1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

One of my sons recently did a lease on an Audi A5 from the local dealers, presales they couldn't do enough for him, promised him this and that etc, now that the deal is done they are not appearing to be as good he first thought. Even down to repairing the faintest of dents in a door from an incident in a car park, they wanted £6,500 to repair it, he also got an independent well established body shop quote of £350 for the same.

Typical sadly.

When I had an A4 and then an A3 I did like going to the Audi dealership. Meet and Greet Audi staff would look you up and down seemingly to check if you were the right calibre to deal with.

Mechanics for Audi, SEAT, SKODA and VW all trained in the same place up at Tamworth butcAudi garages seem to be charging about half as much again hourly rate than Skoda.

Can understand that if they were working on a R8 or R10 but on doggo cars what gives.

Feel same way about BMW and Merc but have usually found Mini staff good oddly.

People I have known who have the several million quid actually mainly I have found don't make a huge effort in dress code going in to the dealers. Premium German brand snobbery I cannot stand but they are getting their just desserts now for their complacency.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

No, sorry but you are still missing the real point, EV's are in fact BEVs, PHEV, and Hybrids as these cars are all covered currently by the governments Net-Zero approach, even though Hybrids and PHEVs have mainly petrol engines and so few PHEVs are ever actually plugged in and charged, they are still being used a BIK tax dodges. Because they are still allowed within the schemes, the fact that so many are listed with delivery miles on as 2nd hand should be ringing alarm bells in your head, they are not cause for celebration.

BEV get the most BIK incentives, PHEV get slightly reduced BIK.

https://pod-point.com/guides/business/company-electric-car-tax

However you want to look at the numbers, it is certainly not pure ICE compared against all hybrids + BEV. All hybrids earn credit towards ZEV mandate but unlike BEV, 1 sale of hybrid does not count as 1 ZEV credit.

Mild hybrids are actually 100% fossil fuel powered, so they are only a hair better than pure ICE cars.

I'm simply pointing out BEV demand seems to be strong (based purely on the AT percentage), just 18% pre-reg being advertised, consider dealers need to hit 28% ZEV mandate this year.

22 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

BEV get the most BIK incentives, PHEV get slightly reduced BIK.

https://pod-point.com/guides/business/company-electric-car-tax

However you want to look at the numbers, it is certainly not pure ICE compared against all hybrids + BEV. All hybrids earn credit towards ZEV mandate but unlike BEV, 1 sale of hybrid does not count as 1 ZEV credit.

Mild hybrids are actually 100% fossil fuel powered, so they are only a hair better than pure ICE cars.

I'm simply pointing out BEV demand seems to be strong (based purely on the AT percentage), just 18% pre-reg being advertised, consider dealers need to hit 28% ZEV mandate this year.

Not according to the DVLA, BEV registrations are currently running about 33% of the 2023/4 registrations, and that includes the ones on Auto trader as 2nd hand, which the clearly are not.

For anybody who needs them -

These are lightweight goal posts, nice and easy to move about as needed 👍🏻

https://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/outdoor/goals/junior-football-goals-portable-set/p/110024?srsltid=AfmBOoo6VY3p9-oAmWv41x8Znmw6S-5uI37uHJSO-FkUfxzonOET-gE5W1Q

22 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not according to the DVLA, BEV registrations are currently running about 33% of the 2023/4 registrations, and that includes the ones on Auto trader as 2nd hand, which the clearly are not.

Where did you get that data?

From DVLA, Q2 2025: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-licensing-statistics-april-to-june-2025/vehicle-licensing-statistics-united-kingdom-april-to-june-2025#new-registrations-of-zero-emission-vehicles

No where near 33% of 2023/2024 registrations as you are stipulating.

?

Do people who tried a BEV not find what a pleasure they can be to drive?

Fantastic in the cold or wet or cold and wet to just get in be it pre conditioned or not.

Almost instant heat and clear interior glass.

Those that have never tried one or more should maybe do so.

& Get an idea what it is they are discussing.

5 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

?

Do people who tried a BEV not find what a pleasure they can be to drive?

Fantastic in the cold or wet or cold and wet to just get in be it pre conditioned or not.

Almost instant heat and clear interior glass.

Those that have never tried one or more should maybe do so.

& Get an idea what it is they are discussing.

Maybe so to some folk and not so to others, it all depends I guess on what each person is looking for from a car. So if that added convenience of having your car pre-warmed or pre-cooled etc, outweighs the other real or not, benefits is all in the mind of the beholder and also of course the social divide in as much able to or not able to charge at home, is the range good enough. If not, can you afford to take the chance of finding a charger when you need one, or even a working one.

Yes I understand about planning your time and journey, but after yes of not having to A/ having to add further time into your drive to carry out charging, and B/ having to pre-plan your route and journey to plan in charge stops is not what everybody wants or needs.

It really is a case of if that suits some folk then, good luck to them.

Can you imagine the roles being reversed, you have been used to driving electric and then all of a sudden being told, that the only way you can continue, is to put up with old cars with old technology, as new electric ones were being banned and ICE cars brought in as replacements? So anyone who was used to getting brand-new cars at regular intervals, would be forced to either switch to ICE cars, or put up with ageing cars, with reduced reliability and fast dwindling spares parts situation and maybe reductions in charging locations?

@Graham Butcher Have you driven a BEV?

It is not just all about owning one.

You can get as a courtesy car, or on loan and charged and ready to go and maybe never need to charge them. Or hire sometime. There are Car Clubs etc.

Are there any members posting on this forum that have only ever had Electric cars, or New ICE vehicles, or ICE vehicles no more than a year or 3 old?

I have never driven a bus, a road roller, or flown a plane but have an idea about them. Not enough to be debating the merits of them though.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by Evolution13

1 minute ago, Evolution13 said:

@Graham Butcher Have you driven a BEV?

The answer to that is no, but you already knew that, we're not discussing what I have driven, but how figures can be twisted either way to reflect a particular point of view.

Look at the figures that SMMT, DLVA produce and the site known as How Many Left which states that their data comes directly from the Dept of Transport and was last updated at the end of October 2025.

Good enough. near enough.

Small point on rare cars, hardly any left on the DVLA database on road or SORN.

They are occasionally totally wrong with some cars.

@Graham Butcher Now today and yesterday discussing the Scores on the doors.

Groundhog day again, the section is full of previous posts on the kidology.

I posted asking about people trying a BEV.

& not about why not to have one or try one. So you have not. I do not monitor you day to day to know what you have been doing. If i read it here i might see. Lots of trip posted i do not read.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by Evolution13

55 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Where did you get that data?

Do you read what people post? Maybe that would a good place to start and also look at the spreadsheet contained in the video, and also note that I have also stated that I have not checked the figures as presented in the spreadsheet, but the sources of those figures is actually quoted.

All anyone here is trying to say, is that you cannot take some figures as being 100% correct, when they have a vested interest in a particular end result.

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

Do you read what people post? Maybe that would a good place to start and also look at the spreadsheet contained in the video, and also note that I have also stated that I have not checked the figures as presented in the spreadsheet, but the sources of those figures is actually quoted.

What video?

Can you post the link to the spreadsheet? Is it hosted on a website such as gov.uk or dvla?

4 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Good enough. near enough.

Small point on rare cars, hardly any left on the DVLA database on road or SORN.

They are occasionally totally wrong with some cars.

That is always going to be the case, nothing is 100% accurate, and I, for one, am not claiming they are.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

?

Do people who tried a BEV not find what a pleasure they can be to drive?

Fantastic in the cold or wet or cold and wet to just get in be it pre conditioned or not.

Almost instant heat and clear interior glass.

Those that have never tried one or more should maybe do so.

& Get an idea what it is they are discussing.

The level of ignorances about is simply incredible considering it is such an important choice, mainly the positive aspects of EVs but a couple of negatives too.

The near instant warning up, being able to thrash from cold without fear one is damaging the engine. The running costs which are a fifth or less if one can charge at home, something we hope will be massively narrowed in the budget in a couple of weeks.

The rarely spoken point that if you arrive home low on charge you ain't going onward for about 3 hours to get a decent chunk more charge, just wish 3 phase was in most houses and that problem would be vastly reduced. One sort of needs a second EV to have on hand. Big like cage early days if Formula e when one had a second car for the secongmd half of the race.

Overall an absolute positive transition. Having a car nearly as simple as a dogem car to drive, one pedal driving. So relaxing compared to ICE.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by lol-lol

@lol-lol no, 3 phase in more houses is not a good thing to have. It can be useful if people follow all the rules both at design stage, installation and in actual usage afterwards. A 240 volt shock is not always going to be fatal, very nasty, but people have been known to survive. A 3 phase system has 415 volts between any 2 phases and deadly.

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol no, 3 phase in more houses is not a good thing to have. It can be useful if people follow all the rules both at design stage, installation and in actual usage afterwards. A 240 volt shock is not always going to be fatal, very nasty, but people have been known to survive. A 3 phase system has 415 volts between any 2 phases and deadly.

Aye I know what 3 phase is as it is what we had at sea. It means motors can be smaller and more powerful for their size.

As i understand it 3 phase is common in many countries and they don't have significantly more electrocution. Ring main on a single phase but heavy duty items would be 3 phase to benefit from the inherent efficiencies of over single.

Car charging is a biggy of course allowing commonly available 11, 16 or 22 kw chargers to be then used.

On a related note is everyone aware our magnificent is starting to slide our voltage down from a nominal 240cmv towards 220 v

I hope they tweak meter readings as I gather it is current that is mainly read and we could getting charged more for less power ie.

Watts = Amp x Volts.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by lol-lol

Got a 3 phase socket in our basement. Not installed by us but I suspect from when the house was built in the 80s. Fairly common AIUI

3 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Got a 3 phase socket in our basement. Not installed by us but I suspect from when the house was built in the 80s. Fairly common AIUI

France, Germany, Scandalised countries gave high percentage of 3 phase at residential properties.

Many US houses have 2 phases - 120V at 180 degrees phase difference to give 240V between phases for e.g. tumble dryers.

1 minute ago, PetrolDave said:

Many US houses have 2 phases - 120V at 180 degrees phase difference to give 240V between phases for e.g. tumble dryers.

Yes, that is true, and as an electrical engineer, it really pains me to say that the Americans have got that part right, just a shame that they only did part of the system right, as many sockets are not polarised and few even carry an earth connection. 110 volts is far less likely to cause fatal shocks and is the reason for all the power tools and power supplies on building sites in the UK being 110V signified by the yellow transformers, tools and cables.

@lol-lol you mentioned a few posts ago today about the staggering level of ignorance that some have about certain topics, I agree and on that point in particular about electrics in homes etc. Anyone with any basic understanding of electrics and calculations knows that electrical power is the result of volts multiplied by the current, so 240watts @ 240 volts equals 1 amp (W=VxI) where W = Watts, V=Volts and I=Amps. Therefore, to get 240watts at 110V requires 2amps (240=110x2).

Take at look at this UK website for Speedy Tool Hire giving reasons for industrial tools being 110V 110v & 240v Power Tools: Differences & Guide | Speedy Hire

An extract from that site says this-

If hiring power tools from Speedy, you usually have the option to choose between 110v and 240v for the tool you need. However, if there is no option of choice, an isolating transformer can convert the voltage of a corded power tool.

Most sites ban 240v tools because of safety. 110v tools are seen as posing less risk of shock, as the current flowing through the cable is half of that with 240v tools. This is important if the electrical wiring or appliance is damaged.

However, the consensus is that it is best to just use 110v tools where possible to minimise the number of products on site.

Likewise, if you want to use a power tool or appliance at home and only the 110v version is available, you can use a transformer to convert the voltage to 240v.

Using a transformer means that you can make high-quality, professional-grade power tools safe to use at home, for any DIY jobs or renovations.

That is also not the only mis-information given on that site either.

But let's get back to the core topic of electric cars.

37 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, that is true, and as an electrical engineer, it really pains me to say that the Americans have got that part right, just a shame that they only did part of the system right, as many sockets are not polarised and few even carry an earth connection. 110 volts is far less likely to cause fatal shocks and is the reason for all the power tools and power supplies on building sites in the UK being 110V signified by the yellow transformers, tools and cables.

Actually the angle between separate phases is 120 degrees.

41 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, that is true, and as an electrical engineer, it really pains me to say that the Americans have got that part right, just a shame that they only did part of the system right, as many sockets are not polarised and few even carry an earth connection. 110 volts is far less likely to cause fatal shocks and is the reason for all the power tools and power supplies on building sites in the UK being 110V signified by the yellow transformers, tools and cables.

True that 110 volt shock is a little less likely to be fatal - however the risk of electrical fires is considerably higher due to substantially higher amperages in circuits.

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by Warrior193
repetition

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

But let's get back to the core topic of electric cars.

A thousand times that!

46 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, that is true, and as an electrical engineer, it really pains me to say that the Americans have got that part right, just a shame that they only did part of the system right, as many sockets are not polarised and few even carry an earth connection. 110 volts is far less likely to cause fatal shocks and is the reason for all the power tools and power supplies on building sites in the UK being 110V signified by the yellow transformers, tools and cables.

The primary reason for using isolating transformers is the fact that the supply is completely isolated from any earth (ground) connection - so that even if a connected appliance develops a fault, there is no return path from the appliance to earth. This is also true for Double Insulated appliances.