They had the VW e-UP! and little range.

They were better with the update & the Up!MiiCitigo iV so the Electric sisters, and if they had just spent some of their money on the Small EV only platform POLO, FABIA, A1 size cars they would have been well into getting sales going.

Their problem was that they had this thing about concentration on bigger cars.

They were messing about with Golf & A3 hybrids and EV,s. If they had gone early with a Mid size / Family / Taxi size EV Estate they might have done better than going Crossover / MPV-SUV sizes.

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Playing devil's advocate here, perhaps on some trips, depending on where I need to be, it might be possible to limp home with any range in an electric car and make it with a few miles left in the battery. Now here is the kicker, I also sometimes need to do the same trip the following day, leaving well before sunrise in order to make the arrival time fit the event, there would not be sufficient time to fully charge the battery in order to do that trip next day.

I stress this point because it has been said to me so many times that I should look at getting an EV and charging at home and plan my journeys and maybe look at stopping overnight at my destination and charging while sleeping, all of which is costing more than it costs to drive twice in a reasonable diesel car, which is precisely the reason for having a diesel car.

I like so many others can only afford to tax, insure, purchase 1 car, while I know that some have 2 or more cars and often 1 of those will be an ICE car for those occasions when an EV is just too much of a hassle, but these are the very people who just appear to lack the ability to appreciate that they are actually living the dream, that many others just wish they could be in a similar position, so please let's have some real understanding of these points.

Agreed. I'm fortunate enough to have two cars, one of which will hopefully be an EV from next month but with the technology at it's current state I would never consider one as my only vehicle. The only reason for having one is to lump my 15k annual commuting miles on to it (and as many other miles as possible) which will save me a fair bit of cash on fuel and depreciation. The EV will be quite unlikely to ever go further than 100 miles from home with the Superb taking on any longer journeys.

I really hope the ZEV mandate is dropped at some stage. People should take on new technology at the speed that works for them, not be forced into it.

2 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

Agreed. I'm fortunate enough to have two cars, one of which will hopefully be an EV from next month but with the technology at it's current state I would never consider one as my only vehicle. The only reason for having one is to lump my 15k annual commuting miles on to it (and as many other miles as possible) which will save me a fair bit of cash on fuel and depreciation. The EV will be quite unlikely to ever go further than 100 miles from home with the Superb taking on any longer journeys.

I really hope the ZEV mandate is dropped at some stage. People should take on new technology at the speed that works for them, not be forced into it.

That is a very sensible answer, it should be the technology that drives people switching from ICE to electric, just as it is in all other things. Was there ever a government mandate to switch from Betamax to VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to Streaming for example?

Edited 16 April, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is a very sensible answer, it should be the technology that drives people switching from ICE to electric, just as it is in all other things. Was there ever a government mandate to switch from Betamax to VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to Streaming for example?

Does the use of Betamax / VHS / DVD produce massive amount of greenhouse gas (CO2) that is causing lasting damage to the climate?

Did government sign up to a legally binding agreement to lower the said greenhouse gas?

Is the Paris Agreement legally binding? | World Economic Forum

Without the government mandate, would the switch to decarbonised transport happen quickly enough?

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Their problem was that they had this thing about concentration on bigger cars.

According to 'Auto Mundial', this was because the manufacturers could not make the smaller cars pay ... ie, not enough profit in them.

Just watched a recorded programme which included the Ioniq 5 (possibly the 'n' variant) twin motors with upwards of 600bhp when requested ....

Bonkers, but would love to test one out, Lol.

I know a lot of mid to top end EV's have stupid amounts of power nowadays. I think my licence wouldn't exist for very long if I had one, Lol.

VW Group were and are the ones that can not make enough profits from smaller cars even without Euro 7 Emissions coming to pass. Not enough from ICE vehicles, Electrified or BEV.

(If they maybe ran the business better and paid less in fines / penalties fro cheating they might do better.

if they had less options, choices, and then warranty claims and lemons produced like Euro 4 into Euro 5 engine cars.)

Other manufacturers managed to Small Build cars in Europe or near and make money, Non European Owned Companies building in the same countries VW Group does and are not having to make cuts like VW Group are having to.

Vorsprung Durch Technik. We need to act Simple Clever, no more Das Auto, more Cars people want or can afford.

If the ID3 is the EV equivalent of a Golf them do not mess it up, no battery or software faults or issues.

But VW Group just could not help themselves. They coc'ked it up.

...........................................................

Availability of Home / Work / affordable charging is bound to make the difference for many.

The social divide.

A major factor for maybe half the drivers in the UK if really half have a driveway. I doubt that..

An EV charged at a public charger, a cheap one & 50 pence a kWh, 4 kWh. 4 miles a kWh, 16 miles for £2.00

Common chargers now. 70 pence a kWh. £2.80 of 16 miles.

Lets say that you are wanting 60 kWh @ 50 pence so £30. & 4 miles a kWh, 240 miles.

60 kWh x 70 pence a kWh, £42.

Unleaded @ £6.00 a Gallon.

240 miles @ 44 mpg 5.45 gallons. £32.72

10 time more expensive for the ICE vehicle over a EV that can get a charge at around 7 pence a kWh offpeak,

or even at at normal tariff of 26 pence. That is a Domestic, home, work type thing, not leaving charged at a Public Charger, Fast charger if you left it several hours, or maybe an hour or 2 or 3 on a rapid.

1 hour on an ultra rapid.

60 x 6.7 pence = £4.02

60 x 26 pence = £15.60

Edited 16 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

^^^ They are not going to build in the UK, they are expensive and now there is a 25% Tariff in the USA if from China or they were from the UK.

Damn expensive as it is for what they are.

There is no leather in them, not the steering wheel and not even a little strap on the dash.

No animals were harmed in the producing of the interior.

Edited 16 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Without the government mandate, would the switch to decarbonised transport happen quickly enough?

Will the UK switching to decarbonised transport a few years later make much of a difference when it only accounts for around 1% of global emissions?

52 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

Will the UK switching to decarbonised transport a few years later make much of a difference when it only accounts for around 1% of global emissions?

With attitude displayed in this very thread, I'm not sure it's a matter of "a few years later"......

Same arguement can be used for individuals, would it make much difference if one only account for 0.00000001% of global emissions..... so what happens when vast majority think like this?

Maybe more need to consider their location and their nearest and dearests.

What would closing down Scunthorpe Steele Works or Grangemouth Refinery do for air quality there, or introducing a LEZ in the city they live in.

Not that i know what the air quality is like in those places. I know that at airports there is the smell of fuel coming down from the sky.

On 16/04/2025 at 16:31, wyx087 said:

so what happens when vast majority think like this?

They already do .............

We call them 'American's'. ............

Edited 17 April, 20251 yr by Tilt

14 hours ago, Tilt said:

They already do .............

We call them 'American's'. ............

Californians have steamed ahead with the Green agenda and they are chalk and cheese to the hicks in the mid West and south but Texas is seeing the light too and their install of solar and wind is outstripping california.

If the two states were countries they would be fifth and fifth and about eighth in the world league. Perhaps both should leave the United States and go their own way as US Treasuries tank and do it before much longer and the US put itself in a full tailspin.

EV are a natural extension of having more and more electricity available at lower and lower real prices plus their year on year significant improvement in range etc and the substantially dropping prices YoY.

Edited 18 April, 20251 yr by lol-lol

^^^ Why BEV,s are not a natural extension in the UK for those that can not charge cheaply at home or work or have employers paying for the electricity but need to public charge which is 3 or 4 times the cost of a domestic price per kWh of electricity.

I just renewed and taken the available fixed tariff to see me sorted til next Summer.

I bit of an increase but i might end up renewing later in the year just to see me up till i hand back the car.

What are your thoughts on this angle, my initial thoughts are this is not just electric vehicles but to a lesser degree almost any modern vehicle, although electric ones do offer even greater risks.

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

^^^ Why BEV,s are not a natural extension in the UK for those that can not charge cheaply at home or work or have employers paying for the electricity but need to public charge which is 3 or 4 times the cost of a domestic price per kWh of electricity.

I just renewed and taken the available fixed tariff to see me sorted til next Summer.

I bit of an increase but i might end up renewing later in the year just to see me up till i hand back the car.

that's expensive. I find plugging in the Enyaq means I get off peak power straight away. Last night I plugged in and got off peak through to 7am today. That means my central heating is cheaper to run as is the washing machine, tumble drier etc

On 16/04/2025 at 15:35, Dieselgate said:

Will the UK switching to decarbonised transport a few years later make much of a difference when it only accounts for around 1% of global emissions?

that's a bit like saying "the world's obesity problem needs to be solved but if I choose to eat better and take more exercise will it really make that much difference?". If we all say what's the point then nothing will change

MYGUY really is so worried for the West's National Security and not those in the East. He is in the East.

Odd that he has no concerns for people in China from ELON MUSK / Donald Trump.

Mobile phone / internet devices even when the user turns them off can be tracked by smart people.

Israel more of a worry than China maybe. Risky for some to charge an EV and use the Israel based / owned company processing payments & knowing your location. Taken out by a drone, or maybe a drive bye bye shooting @ a Trump Turnberry Golf Course etc.

VW,s & TESLA are a security risk as far as tracking etc. ICE VW,s not just BEV,s / Electrified ones.

Then as far as a transportable bomb, cam BEV,s not be set up to go into Thermal Runaway remotely?

Even moved remotely to cause the most damage.

Edited 19 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@domhnall Can you do that and get cheap electricity right away without a home charger at your home.

I never signed up for the Eon Next trial drive tariff because i do not have a charger and would not use an App to start charging.

7 hours of the house & car plugged into a 3 pin plug @ 6.7 pence is all i need to top up the small battery or 2 nights to charge empty to full.

Edited 19 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

What are your thoughts on this angle, my initial thoughts are this is not just electric vehicles but to a lesser degree almost any modern vehicle

Usual inconsistency; in the mid-1990s we weren't allowed radio receivers or media players in our offices on some MoD sites, but were allowed any infotainment then existing in our cars although we were asked to switch cellphones off on certain sites since the sites had radio frequency detonators on them.

@Ootohere and @Paws4Thot I hear what you are saying but think about it from outside the circle a little more, step away from it a bit and think it through, and there may just be something behind it all.

I mean, it was all that long ago when Huawei were banned from competing in any telecoms contracts just about anywhere and were actively removed from those that they were already involved in, like the rollout of 5G?

Think about all the electronics that go into vehicles today and compare that with vehicles of 30 years ago and that includes ICE vehicles as well.

Then think about all the Chinese companies like Temu who are always advertising in our faces all the time with their giveaways, such as the current one with a 100% free 10.1" tablet to all new customers.

There maybe something in it after all, I certainly would not discount it, it still, in my mind, remains a possibility, that we shouldn't dismiss entirely from our minds. For those who will never be visiting any sensitive locations, it is not even a concern that they need to worry about.

That is the world we live in.

Wars and religion & supposedly leaders with religion and killing and starving of the many & the theft of countries natural resources. Then there is communism & communist states.

None are any better than the other.

So fight for land and oil & gas or land and rare earths and minerals.

If none of that happened there would be no need for fighters and bombers and war planes or armed drones & nothing for people to go watch at airshows.

10 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@domhnall Can you do that and get cheap electricity right away without a home charger at your home.

I never signed up for the Eon Next trial drive tariff because i do not have a charger and would not use an App to start charging.

7 hours of the house & car plugged into a 3 pin plug @ 6.7 pence is all i need to top up the small battery or 2 nights to charge empty to full.

yes if the car is supported by Octopus then you can use a granny charger

@domhnall Could you explain please what 'the car supported by Octopus' actually means or intails'?

EDIT.

Got it, use of an app and car plugged in.

House getting cheap tariff at same time as car. Not just fixed times, but fixed offpeak times still apply.

Edited 20 April, 20251 yr by Ootohere

How long can an BEV be left without being charged before the battery suffers irreversible long term damage, and just how long can a charged BEV actually sit doing nothing, before the battery runs flat?

There is an electric van that has sitting in a car park in central London for 2 years, trapped as it is one of those where the cars are mechanically parked by stacking robots in towers to maximize the storage space, and the system that stacks and retrieves them has been broken for that length of time and still remains broken!

Here is a link to that story. Van trapped in London car park for two years costs firm £40k - BBC News