7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Previous governments around the world had all pushed diesel as the fuel of the future and didn't set a deadline for cessation of petrol cars, but they did offer all kinds of incentives to companies to convert over to diesel for their fleets

Not USA, not Japan, not China to my knowledge. I don't think India did as well.

 

Diesel were only push as lower carbon emitting alternatives in Europe, which is true on that single metric. Guess where are the diesel engine factories and which country's car manufacturer invested the most in diesel tech?

 

On the other hand, ZEV (of which BEV is currently the only widely available option) is pushed by more governments across the world.

USA differs by states: https://www.worktruckonline.com/10214784/which-states-have-zero-emission-vehicle-mandates

Others: https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/policy-developments

 

Japan, without BEV knowledge and said "hydrogen in 10 years" for the last 10 years: https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/exclusive-japan-pushes-remove-zero-emission-vehicle-target-g7-statement-draft-2022-06-27/ This feels like a repeat of diesel push in Europe.

 

What you say is what engine manufacturer (aka established car manufacturers) say. They have a clear vested interest to slow down ZEV adoption. Only by setting a hard target that is in the public eye, manufacturers cannot lobby the governments into the same situation that was diesel push in Europe.

On 10/10/2024 at 15:50, Luckypants said:

....and to underline how quickly the charging landscape is improving PoGo Charge launched a new ultra-rapid site at J24 of the M5 with 10 plugs from 5 200kW chargers. So more chargers for the south west @PetrolDave.

and another nail in coffin of the lie there is no infrastructure... 4 new Tesla supercharger hubs opened to all cars this week, Now up to 79 open to all and total of 153 SuC hubs.

18 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

and another nail in coffin of the lie there is no infrastructure... 4 new Tesla supercharger hubs opened to all cars this week, Now up to 79 open to all and total of 153 SuC hubs.

Who is saying that there is no infrastructure? All that I have seen anyone say is that it is not consistent across the UK as a whole, the East Anglia and the South East in particular are very poorly served as shown on the map posted earlier.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Who is saying that there is no infrastructure?

 

Very quick search "infrastructure" in this thread:

  

On 20/07/2024 at 01:03, Graham Butcher said:

Agreed, but that also assumes that they have the infrastructure to plug into, also in the case of ICE, the filling stations are never more than a few streets away and takes minutes to do.

  

On 13/04/2024 at 14:52, Graham Butcher said:

Why did I buy a Porsche Taycan, that video was a good honest appraisal of his car, full marks to him for that, to once again be fair to the MacMaster, he would also echo that i think, as he openly admits, the car is great, and he loves the way car drives, its the charging infrastructure that lets the current experience down, something that both YTubers self confess to.

  

On 13/04/2024 at 14:34, Graham Butcher said:

To be honest, I'm struggling to see what the fuss is with Taycan mans video,

...........................

 

He was highlighting IMO the problems with the infrastructure.........

 

 

Following on from my earlier post on government ZEV policy.

 

This video talks about "positive tipping points" which are things like ZEV adoption.

 

But starting from my shared starting point, the presenter talks about inevitable negative impacts of any social change. The question is, who gets to decide how policies are set to push towards / pull away from certain change?

 

The answer is net benefit. Which change produces the most net benefit for everyone.

 

 

16 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

Very quick search "infrastructure" in this thread:

None of those say NO infrastructure but point out that the infrastructure is NOT consistent throughout the nations and regions.

19 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Who is saying that there is no infrastructure? All that I have seen anyone say is that it is not consistent across the UK as a whole, the East Anglia and the South East in particular are very poorly served as shown on the map posted earlier.

You, amongst others plus the general media and other ill-informed people. I live in 'poorly served' area and have no problems with public charging. It has also improved tremendously since I bought my EV 3 years ago. You get all offended and shirty when the facts are shoved under your nose. The thread is called 'The Truth About Electric Cars', but some don't like having the truth pointed out.

 

2 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

some don't like having the truth pointed out.

Please don't misrepresent what others are saying, maybe you need to look in a mirror?

17 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Please don't misrepresent what others are saying, maybe you need to look in a mirror?

This is a common theme with some EV'ers they seem to misunderstand what is actually being said and automatically assume that anyone without an EV posting in this thread must have an agenda against them. 🙄

Edited 12 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Are we there yet dad?

Do we have to freeze to death because there are no chargers available and you Rented this stupid milk float rather than some diesel that we could go 1,000 miles in without needing to buy fuel?

 

PS

Everyone of the Ev'ers here have had petrols or diesels.   They are not New Drivers or old without a clue.

Edited 12 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

No disrespect, but absolutely nobody has ever suggested they hadn't had petrol or diesel cars before or were new drivers, however the map does clearly show areas which have poor infrastructure, granted areas 1,2 and 3 do have other reasons for this such as mountains which will have a limiting effect on the demand and also siting of chargers, but that most certainly does not apply to area 4 which is predominantly a flat area of the country. Hence the huge numbers of WW1 and WW2 RAF airfields (many are now defunct) located in that area.

 

We do actually know what is happening on our own turf, we can understand maps and use our eyes when we go out and about so we can see that certain parts of the country are not as well blessed as others,  we also go much further afield than just our own county and its neighbouring ones.

 

 

Flow Country and mountains are certainly a reason for a lack of chargers. Not a lack of pylons to get electricity to England though. 

 

What a load of guff while there are only 1.2 million EV,s and chargers going up daily. 

 

PS.

Loads of chargers in Scotland are ghost chargers. Broken / Out of Service, needing replaced.

 

Edited 12 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

4 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Flow Country and mountains are certainly a reason for a lack of chargers. Not a lack of pylons to get electricity to England though. 

 

What a load of guff while there are only 1.2 million EV,s and chargers going up daily. 

There is a planned pylon route passing about a mile away from and some locals are trying to get it stopped. They are all Nimbys but are perfectly willing to shout from the rooftops if their supply goes down etc, except the fact that there will pylons around, its the quickest and cheapest way to move power around, these same people are also conspiracy theorists as they pop onto the social media site that I'm a moderator on (over 10million users in the UK) and ranting and raving if they see a vapour trail in the sky from high-flying airliner, claiming that they are spraying chemicals to control us, FFS.

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think it's worth doing a comparison between those highlighted areas and petrol station or population density.

The one I found doesn't feel like showing everything: https://www.fuelgenie.co.uk/fuel-cards-uk-locations/find-nearest-petrol-station/

 

(1) Highlands, (2) north Yorkshire and (3) middle of wales are known to be sparse to begin with.

 

Also remember how much distance is that area with sparse charging. 2 and 3 are certainly very manageable without charging. But (1) Highlands is very big and CPS is not fit for purpose.

 

For number 4, this is zoomed in compared against Cornwall which looked packed in Lucky's map. The zoomed in maps look very similar in density to my eye.

 

I have noticed this before, it doesn't load properly to that area until zoomed in. It's a bug with Electroverse map. As always, it's worth going to source and check for yourself.

10 hours ago, Luckypants said:

I live in 'poorly served' area and have no problems with public charging. It has also improved tremendously since I bought my EV 3 years ago. 

Good I'm very happy for you, and of course your personal experience may just be down to the places and distances you drive to along with the actual range that your car is capable of providing you. Others with smaller batteries might not be sharing your opinion

Edited 12 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Haven't dropped in on this tread lately but I see nothing has changed ;o)

Speaking of Threads: How many of you have watched the excellent film of the same Name about the effects of a nuclear strike on the UK ? It's back on Iplayer for the 40th anniversary.

Pretty grim still even today and TBH if such a thing was to happen it doesn't matter what you drive you could probably forget it ;o)

Thanks, I've put that in my playlist to watch tonight.

Just a normal sort of working guy that needs transport and can charge at home. Millions of the same about the UK.  & some make videos.

 

EDIT.

It is 80 kW DC / CCS charging not 50kW max

& 11 kW AC on an appropriate connection. 3 phase. or that would be 7kW on a standard home box.

 

Edited 13 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Not a bad deal that TBH, as he says, at that price and for his work, it's a no-brainer. It was very refreshing to hear him being 100% honest about an EV is natural fit for any one doing about 20 or so miles a day and can charge at home and to hear him also say that anything longer then what he did, then ICE as the way to go, thanks for posting. To pinch your phrase, "nail on head"

 

I have spent today over at my local airfield helping my friend rearrange his 2 Spitfires, P51 Mustang, and his classic cars in his hangar ready for the winter months. His car collection consists of a MG TA, AC Cobra, Sunbeam Tiger, and 2 Mustangs, 1 is a soft top and the is fixed top coupe signed by Shelby and these are as near to mint as you're going to get. We spent the day playing planes and cars Tetris. and the by day's end we all the cars neatly tucked away in their custom-made covers and also air bubbles coupled to their battery keepers. All planes rearranged to create space to allow his couple of vintage Massey Ferguson tractors and sufficient space to also store his lovely normal plane that he uses to hop from home to the airfield in, great day, in my element there.

 

On way I drove past all these preregistered Skodas and all the front row are all 24 plate but ICE, maybe the back rows might be EVs, maybe next time I have more time I'll check further to see if any of them are electric or not.

Edited 13 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

If plated then they must be first registered.  But we are on 74 plates now. 

 

 

No body pays list price, etc. But it's still worth noting that we have reached price parity on list price:

 

https://electrek.co/2024/10/13/price-parity-is-here-new-stellantis-crossover-is-the-same-price-ev-or-ice/?

 

Quote

The new Vauxhall Frontera shown here is a mid-size crossover set to launch in the UK later this year with a £23,495 price tag (approx. $30,705) for the ICE version … and £23,495 for the BEV.

 

44 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

If plated then they must be first registered.  But we are on 74 plates now. 

 

 

Well that is the plates fitted to them, could it be that they are trying to create an artificial shortage of ICE Skoda's so they can sell their quota of EV's easier, I wonder?

12 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well that is the plates fitted to them, could it be that they are trying to create an artificial shortage of ICE Skoda's so they can sell their quota of EV's easier, I wonder?

By registering 78 more ICE vehicles, VAG would need to sell 22 more EV's to meet the mandate quota.

 

How would creating artificial demand for ICE Skoda support your narrative that EV's don't sell? If that were the case, what incentive is there to allow register more ICE than necessary from a manufacturer point of view?

 

The reason is usually due to dealership needing to hit certain targets. Let's not use a single sighting of a single dealership to speculate and insert narratives.

15 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

Speaking of Threads: How many of you have watched the excellent film of the same Name about the effects of a nuclear strike on the UK ? It's back on Iplayer for the 40th anniversary.

Pretty grim still even today and TBH if such a thing was to happen it doesn't matter what you drive you could probably forget it ;o)

I watched that video on IPlayer tonight, and you're right, if that did happen for real then with all infrastructure destroyed, so to would all the cars with shockwave ripping and shredding everything in its path, the only cars and people who were underground at the time and even then, highly unlikely to reach the street for all the rubble blocking their path.

 

With all the current wars going on and the existence of these nuclear weapons, then such a scenario is becoming even more a reality.

Edited 13 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

15 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

Haven't dropped in on this tread lately but I see nothing has changed ;o)

Speaking of Threads: 

 

Nice that you're keeping up the long tradition of this thread going off topic 👍