so bottom line is his conclusions are pretty accurate. Cars are great, infrastructure sucks especially if you are Grandad or Grandma Jones;)

Infrastructure sucks some places, and some providers / networks suck.     Charge Place Scotland is a special case as many providers / owners of chargers. 

 

My experience of best charging experience, no issue or maybe 1 or 2 in 75,000 miles of charging.

Instavolt.   Instant charge from tapping card.

PodPoint.  I use a card or the App, nearly always instant start unless chargerfaulty.

Evyve. Instant charge from tapping card.

Tesla. App, instant.

Osprey. Card & instant.

Ionity. Card & Instant. 

 

Some problems. Very frustrating. 

MFG.  Card & App, and have sometimes taken several attempts and move charger to get started.

 

Lots of issues so only use or try if not in a hurry.

BP Pulse.  I have subscription.

 

Shell Recharge, I have never managed to get a charge started at 1. Tried about 4. 

 

 

 

If only ZAPMAP was as good as they think they are.  Pretty damn hopeless IME.  Never updating quick enough, missing many chargers even when reported to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

47 pence on InstaVolt.  Old Video.

Now 85 pence a kWh.

Now from 1st September 54 pence between 10 pm & 6 am.  That is using the App.

Being extended to Contactless uses before the end of the year.    (Budget dependent maybe.)

 

 

 

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

3 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

so bottom line is his conclusions are pretty accurate. Cars are great, infrastructure sucks especially if you are Grandad or Grandma Jones;)

Well I feel they should have at least familiarised themselves with DC charging before setting off, but that seems par for Chinese designed cars. MG and now BYD have trouble with some chargers due to implementing the CCS specs a little loosely from all accounts. MG needed a few software updates to the MG4 to finally iron out the CCS gremlins with their cars. Tesla chargers are fine as long as you go to one that is open to all, just telling the sat nav to take you to a Tesla charger is no good if it is a Tesla only site - the video didn't say where they were or what the issue was.

I still plan long drives, not trusting to just being able to turn up and charge. Mainly this is to minimise costs and is also something I did in my ICE cars.

57 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Well I feel they should have at least familiarised themselves with DC charging before setting off, but that seems par for Chinese designed cars. MG and now BYD have trouble with some chargers due to implementing the CCS specs a little loosely from all accounts. MG needed a few software updates to the MG4 to finally iron out the CCS gremlins with their cars. Tesla chargers are fine as long as you go to one that is open to all, just telling the sat nav to take you to a Tesla charger is no good if it is a Tesla only site - the video didn't say where they were or what the issue was.

I still plan long drives, not trusting to just being able to turn up and charge. Mainly this is to minimise costs and is also something I did in my ICE cars.

 

Those who only drive ICE cars do not appreciate that EVs gey more and more efficient the slower they go.

 

Due the multiple reductions of the ICE drive train and inherent losses of the piston engine, always hope Dr Felix ****el's engine would prevail, the nature of ICE is nowhere near tge efficiency of EVs round town and at slow speeds.

 

I have found that this figure if only 3 or 4 miles per kwh is what one gets when barrelling along at the NSL but slow down, sit amongst or preferable in the aero slipstream of trucks and vans and only can do much more than the WLTP. Extreme I know but one can double that WLTP figure if one tries hard, save a packet in not spending money at public rapid chargers. Take the A road or the bypass or through town if relatively quiet. Save even more money on charging at that next much cheaper than ICE service is even farther away.

 

Five pound fill ups taking us 3 or 4 hundred miles feels very good.

 

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Those who only drive ICE cars do not appreciate that EVs gey more and more efficient the slower they go.

 

Due the multiple reductions of the ICE drive train and inherent losses of the piston engine, always hope Dr Felix ****el's engine would prevail, the nature of ICE is nowhere near tge efficiency of EVs round town and at slow speeds.

 

I have found that this figure if only 3 or 4 miles per kwh is what one gets when barrelling along at the NSL but slow down, sit amongst or preferable in the aero slipstream of trucks and vans and only can do much more than the WLTP. Extreme I know but one can double that WLTP figure if one tries hard, save a packet in not spending money at public rapid chargers. Take the A road or the bypass or through town if relatively quiet. Save even more money on charging at that next much cheaper than ICE service is even farther away.

 

Five pound fill ups taking us 3 or 4 hundred miles feels very good.

 

I think you will discover that many of us ICE drivers are already well aware of that and that is why we say that they are ideal as city cars if you don't need the extra space that many ICE cars provide at a far lower unit cost. 

 

EDIT. By unit cost, I mean the cost of the car as compared to the fuel costs.

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

When it is 60 pence a kWh then 10 kWh is £6.00  & if you get 4 miles a kWh then 40 miles.  3.5 miles a kWh then 35 miles.

Slow down and get 4.5 miles a kWh and you are at 45 miles.

 

But then if it is 79 pence a kWh and you are going to need 20 kWh,s you are £15.80 for 90 miles or maybe 80 miles or like me 70 miles.

Crazy costs. 

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

47 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think you will discover that many of us ICE drivers are already well aware of that and that is why we say that they are ideal as city cars if you don't need the extra space that many ICE cars provide at a far lower unit cost. 

 

I would say good at all roads except motorways unless you go for a motorway specialist EV like the TESLAS, Polestar, ID7 perhaps. 

The SUV, MPV, family and city car EVs not so much unless you can be happy only doing a mile a minute rather than 5 miles ever 4 minutes as some want or need to. It will change as energy density continue to improve and the 1000 kms at 120 kph or so become affordable.

 

3 hours ago, Luckypants said:

Well I feel they should have at least familiarised themselves with DC charging before setting off, but that seems par for Chinese designed cars. MG and now BYD have trouble with some chargers due to implementing the CCS specs a little loosely from all accounts. MG needed a few software updates to the MG4 to finally iron out the CCS gremlins with their cars. Tesla chargers are fine as long as you go to one that is open to all, just telling the sat nav to take you to a Tesla charger is no good if it is a Tesla only site - the video didn't say where they were or what the issue was.

I still plan long drives, not trusting to just being able to turn up and charge. Mainly this is to minimise costs and is also something I did in my ICE cars.

That’s the point though. It’s all very well the nerds and early adopters saying “yadda yadda yadda” but average joe transitioning………

Nerds and early adopters maybe just used what common sense and brain power they are left with by the age they have a driving licence. 

Not average Joes or Janes, maybe just a sandwich short of a picnic. 

 

It is amazing how people that look totally sane, have good jobs, buy, lease or get a car from their work and have not a slightest clue.

Know absolutely nothing about what chargers do what or at what speed or anything about the car.

Turn up at Charge Place Scotland chargers without an App, a Card, never enrolled and think they can just tap a credit or debit card.

Someplaces they can just tap a card in their name or cards that come from their employer or with the car. 

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

32 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Nerds and early adopters maybe just used what common sense and brain power they are left with by the age they have a driving licence. 

Not average Joes or Janes, maybe just a sandwich short of a picnic. 

 

It is amazing how people that look totally sane, have good jobs, buy, lease or get a car from their work and have not a slightest clue.

Know absolutely nothing about what chargers do what or at what speed or anything about the car.

Turn up at Charge Place Scotland chargers without an App, a Card, never enrolled and think they can just tap a credit or debit card.

Someplaces they can just tap a card in their name or cards that come from their employer or with the car. 

Or of course they might have had a car before, an ICE and have been lulled into a false sense of security by their simplicity, simply pull up at a pump and select petrol or diesel, compared with different chargers and speeds?

 

56 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Or of course they might have had a car before, an ICE and have been lulled into a false sense of security by their simplicity, simply pull up at a pump and select petrol or diesel, compared with different chargers and speeds?

This. 
 

It’s sort of analogous to non geek having their windows PC replaced with a Linux box

On 24/10/2024 at 07:47, Winston_Woof said:

not all youtubers push the limit.

This was a charity challenge to drive as far as possible in 24 hours, this team (neither of whom are EV owners I believe) used a BYD Seal.

IMHO their conclusions probably align with those of a lot of new EV owners regarding the experience.
 

 

Interesting video and a bit of an eye opener for many I think, especially the sheer number of times that they were not able to get the chargers to actually work for what ever reason, were they faulty, was it a probelm with the electroverse card they were using etc, it certainly showed up the problems with chargers and maybe the need for having as many options of cards / accounts as possible in order to give you the best chance of getting a charge, something that does not happen with ICE as the pump is clearly working or not. The other thing I noticed and is something that many have told me is something that does not happen, and yet there are many YT videos that claim the polar opposite, is they they do have to do at times queue to get onto a charger. Yes I also accept that you do at times have to queue at some filling stations with an ICE, but those queues are very quick to disperse, not so with EVs.

13 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

This. 
 

It’s sort of analogous to non geek having their windows PC replaced with a Linux box

OT but I do happen to have both Linux and Window boxes under my desk, both sharing a single monitor, keyboard and mouse, along with a couple of Windows laptops. 

Edited 25 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

18 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

That’s the point though. It’s all very well the nerds and early adopters saying “yadda yadda yadda” but average joe transitioning………

When I first drove a car I knew how to fill it up as I'd seen it done countless times. I'd even worked as a forecourt attendant as a summer / saturday job and had filled many cars. Its 'general knowledge' via familiarity. When I got my EV, I knew in theory how to charge but still did a trial charge to familiarise myself with the process as it was not 'general knowledge' - so I know real world how to charge before it was really needed. In future charging will be 'general knowledge' as more and more are exposed to it. I think these guys knew in theory how to charge but had not become familiar with it until crunch time. Just common sense to familiarise yourself with a new process.

22 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

When I first drove a car I knew how to fill it up as I'd seen it done countless times. I'd even worked as a forecourt attendant as a summer / saturday job and had filled many cars. Its 'general knowledge' via familiarity. When I got my EV, I knew in theory how to charge but still did a trial charge to familiarise myself with the process as it was not 'general knowledge' - so I know real world how to charge before it was really needed. In future charging will be 'general knowledge' as more and more are exposed to it. I think these guys knew in theory how to charge but had not become familiar with it until crunch time. Just common sense to familiarise yourself with a new process.

Popping down to South Wales in the Scenic tomorrow and plan to pop in to the Ionity site at Magor, not the service station but the commercial estate on the other side of the junction.  350 kw beasts but I will be plugging in my 60 kwh, nominal, Scenic which is supposedly able to draw down power up to 135 kw.

Literally just want to try it own, maybe just pull down 5 kwh which should take about 9 minutes, give me about 23 miles added range, which I do not really need as I can easily do the 150 mile round trip from Worcester to Caldicot and back.  Subway 100 feet away from chargers.  Could take longer to get subway meal deal than get the charge I want.  So much better than the Zoe with its 45 kw charge rate, at best, three times faster with the liquid cooled Scenic rather than air Zoe. Still love the Zoe though.

Test completed, charge charge lobbed on to the Electroverse bill over to Octopus account so will not even notice the cost as it will not change my Direct Debit.  Happy day, its like getting it for free. 

Edited 25 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

I have a lot of miles to do in the next 10 days and am taking the MINI as i have planned around using the Tesla Superchargers unless there are any public chargers cheaper and there are not any that suit on my routes other than on the odd occasion if i charge on 7 or 11 kW AC,s. 

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

When I first drove a car I knew how to fill it up as I'd seen it done countless times. I'd even worked as a forecourt attendant as a summer / saturday job and had filled many cars. Its 'general knowledge' via familiarity. When I got my EV, I knew in theory how to charge but still did a trial charge to familiarise myself with the process as it was not 'general knowledge' - so I know real world how to charge before it was really needed. In future charging will be 'general knowledge' as more and more are exposed to it. I think these guys knew in theory how to charge but had not become familiar with it until crunch time. Just common sense to familiarise yourself with a new process.

The real problem with electric cars and the charging confusion is the one that nobody is actually addressing, and that is that there is NO set standards for the location of the charge port, or its type of port as this RAC guide shows, even from the early days the method of refuelling an ICE car has not really changed, its a case of pull into a filling station, opening the fuel tank flap. removing the cap and inserting the nozzle and squeezing the trigger and the process is the same regardless of what type of fuel or its grade.

 

Refuelling an electric is nothing like that, there are many types of plugs, types of charger, speeds, AC, or DC etc and not not all charging locations are equal, some will cater for certain types and not others.

 

So is it really any wonder that so many people struggle with getting charged, as this RAC site explains. 

 

Electric car charger types and connectors – a visual guide | RAC Drive

Edited 25 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

No need for a song and dance.

Look at the car charging point, if you can figure out how to open a flap.

 

Youtube Videos aplenty.   

Obviously there are those without a computer or a smart phone or an enquiring mind.

They might not yet of heard about electric cars, or if they have might have a tongue in their head and ears on the side.

(Deaf and Dumb can drive as well obviously, they are maybe not so daft as some around.)

 

 

You just need to know what your Tesla uses, and with others is it CCS or CHADeMO for DC Charging.

 

If it is AC charging pretty simple.      As to chargers as new ones are being installed the signage is much better. 

Edited 25 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

No need for a song and dance.

You just need to know what your Tesla uses, and with others is it CCS or CHADeMO for DC Charging.

 

If it is AC charging pretty simple.      As to chargers as new ones are being installed the signage is much better. 

 

Majority of are type 2 for AC and CCS combo plug for DC. 

That must cover the majority ie non TESLA and weird LEAF and a few other Asian built cars mostly years ago.

 

The one catching out plenty is CHADeMO.

You get adaptors. 

 

CHADeMO seems to be much more user friendly when chargers are playing up with the CCS socket.

But more seem to be sitting broken on chargers under the Administration of Charge Place Scotland and maintenance for that council with SWARCO.

 

When SWARCO were driving cars with CHADeMO i even watched them turn up and charge their cars at a faulty out of order charger an then leave not recommissioning it.

If you reported the charger faulty the Call Handler would say the charger had been working.  Yes the cheeky barstewards used them.

 

REAL WORLD for some.

Then just general parking / charging bay widths, just a joke really at many for getting in or out cars while charging and you can not move the car. 

(Tesla charging bays.)

When there is marking to one side if it suits the driver and the charging bay it can still be awkward with various vehicles, it can be disabled or infirm drivers or passengers. When there are Charging Bays for the Disabled they can just be occupied as can anything anyplace by anyone, 

 

**People, real people do still apply for and use RFID cards for simple reasons.

They do not need to mess about with a phone, or a phone when it is raining, wet screens and such.

Tap a card, it should work, if not then you are there on a bl00dy phone, places with crap phone reception and crap apps.**

 

 

 

Which is the strangest / laziest the driver of the Black Merc (Plenty like him.)

or the White EV Merc, EV bay so park there. (Plenty like them.)

Edited 25 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Majority of are type 2 for AC and CCS combo plug for DC. 

That must cover the majority ie non TESLA and weird LEAF and a few other Asian built cars mostly years ago.

 

When you have some folk who will buy a car on little more than it's colour, it does need to be simplified to cater for least techy of people to understand. 

You can not go back and simplify what was before can you?   You just need to look at the model from which year and what it is.

 

Now it is pretty simple in the UK.

Unless you are landed with a pretty new Renault with only AC charging no DC.   Which happens. 

24 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

You can not go back and simplify what was before can you?   You just need to look at the model from which year and what it is.

 

Now it is pretty simple in the UK.

Unless you are landed with a pretty new Renault with only AC charging no DC.   Which happens. 

 

With my Zoe I have only used AC three times in 3 years and that was as much just to see the what happened as good have made it home without charging even though 200 kms from charging at home.

 

Scenic has even greater range but both can charge on 22 kw AC when around.

 

I am not sure we going to need a hundred thousand rapid chargers because the pace battery capacities are increasing people will charge even more so at home or destination at the almost or actually free juice.

 

33 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

When you have some folk who will buy a car on little more than it's colour, it does need to be simplified to cater for least techy of people to understand. 

 

I got Flame Red and it was a "free" colour, yeah.