@Graham Butcher

We are not comparing like for like, like a Millionaire self employed journalist, farmer and who knows what else with an over 22 car collection and under £8,000 a year insurance on them and the bikes.

 

He knows what suits him and his needs. 

 

Quite a few RR,s kicking about here and the drivers have a few motors including EV,s. 

 

I spotted one the other day in Matt Blue and the badge right across the tailgate was  O C E A N   .  

A Range Rover Sport SV, 626-hp twin turbo V-8 mild hybrid.   Was going to stop take a picture but i had 2 Full Size Grey RR,s trying to get passed.

 

These publicans and farmers can drive what ever. 

@RootedI agree, he knows what suits him, and that was my point as well, seeing as we were discussing Harry's video and he was actually thinking about replacing his current diesel RR with PHEV one listed at £115,585, with a deposit of £20,000 on a 3 year lease 10,000 miles / year comes out to a staggering £1382.71 a month.

 

He then looked at slightly more affordable PHEV RR, listed at £95,005, same deposit and lease terms but payments still came to £1025.63 each month but the diesel RR sport, comes out £85,647 list price, same lease terms again but monthly costs of just £600, and that is the one he ended up with, and that was the point that Harry was making.

 

And as we were discussing that particular video it is only fair is it not to, to not move the goal posts like @wyx087did in his post while claiming that Harry clearly hasn't seen the latest deals. Harry was not looking at lower class of cars, and hence me pointing it out.

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

Moving the goal post is comparing 2019 Model 3 to a 2016 Superb “limousine“  😂  

 

I don’t know about you. I’m not seeing any full electric Range Rover on the market today. If he wanted a RR, there isn’t such choice. 
 

As always, people will always find a way to justify one’s decision. Harry had decided on a RR and he had a few things to say about EV’s. Mostly valid points, but he combined it to fit an outdated narrative.  
 

The truth is that EV are becoming cheaper by the day. There are many deals to be had on most levels today. 

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

 

I spotted one the other day in Matt Blue and the badge right across the tailgate was  O C E A N   .  

 

 

I guess that would have been a Fisker Ocean then...

 

Fisker Ocean | Fisker Inc.

30 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Moving the goal post is comparing 2019 Model 3 to a 2016 Superb “limousine“  😂  

 

I don’t know about you. I’m not seeing any full electric Range Rover on the market today. If he wanted a RR, there isn’t such choice. 
 

As always, people will always find a way to justify one’s decision. Harry had decided on a RR and he had a few things to say about EV’s. Mostly valid points, but he combined it to fit an outdated narrative.  
 

The truth is that EV are becoming cheaper by the day. There are many deals to be had on most levels today. 

I was comparing the weight of the Superb to that of the Tesla, because it has been claimed that EVs are heavier then a ICE car of similar size. My illustration showed that EV cars are actually heavier than bigger ICE  cars. 

 

While I agree there are more affordable EVs coming, Harry was not looking for any of them, only a PHEV RR and the point was that while PHEV RR sport cost 95k, the diesel version was 85k but was almost 50% of the monthly leasing cost. 

 

So how are people going to switch to PHEV version to help decarbonising the world when they are paying almost double the cost. This is what Harry was talking about in his video. 

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

Point of order; a Superb is a large saloon, not a limousine. This is easily confirmed by getting into the rear seats and looking at the backs of the front seats rather than the fixed divider that isn't there.

I was not saying it was a limousine, but that it has rear legroom like that found in a limousine. 

@skomaz I did not think it was as ugly as that and as i came up behind and passed it the other Range Rovers were near.

I assumed it was 1 of the OCEAN themed Range Rover Sport SV.  One was displayed in Miami. 

 

It must have been though. It was this matt blue.

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

@skomaz I did not think it was as ugly as that and as i came up behind and passed it the other Range Rovers were near.

I assumed it was 1 of the OCEAN themed Range Rover Sport SV.  One was displayed in Miami. 

 

It must have been though. It was this matt blue.

An interesting thing with the Ocean is that it comes or can be had with a solar roof panel which could produce upto 1,500 free miles with the right exposure to sunlight, I guess that's not going to happen in the UK then.😁

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

I reckon since people have gone to the bother of investing and building solar farms like the 1 a mile from me and the 2 more with applications for 1.5 miles away there is sun often enough. 

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

I'm not sure if that is a reply to my comment about the solar panel built into the roof of the Fisker Ocean or not, if it is, I still stand by what I said about it claiming it could produce upto 1,500 free miles a year, we don't get that much sun, were as the same car in say California, then I'd say it might be possible as the sun shines a lot more there, the operative word is could.

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

My 2.9 kW-peak W-E facing 2-string array can only manage 2,200 kWh a year. ~8000 miles. Considering the much smaller surface area on roof of a car, I guess 1000 may be possible as long as the car is jacked up as tall as 2 story building and never parked in any shade .......

 

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

While I agree there are more affordable EVs coming, Harry was not looking for any of them, only a PHEV RR and the point was that while PHEV RR sport cost 95k, the diesel version was 85k but was almost 50% of the monthly leasing cost. 

 

So how are people going to switch to PHEV version to help decarbonising the world when they are paying almost double the cost. This is what Harry was talking about in his video. 

Diesel vehicle is probably at same point as BEV at the moment, where people don't want them due to public perception, so there are many cheap deals to be had.

 

Currently PHEV are selling well, it is the fastest growing powertrain type. Doesn't matter if one Harry find ways to justify his purchase, other people is buying.

 

Personally, I'm more worried about the anti-EV FUD being spread on tabloids, slowing mass adoption of BEV.

@wyx087I think your analogy with the solar panel on the roof of the Ocean is about right provided it never sees shade from buildings, trees and other vehicles and we have wall-to-wall sunshine, that's just the type of weather we have isn't it 😊

 

I'm not disputing any of what you are saying regarding here being cheaper deals but Harry wanted a Range Rover Sport and gave his own personal findings of 2 Range Rover Sports, 1 being a PHEV, the other a diesel, consider the following:-

 

PHEV list price of £95,000 total lease price of £56,922 over 3 years.

Diesel list price £85,000 total lease prices of £41,600 over 3 years.

 

Meaning there is a premium of £15,322 over that period to have a PHEV. Also bear in mind that he is a private buyer, so has no access to a salary sacrifice scheme, he has done his sums and decided that the premium is just not viable for him. Where is the advantage for Harry in spending an extra £15,322 when the creature comforts and space, and style of car that he wants can be had for that much less and fits his family needs.

 

Other people might well be buying PHEVs while Harry is buying his diesel (mild hybrid) but that is his choice, just as you chose to have a Telsa Model Y when you could also have chosen other more competitive offerings from other makers.

 

When I had a company car, I elected to opt for a L&K Superb 170hp diesel DSG car that was actually cheaper to lease, even though the cars value with all the extra options and being the top of the range model was way higher than the car that all of my colleagues chose. They chose the Audi A4 SE which had smaller less powerful engines and manual gearbox but otherwise the same underpinnings and smaller body and their lease price was considerably higher than mine, and they paid more BIK tax as a result and had less creature comforts, but had the badge snobbery factor of the Audi over the Skoda, big deal.

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

They chose the Audi A4 SE

... and therefore self-identified as Audiots!

@Graham Butcher   

 

You are not a silly person and you typed the words 'you still stand by what they say about claiming it can produce up to 1,500 free miles a year'.

You guess that is not going to happen in the UK then.

 

I went and read what the bumf said regarding the roof.  i see "Up to 1,500 EMISSIONS FREE miles",   that is the same as at no cost to the owner i suppose, Emission free and cash money zero. 

 

 

So they claim and you guess. 

 There lays the issue, you will never know but someone that gets one might find out.

As to your building thing, shade etc, there will be people that do live in the countryside with open skies and and gain from the south facing aspect.

 

 

If that is their claim then that is that, like the 'claims that some PHEV,s can get as high as 200 mpg. 

Go down hill often enough and keep charging the car and the engine not firing up and some maybe have done that, it keeps being claimed and has be for many years.

Edited 10 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

I know nothing about solar and the panel on the roof of the car, but if I was to want 1,500 miles in a year and I get 3 miles a kWh so need 500 kWh so less than 10 kWh a week how many hours of sunlight does it need in a week?     PS. Now if the car is not jacked up 2 storey high but just parked up a hill beside the wind turbines and solar farm at maybe 2,000 feet above sea level, not in London obviously then going 15 miles or more down hill I might get 6 miles to a kWh.  Does that mean I only need 5kWh of a charge into the battery a week? 

Edited 10 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

45 minutes ago, Rooted said:

I know nothing about solar and the panel on the roof of the car, but if I was to want 1,500 miles in a year and I get 3 miles a kWh so need 500 kWh so less than 10 kWh a week how many hours of sunlight does it need in a week?     PS. Now if the car is not jacked up 2 storey high but just parked up a hill beside the wind turbines and solar farm at maybe 2,000 feet above sea level, not in London obviously then going 15 miles or more down hill I might get 6 miles to a kWh.  Does that mean I only need 5kWh of a charge into the battery a week? 

In order to obtain the 1,500 miles you would need to be able to expose the car to direct sunshine for the maximum number of hours in a day and do your driving after sunset, avoid your car being subjected to shade and or dull overcast days, they say quote "With the Fisker Ocean’s revolutionary full-length SolarSky roof, you can harvest the sun’s rays to generate free energy to support the vehicle’s battery-powered motor. When fully exposed to the sun, the Fisker Ocean Extreme’s SolarSky can produce up to 1,500 clean, emissions-free miles per year, and under ideal conditions may increase to beyond 2000 miles³ – all powered by pure sunshine."

 

 

 

Based on Fisker simulations. Ideal conditions assume solar irradiation of 5.4 kWh/m2/day and steady commuter driving. Actual results vary with conditions such as external environment and vehicle use.   

Well if i can get 6 miles a kWh on the way down from the Lecht i will be OK if able to get 1 kWh into the battery a day, or an average of that. 

No chance of getting any solar charging today though. 

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

In order to obtain the 1,500 miles you would need to be able to expose the car to direct sunshine for the maximum number of hours in a day and do your driving after sunset, avoid your car being subjected to shade and or dull overcast days, they say quote "With the Fisker Ocean’s revolutionary full-length SolarSky roof, you can harvest the sun’s rays to generate free energy to support the vehicle’s battery-powered motor. When fully exposed to the sun, the Fisker Ocean Extreme’s SolarSky can produce up to 1,500 clean, emissions-free miles per year, and under ideal conditions may increase to beyond 2000 miles³ – all powered by pure sunshine."

 

 

 

 

Better to pay 2k on a large portable solar panel or two, 400w, 600w, and a portable battery, like my Allpower s2000 Pro, or ecoflow or Bluetooth like Byorn Nyland has in his drive until they die tests. Portable, use at home and in the car, prices are tumbling, down by a third from last year.

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Better to pay 2k on a large portable solar panel or two, 400w, 600w, and a portable battery, like my Allpower s2000 Pro, or ecoflow or Bluetooth like Byorn Nyland has in his drive until they die tests. Portable, use at home and in the car, prices are tumbling, down by a third from last year.

 

Sure would take a long time to top up the battery though.

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

Well if i can get 6 miles a kWh on the way down from the Lecht i will be OK if able to get 1 kWh into the battery a day, or an average of that. 

No chance of getting any solar charging today though. 

Precisely my point, we don't get enough of the old current bun here in the UK 👍

28 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Precisely my point, we don't get enough of the old current bun here in the UK 👍

 

Solar panels currently only about 20% efficient and battery prices falling like a stone plus both are advancing technically with energy density improving more than 10% per year.

 

Solar panels expected to leap to around 50% efficiency soon with new materials.  My solar panels are making some good power in early feb, jan was crap though.

Edited 10 February, 20242 yr by lol-lol

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Solar panels expected to leap to around 50% efficiency soon

Toronto to Calgary in an Ocean

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone's talking about changing the laws of physics - just tech improvements to achieve greater efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-cell_efficiency