SOS / Emergency call buttons very handy once there there are more and more having a Cardiac Arrest at EV charging hubs. 

 

Calling up mobile toilets would be useful for Tesla Superchargers and other hubs near no other facilities, those not near Motorways. 

56 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

It is how it is with every vehicle i drive with any way they are powered. 

 

The thing with a BEV is that many once stopped a while or charged then have the range showing based on 5 miles a kWh, or 4 miles a kWh.

 

As much as many say what they get it looks pretty much that many in the UK get around an average of 3.6 miles a kWh.

 

64 kWh battery x 3.6 is just 230.4 miles,  where the 5 miles a kW/h is 320 /  4 miles a kWh is 256. 

 

Range, I find, is so temp, dependant.

Yesterday a neat 250 mile round trip to Liverpool and back.

Well below zero degrees zero when leaving home at 5am.  Struggled to get much above 3 miles per kwh. Arrived with 45% battery.

Afternoon yesterday was quite warm and started off and car said charge at Sandbach services. Was getting just over 4 miles per kwh by time I got on to M5 from M62.

 

Gridserve just put in six new 350 kw chargers but all 6 were occupied so went on to the 50 kw DC ones, two there. Saw it was charging at 52 kws which was OK. Just needed 10 minutes to get 7 kwhs to get me home with about 15 miles of margin. Cost just over a fiver, never paid much more than £15 just to get up to twenty kwh or so to get me home. 

 

Really warming to Gridserve for many reasons.  If i decided to grab a McDs I would have gone on the AC connections and saved 30p per kwh and saved enough to pay for the Maccy Dees.

 

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Engineer by profession and mechanic by choice to keep costs down.

 

Its all well and good @wyx087 going on about keeping costs and weight down, but sorry, that does not cut the mustard as far as I'm concerned, just like the BS about ECU and cold engine V BMS and battery temp and all of this software can solve it etc is just crap. None of it is making the EV simpler then an ICE, It's adding far more complexity into everything single thing and these things are mission-critical at times, like brakes.

 

It would be far easier and more sensible for instance to strip out all of this regen nonsense so that the driver can simply transition from ICE to EV without having to get used to different ways of driving etc, need to slow down or stop, simple, use the bleeding brake pedal, it's been good enough for decades, so why change it? It's the same thing with the battery, and I just do not see why people struggle with the concept that the battery is simply a fuel tank, and nothing else. When has there ever been a requirement to monitor the temps on fuel tanks on ICE, the need to pre-condition it before topping the tank up, or the need to not exceed the 80% of its capacity or else the tanks' longevity will suffer. Like wise, with an ICE car, you don't need to source the right type of fuel pump or filling station to suit the type of car you're driving, any fuel pump will do other than sticking diesel into a petrol tank or the other way round.

 

The more the designers can make EV's become more like their ICE equivalents, the easier it will be for people to replace their ICE with an EV. Make the charging more affordable and accessible, have batteries that do not have to be so critical of temperature, move controls away from touch screens to actual proper switches and knobs etc, bring prices down to those of ICE cars and get ranges upto similar as those for ICE then a lot of the issues that people cite as reasons not to consider EV for their next car have been done away with as it really just then becomes much the same as having either petrol or diesel, i.e., no special requirements or conditions as far as using and driving are concerned.

 

We need less reliance altogether on software, we have all seen enough problems caused by software failings in our normal day-to-day life with things like computers, TVs, phones, sat nav etc all suffering from bugs / glitches etc that cause them to crash, reboot or lock up etc, we certainly do not need to have software in mission-critical parts of our cars.

 

Castrol reckoned there was more engine damage in the first two minutes of starting an engine compared to 2 hours running on a motorway with a warm engine.

 

What do they know eh, must be mechanic rather than engineers.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8807w6AmE0

 

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Any modern car does this anyways.

 

30 ADAS system.  Almost impossible to crash the car going forwards or backwards.

 

 

*******s - there are many easy ways to crash a car even with an ADAS system.

News just come in from Southampton University who have done a scientific study and discovered that the brake dust from EV's is far more polluting and damaging to peoples health than the tailpipe emissions from a diesel car. This was announced by that wonderful (sic) TV channel GBN. It seems that EV's need to have special material for their brake pads.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

News just come in from Southampton University who have done a scientific study and discovered that the brake dust from EV's is far more polluting and damaging to peoples health than the tailpipe emissions from a diesel car. This was announced by that wonderful (sic) TV channel GBN. It seems that EV's need to have special material for their brake pads.

 

 

That is hard to belive and coming from Lord Haw haw GB News.

 

EV hardly use their brakes, EVs are known to have discs and pads last 200k miles as they are so little used.

 

Tyres i can believe EVs are a bit hard on as a bit heavier on average and the stronger torque from the off.

 

I'll defer until a more credible source but I doubt there will be one as it sounds like bull.

 

I never knew that about the different materials of the brake pads with an EV compared to maybe performance ICE Vehicles.

 

Are the BEV,s actually going through more brake pads than other vehicles, similar or heavier SUV,s / 4x4,s. 

 

COULD. 

Edited 19 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

 

48 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

News just come in from Southampton University who have done a scientific study and discovered that the brake dust from EV's is far more polluting and damaging to peoples health than the tailpipe emissions from a diesel car.

What about brake dust from the very diesel car?

Has all the earlier talks of regen braking meant nothing?

 

Man down the pub will believe anything from another man down the pub. 

Well @Ootohere and @lol-lol thats why I included the line "This was announced by that wonderful (sic) TV channel GBN."

 

I couldn't find a more creditable source right now, maybe one will appear before too long, but I mean GBN, I mean come on, how much creditability do you think they have? Either way, I just thought that if it does indeed turn out to be true, then we have mentioned it, and if not then at least we have looked at it and had a laugh, so don't shoot the messenger hey?

Edited 19 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well @Ootohere and @lol-lol thats why I included the line "This was announced by that wonderful (sic) TV channel GBN."

 

I couldn't find a more creditable source right now, maybe one will appear before too long, but I mean GBN, I mean come on, how much creditability do you think they have? Either way, I just thought that if it does indeed turn out to be true, then we have mentioned it, and if not then at least we have looked at it and had a laugh, so don't shoot the messenger hey?

 

Heard it some months ago, tosh then and still tosh.  Even if EV brake pads were softer to grab better for EVs slightly higher weight they simply are used a fraction compared to ICE cars. From what I heard the biggest issue with EV brakes is they are used so little, as regen does all the work, that freeing them up is the issue as the move and consume the brake pads at such a slow rate !!

 

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Heard it some months ago, tosh then and still tosh.  Even if EV brake pads were softer to grab better for EVs slightly higher weight they simply are used a fraction compared to ICE cars. From what I heard the biggest issue with EV brakes is they are used so little, as regen does all the work, that freeing them up is the issue as the move and consume the brake pads at such a slow rate !!

 

That was also what I understood, as I said maybe in the fullness of time we will know more with facts and figures to prove or disprove the report that GBN claimed was true.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

What about brake dust from the very diesel car?

Has all the earlier talks of regen braking meant nothing?

 

Man down the pub will believe anything from another man down the pub. 

 

Form what I understand EVs can create more dust than a non EV when brakes are used for the equivalent stopping due to thier increased weight etc. but use less overall due to regeneration.  However they also generally have different pad compounds to increase friction values to compensate for the increased weight etc. and those compounds tend to be more toxic when released as brake dust.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 From what I heard the biggest issue with EV brakes is they are used so little, as regen does all the work, that freeing them up is the issue as the move and consume the brake pads at such a slow rate !!

 

 

That's why EV pads tend to be on galvanised backing plates with different glues and mechanical connection between the pad and backing.

'Generally'   is interesting.    What  matters is 'commonly',  & are there really that many EV,s currently and into the future with different brake pads and going through them more often than a Petrol or Diesel car does?

& is lots of the wear not from the car brakes needed to slow the car, but being work by crappy rusty discs.  eg, VW Group vehicles. 

 

(My Cosrsa Electric had 3 sets of Discs in the 3 years i had it, that was replaced twice, just from me not using the brakes other than to come to a stop at slow speeds and when parked they were very rusty and scored.

There was a very good shifter and i drove in D and shifted to be for slowing into corners or coming behind vehicles and just hardly touched the brakes, as i have always done in Automatics.  I have only one foot so i really am aware about using the brake pedal, and how seldom i do.)

 

2 States in the USA are somewhere towards regulations on Brake Pads and the compounds, less copper etc.

This is where things are falling behind.

As to EV,s it needs remembered that there are quite a few models with rear Drum Brakes so enclosed.   These being as with older vehicles. 

Actually collecting brake dust on front brakes would not be difficult with enclosed brakes and cooling is still possible. 

 

Legislate.

  That is the Governments job in the drive to Net Zero.   Lots of big fat EV,s being allowed on the roads, well the Governments have agencies with scientists just like those in Universities.  Actually they went to Universities and did Research....

 

 

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Some reading...

 

 

Quantifying the change of brake wear particulate matter emissions through powertrain electrification in passenger vehicles - ScienceDirect.mhtml

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

7 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Form what I understand EVs can create more dust than a non EV when brakes are used for the equivalent stopping due to thier increased weight etc. but use less overall due to regeneration.  However they also generally have different pad compounds to increase friction values to compensate for the increased weight etc. and those compounds tend to be more toxic when released as brake dust.

There's that weight argument again. It is more of problem created by legacy manufacturer using shared platforms.

 

Are we saying ICE vehicles with same weight don't use those compounds?

 

I've posted this before:
Benchmark:
Tesla Model Y LR: 1986 kg, 378 bhp, 854 l boot. Tesla Model Y SUV Long Range AWD 5dr Auto specs & dimensions | Parkers

Volvo XC60 polestar engineered PHEV: 2145 kg, comparable 399 bhp, 598 l boot. Volvo XC60 SUV Polestar Engineered T8 Twin Engine AWD auto 5d specs & dimensions | Parkers
Audi SQ5 sportback diesel: 2010 kg, 336 bhp, 500 l boot. Audi Q5 Sportback SQ5 TDI Quattro 5dr Tiptronic specs & dimensions | Parkers
VW Touareg R-line tech petrol: 1945 kg 335 bhp, comparable 810 l boot Volkswagen Touareg SUV R-Line Tech 3.0 V6 TSI 340PS 4Motion Tiptronic auto 5d specs & dimensions | Parkers

 

 

 

 

The paper posted by Octo is essentially saying the same thing, there is overall reduction of brake dust due to regen braking.

"Although electric powertrain uptake, vehicle mileage driven and driving styles are dependent upon national policies and strategies, by 2035, we project that total UK brake wear PM emissions would reduce by up to 39% compared with 2020 levels. "

 

39% reduction thanks to EV use of regen braking and considering amount of older ICE vehicles on the road due, it is a huge reduction.

Re compounds on heavy ICE vehicles a lot will depend on things like brake size and type and the vehicles place in the market and model line up (prestige or not sporty or not, top of range or not etc).  They could have larger brakes with the same compounds as ordinary ICE vehicles or not.  EVs may have smaller brakes with higher friction compounds to help keep weight down.

 

Either way a large reduction in dust due to regeneration is welcome but it needs to be balanced with compound toxicity and human exposure levels regarding risk to human health.  For example a 39% reduction in exposure to a compound that is twice as toxic would still be worse than no reduction in a base compound.

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by skomaz

Worth trying to listen to 'The Climate Question' Who wins in the electric vehicle transition,   on BBC Sounds.

This is one that was on the other night on the World Service about EV Batteries and cars being built in Hungary.

The New Factories in Hungary,s 2nd biggest city Debrecen.

Hungary plan on the Electricity being 50/50 Nuclear & Solar.   Nuclear from the new 2nd plant, solar energy being increased greatly over the coming years.

 

The new factories are huge.  They are there to be near the Car factories so that the transportation of batteries can be reduced between factories. 

 

Many locals concerned over pollution from the factories, air and water.  Probably with good cause.

EU Regulations easily ignored in Hungary.  Why German companies has so much manufacturing there.

 

As things are in 2025..  According to these people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Actually, is it not true that unless a car, regardless of its drive train, should not have rusty discs unless it has spent a reasonable amount of time not being used? The pads are supposed to be in light contact with the disc, unlike drum brakes, disc brakes do not have any pull off springs to pull the shoes/pads clear off the drum/disc? 

@Graham Butcher   Supposed to be, 

Should not, might not, will not.   But maybe look in the Briskoda Sections.  Rusty rear brakes, advisory 80% worn etc etc. 

 

Get with the real world,and the sh!te that are fitted by many manufacturers but the biggest one after taking over from Toyota have real crap discs on many models.

That is VW Group.

Stellantis are also pretty crap.  'Generally'. 

 

PS

Chelmsford & that general area is well known for its long winters & Cold and Wintry weather and the high used of Grit / Salt on the roads. 

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

After even a long weekend parked up outside both the front and rear discs on my Octavia 3 have a noticeable rusty film on them, more so this year as it has been wetter than usual.

9 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

After even a long weekend parked up outside both the front and rear discs on my Octavia 3 have a noticeable rusty film on them, more so this year as it has been wetter than usual.

 

Oxidation starts the minute you stop driving when damp

Edited 20 February, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

20,000 miles a year done in the Electric Corsa, used most days and at least every few days it did longer journeys. I just did not use the brakes much and if i did the car stopped and rust was never cleared off the rears and not much off the front.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/485497-vauxhall-corsa-electric-2020-fault-maybe-faults-in-first-6-weeks-various-over-the-next-3-years/page/3

 

I have a MINI, a BMW & a Suzuki sitting and the 2 ICE vehicles have replacement disc,s, neither gets anything more than cosmetic rust which cleans off in just a few miles.

The MINI gets cosmetic rust but not red with rust and scored like the Corsa,s discs were. (Brake Fluid change due in June at 2 year service.)

Many many cars i have had over the years sat about and did not have brake discs as bad as i had with Fabias or the SEAT Alhambra. cars used almost daily.