you if you get some free charging as a result of your disability, or is that just something that happens in Scotland? I have yet to see any free chargers in my area of England at least.

16 hours ago, wyx087 said:

This completely misses the point of having batteries. Might as well throw out any cost benefits and go for expensive green hydrogen in fuel cell if you must need direct replacement.

 

Simply take petrol station mentality across to EV charging does not make any sense what so ever. I've mentioned vehicle-2-X and smart charging many times. It is the reason why BEV are very important part of overall energy solution. Renewables generate unpredictably, BEV when parked can help here.

 

EV ownership without driveway is indeed problematic. There's not much cost benefit and it's not convenient. There's no denying this need to be solved. But I don't think we should solve this by applying petrol station refuel mentality and demand this to be solved by asking those without driveway to rely on expensive rapid charging. Charging speed flexibility is a huge asset to the grid's renewable goals, I think this can be used to reduce public charging cost just like existing smart charging tariffs.

Intelligent Octopus (IO) home tariff is a form of smart charging. There's no reason why this cannot be applied to street level charging, any location where car is likely to be parked for longer than it needs to recharge.  There's leeway to tweak power draw so that demand matches supply, instead of traditionally firing up fossil fuel power stations to make supply to meet demand. Multiply this flexibility across all BEV fleet in a country, we have built a virtual hugely adjustable power demand leaver.

 

Current smart charging tariffs:

https://octopus.energy/smart/intelligent-octopus/

https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/charge-anytime

 

In 5 years time, V2H would be mature (as in product to buy and cars to use with). That huge battery on the driveway suddenly becomes home battery. May be in 15-25 years time, most chargers will become V2G. We will have built a virtual power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_power_plant

 

 

We got to get use to a little forward planning, having all that energy stored and not actively utilised is an expensive luxury/waste. Same as having cash under the pillow vs make them work in stocks and shares (or crypto 😛 )

Slight disagreement as actually many people who drive for work and currently use diesel to minimise down time between sites would kill for a decent hydrogen vehicle. Plenty don’t have drives too.

 

So whilst battery is good for many, hydrogen would be good. I would like the option and would likely own one BEV with a 200 mile range and an FCEV.

 

As it stands it’s a 300-450mile BEV and a diesel.  Obviously an FCEV would be better and the smaller battery would be more efficient on the BEV.

 

I also fundamentally don’t think v2g is the answer you think. Solar systems requiring a mandatory load shedding to home battery/hot water or EV is as much use.

 

Pumped hydro and hydrogen generation to store excess renewables and use them when wind/sun is low is far more manageable for the grid and storage should be mandated for renewable generators. (Domestic could be v2g/home battery or throttle back).

 

The storage at generation would also means rather than paying people to consume excess, generators could be mandated to disconnect from grid and store. These stores could the be used to balance the grid instead of gas backup stations when renewable generation is low.

 

Batteries for EV are not exactly nice to make in terms of environmental impact, so smaller batteries in more efficient cars, with generator storage and an option for people who need mega daily range (at a cost) isn’t a bad thing.

 

Don’t let perfect get in the way of good, and from an environmental point of view an FCEV is better than an ICE.  Ideally green hydrogen, but even blue is better than petrol/diesel/gas boilers. At least pollutants could be scrubbed/captured and handled rather than coming out of every exhaust/boiler flu untreated.

 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Are they going to install street furniture to allow for each car to have a dedicated charger, in other words if the street can normal except for say 40 cars to parked in it on a daily basis that they will install 40 chargers to allow them all to be charged at the same time and without having loads of long cables that then become a hazard for pedestrians and those with poor sight or blind and also of course these cables could and will present shock risks as they become worn or suffer damage.  

40 cars would only need a max of 20 EV charge points. overwhelming majority of people don’t need to recharge every day, or even every other day. 
But of course, more the merrier. However, being realistic, I’m not sure it’s physically possible to provide for all parking spaces. 
 

Public slow EV charge points, cable are in the car and looked after by car owner. But even my 6 years old cable left on the my home charge in rain and sun still functions like new and zero sign of wear and tear apart from discolouration from white. 
 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

This is classic passing the buck. Any qualities electrician can pull the main fuse. I’ve had solar company, EV charger company and regular electrician pulling this fuse. 

Not strictly true, they must be suitably qualified, have the correct equipment and have permission from the DNO. That last bit is usually only permitted for their staff.

 

Of course any home without an isolation switch after the main fuse, should probably get one fitted, so the fuse is no longer an issue.

 

https://engx.theiet.org/f/wiring-and-regulations/22053/on-the-subject-of-pulling-the-dno-fuse

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by cheezemonkhai

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

40 cars would only need a max of 20 EV charge points. overwhelming majority of people don’t need to recharge every day, or even every other day. 
But of course, more the merrier. However, being realistic, I’m not sure it’s physically possible to provide for all parking spaces. 
 

Public slow EV charge points, cable are in the car and looked after by car owner. But even my 6 years old cable left on the my home charge in rain and sun still functions like new and zero sign of wear and tear apart from discolouration from white. 
 

You may have a point about the street chargers, apart from where these are outside people's houses there will be the A holes who will not move their cars out to allow a neighbour to access the charger and before you or any else says it, yes I know that they don't own that parking spot but equally there is nothing anyone can do to make them move it either, not even the police I have tried that avenue when one of neighbours with 5 cars parked across my drive while I was out for the day, and they did not want to know as it was not blocking the highway.

19 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Not strictly true, they must be suitably qualified, have the correct equipment and have permission from the DNO.

 

Of course any home without an isolation switch after the main fuse, should probably get one fitted, so the fuse is no longer an issue.

Exactly, that was what I claimed the position to be when the solar company told me that, and while I have been in the industry all my life that has always been the case. Now just like the railways, since privatisation the lines have become somewhat blurred and there is now no longer a single authority that covers all aspects, it is a real can of worms and a living hell for these trapped with in it. I am currently fighting to get an isolator fitted to enable the work to be done, problem is that in order to do that, the fuse has to be pulled out and that takes us full circle again back to the original problem and nobody wants to take ownership of that aspect.

 

I have discovered that my supplier was sitting on well over £1,000 of my money as I have a budget plan with them and that money was increasing with each direct debit they took from my bank and that was for my gas supply., They were perfectly happy to hold onto my money and would have done so had I not probed about and asked questions.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

@Graham ButcherI think the difference between us is i worked in garages, had friends with scrap yards, used scrap yards, weighed in scrap and have know car thieves and all sorts of dodgy geezers all my life and bought and sold accident damaged cars and repaired them.  

So if there is something about cars crime or the likes that i am unaware of i am always willing to be taught.  Otherwise you are teaching Grandad to suck eggs.

 

As to free charging and the remaining districts, maybe check out the pinned thread at the top of this Section about Scotland.

 

A CPS RFID card is now £12. You can get more than 1.

 

 

 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

2 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherI think the difference between is i worked in garages, had friends with scrap yards and have know car thieves and all sorts of dodgy geezers all my life and bought and sold accident damaged cars and repaired them.  

So if there is something about cars crime or the likes that i am unaware of i am always willing to be taught.  Otherwise you are teaching Grandad to suck eggs.

Well, there have been a few TV documentaries and there are also some tracker companies with their own YouTube channels that I think are well worth your while researching when time permits. 

@Graham ButcherWell there is getting out there and doing things and seeing things.   You had to be there. 

Maybe go try an EV.

 

Junkie barstewards centre punching the glass was an issue. But who wants that stuff they took these days?

Opportunists doing a car for stuff seen is an issue but people are a bit more switched on now.

I am surprised how clear people leave interiors of cars these days.  Mine are like mobile under stair cupboards.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

11 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Slight disagreement as actually many people who drive for work and currently use diesel to minimise down time between sites would kill for a decent hydrogen vehicle. Plenty don’t have drives too.

Yes, hydrogen still has its place as a niche product that caters to those that just cannot make EV work, mainly to minimise downtime.

 

12 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I also fundamentally don’t think v2g is the answer you think. Solar systems requiring a mandatory load shedding to home battery/hot water or EV is as much use.

 

Pumped hydro and hydrogen generation to store excess renewables and use them when wind/sun is low is far more manageable for the grid and storage should be mandated for renewable generators. (Domestic could be v2g/home battery or throttle back).

 

The storage at generation would also means rather than paying people to consume excess, generators could be mandated to disconnect from grid and store. These stores could the be used to balance the grid instead of gas backup stations when renewable generation is low.

 

Batteries for EV are not exactly nice to make in terms of environmental impact, so smaller batteries in more efficient cars, with generator storage and an option for people who need mega daily range (at a cost) isn’t a bad thing.

The problem is all those storage methods (home battery, pumped hydro, storage at generation sites) require additional cap-ex and thus makes renewable more expensive than necessary. Batteries for all applications are not nice to make, it is bonkers the battery in EV are not being utilised when the car is parked. Smart cloud based system have the capability to create virtual power plants or power sink with much less front cost.

 

Smaller battery does not exclude it from being used for V2G. I'm planning to use V2H with my now 18 kWh Leaf, according to my back of envelope calculation, there's room to spare for exporting to the grid, amount depend on season and sunshine.

 

V2G can also not drain the battery by providing grid 50Hz stabilisation. Something used to be done by big gas turbine.

This V2G is done with 24 kWh eNV200's.

 

21 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Don’t let perfect get in the way of good, and from an environmental point of view an FCEV is better than an ICE.  Ideally green hydrogen, but even blue is better than petrol/diesel/gas boilers. At least pollutants could be scrubbed/captured and handled rather than coming out of every exhaust/boiler flu untreated.

FCEV is only slightly better than ICE when using green hydrogen.

The typical diagram as to why:

 

As long as this inefficiency is captured in the running cost, I have no problem with hydrogen FC cars.

 

Blue is well understood to be worse than Green in terms of environmental impact. Using blue hydrogen at cheaper cost than green would be functionally the same as running petrol/diesel and not paying attention to their pollution.

 

21 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Not strictly true, they must be suitably qualified, have the correct equipment and have permission from the DNO.

 

Of course any home without an isolation switch after the main fuse, should probably get one fitted, so the fuse is no longer an issue.

Hum.... sorry, I have forgot about the isolator switch. The EV charger and electrician used the isolation switch, not the fuse, I remember. I can't recall if solar company pulled my main fuse. I can recall the main fuse seal was broken after solar install. Meter inspector and smart meter installer didn't bat an eye lid.

 

 

1 hour ago, toot said:

The key fob or phone app can have a Panic / Attack alarm to activate, 

you know if your alarm goes off, or the vehicle moves.  But that is not just an EV thing.

That is not always the case, my car has a tracker fitted but it does not alert me to the fact that is either been broken into or stolen, it relies on me noticing that the car has been stolen and alerting the tracker company so that they can broadcast a signal to switch the tracker into alert mode whereupon it sends out a current GPS signal so that the relevant people con converge on that location and attempt recovery. If the devices was constantly sending out signals, the thieves could hone in on its actual location within the vehicle by intercepting that signal, ripping the tracker out and then relocating the vehicle to a new untraceable location 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

 

EDIT.

Chill, i don't give cuss if they pinch a leased or rented car, ev or ICE.  Have you got ulcers?

 

Obviously it is not always the case.  Nothing is always the case. 

 

The point is toe rags that are in the crime / thieving business are more clued than any other people including the Police.

 

You will more likely have your car tanned or your house because you used a garage, a valet person, or someone that gets access to your car.

same with your house or business.

Trusted people with a habit they can not afford and they have to be helpful to others with tip offs. 

Or dodgy police officers might be even more common than them.

 

Then there are a special crowd who have their own code and languages and cultural differences and take anything anyplace from anyone. 

If you complain they say they are 'special', they have a heritage.  Well that heritage was not being thieving chancers.

 

PS

People know where you are all the time.

Ripping out and disabling Trackers is one thing, blocking signals is nothing new.  You were talking about EV charging and i was saying you can know if the car moves.

Big deal.

 

?

So why are EV,s more of interests to criminals? 

 

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

31 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherWell there is getting out there and doing things and seeing things.   You had to be there. 

Maybe go try an EV.

 

Junkie barstewards centre punching the glass was an issue. But who wants that stuff they took these days?

Opportunists doing a car for stuff seen is an issue but people are a bit more switched on now.

I am surprised how clear people leave interiors of cars these days.  Mine are like mobile under stair cupboards.

I fail to see what benefit there is of me trying an EV is going to make to my point of view, I know that I would love the way that it drives, the sheer quietness of it etc.

 

I'm not making these points out of how it affects me, as I expect that by the time I have no option but go electric, I'll either be deemed too old and doddery to drive or I'll have departed this mortal coil.🤣

 

What people are failing to accept is that I'm effectively standing outside out of my circle and taking a long hard look at the realities of going EV without the emotions of either being wrapped up in it because I have already jumped into EV ownership and feel I have to defend that step, neither do I realistically feel it's ever going to affect me directly.

 

That puts me in a unique position where I can view things with zero influences on me, which is something that few here can actually claim as they have already made the switch and so have little understanding of where I'm coming from and to a large part are possibly now defending their decision or those that can see they almost certainly guarantee that the EV position will impact their life at some point in the future. 

 

If it helps, you can all think of me as the little child in the Hans Christian Anderson tale of the Emperor's New Clothes, who was not bound. by the normal conventions and fears that adults have 

The Emperor's New Clothes - Wikipedia 

 

Perhaps if more people could also step out of their comfort zone and look back and take a fresh look at things from a different perspective the planet might look a like a far nicer place than it does today.

@Graham Butcher please just explain please your thinking on the issues of parking EV,s and the difference from an ICE vehicle as far as crime goes.

 

Stuff like that makes no sense to me in any discussion on BEV,s or PHEV,s and public charging. 

 

(The surveys do ask about if you feel scared, concerned and about lighting, security etc  and ev charging, and accessibility, disabled users etc and these come from the AA, RAC, Motability, Which and the various others involved with motoring or car sales.)

 

 Lack of and the price of Public charging is the biggest issue for private EV drivers, and even some company car ones.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by toot

31 minutes ago, toot said:

People know where you are all the time.

Ripping out and disabling Trackers is one thing, blocking signals is nothing new.  You were talking about EV charging and i was saying you can know if the car moves.

Big deal.

 

?

So why are EV,s more of interests to criminals? 

 

No, I wasn't just talking about EV cars on charge, I was talking about any car left unattended for a period of time and if they can come and steal a car from your driveway when there is always a higher risk that they will be detected by yourself, or someone walking/driving down the road and scaring them off, then they will have a field in a charging park with almost zero chance on any accidentally stumbling on them.

 

I also never said that EV cars are of more interest to criminals, but they will be as they gain popularity, that you can be sure of.

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham Butcher please just explain please your thinking on the issues of parking EV,s and the difference from an ICE vehicle as far as crime goes.

 

Stuff like that makes no sense to me in any discussion on BEV,s or PHEV,s and public charging. 

 

(The surveys do ask about if you feel scared, concerned and about lighting, security etc  and ev charging, and accessibility, disabled users etc and these come from the AA, RAC, Motability, Which and the various others involved with motoring or car sales.)

 

 Lack of and the price of Public charging is the biggest issue for private EV drivers, and even some company car ones.

You're making that assumption, not me, I'm saying that any car regardless of its means of propulsion could be the target of car crime. And I'd much rather have that expensive car closer to me at home than leave it unattended in some strange space away from where I can keep a watchful eye on it from time to time. That's it, plain and simple, no conspiracy theory or anything, I and many others would feel far happier if they could look out of their window or on their CCTV monitor and see the car is safe and sound on their drive or outside their house.

Edited 10 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher