Oh dear, oh dear, @Evolution13 , @lol-lol & @classic I'm afraid that you still don't get it, it's not me, but you EV owners!

Just how are you ever going to get it and learn something if you steadfastly refuse to watch those videos that I mentioned, even with my clever "clickbait" for you?

None of the 3 are actually anti-EV; they are against the forced adoption of them worldwide, especially when there are still so many great issues with them, many of which you do not believe are issues.

I do not doubt for a single second that many of them can and will be resolved in the fullness of time, but let's get the biggest issues resolved before even thinking about making them mandatory.

As for ICE poisoning our air in real time, so are many other things: gas heating, bonfires, volcanoes, wildfires, every fire, deforestation on a massive scale, shipping massive amounts of stuff around the world, flying, taking holidays abroad, going on cruises and nuclear energy, which is building up a massive amount of problems for future generations with all the radiation waste, as is the so-called renewable solar and wind generation, as it is claimed currently they are not recyclable and are being buried in landfill.

Well, if none of you are willing to actually watch and enjoy the humour that is present in the videos of their road trip, I'm going to have to tell you. The MacMaster completed the whole thing without having to charge his Taycan and even had enough range left to make the trip back to Mansfield. Not only that, but he actually came first in the Gen 2 Taycan, a real sign of how fast the development has been for Porsche on the road to electrification. A real-world range on this trip of 450miles, now that is PROGRESS.

Edited 31 December, 202531 Dec by Graham Butcher

@classic I watched that OGS video, and what an eye-opener that was. There could have been a really nasty outcome to that, but it also shows that electric cars are not really that maintenance-free. They just swap the oil filter, change etc. for other forms of maintenance, and if that is not carried out according to the manufacturers' instructions and approval, it can be so costly.

Without the owner finding a secondhand electric motor, that whole repair could easily have been at least £7,000 plus, which is not really acceptable for a car with just 43,000 miles on the clock.

Like I've always said, they just swap one set of complications for another set, but the real difference here is that we have over a century of experience and knowledge of how to repair and design ICE systems, electric is just beginning for the second time in history. We currently do not anywhere enough engineers to take on electric repairs.

Is this the UK,s 'we'? There are colleges and training centres now and apprentices or trainees young or older being trained. It is a whole big new opportunity for a transition from whatever jobs are being lost in other industries, or maybe just the millions of unemployed including young people. Mechanics and Motor Engineers and Body repairers and painters are still required and will be for decades and far into the future. The UK,s Governments need to be involved more in what there is now and into the future happening. Easy enough to encourage not just 'Drop in centres for mileage checks on BEV,s & PHEV's for 2028 on but these places to include Quick vehicle inspections & servicing. Kind of like Halford Service Centres or Kwik_Fits etc, but better regulated and the places the Emergency Service Vehicles, Government / Council vehicles / NHS, Utilities etc go for their EV servicing. Right beside the Police & Ambulance depots would be quite a good idea, beside the solar & battery storage and whatever the Local Renewable link is to the National Grid. Low Carbon Transport Hubs. Standardise around England, Scotland & Wales and Northern Ireland if they want. Get the Brain of Britain Ed Miliband MP on the job. Economy of scale. design and materials, standards common through the UK, and modern tech, fire safety, Ai, IT, Cameras & videoing, security. Just a little common sense and business experience that required Politicians to agree to funding then keep well out of the rest.

Edited 31 December, 202531 Dec by Evolution13

33 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Is this the UK,s 'we'? There are colleges and training centres now and apprentices or trainees young or older being trained. It is a whole big new opportunity for a transition from whatever jobs are being lost in other industries, or maybe just the millions of unemployed including young people. Mechanics and Motor Engineers and Body repairers and painters are still required and will be for decades and far into the future. The UK,s Governments need to be involved more in what there is now and into the future happening. Easy enough to encourage not just 'Drop in centres for mileage checks on BEV,s & PHEV's for 2028 on but these places to include Quick vehicle inspections & servicing. Kind of like Halford Service Centres or Kwik_Fits etc, but better regulated and the places the Emergency Service Vehicles, Government / Council vehicles / NHS, Utilities etc go for their EV servicing. Right beside the Police & Ambulance depots would be quite a good idea, beside the solar & battery storage and whatever the Local Renewable link is to the National Grid. Low Carbon Transport Hubs. Standardise around England, Scotland & Wales and Northern Ireland if they want. Get the Brain of Britain Ed Miliband MP on the job. Economy of scale. design and materials, standards common through the UK, and modern tech, fire safety, Ai, IT, Cameras & videoing, security. Just a little common sense and business experience that required Politicians to agree to funding then keep well out of the rest.

There are training centres dotted all over the place, but this is coming way too late in the day. There are owners who have not had the use of their cars because they cannot find anyone willing to work on them, or they are still awaiting for the dealers to receive the required parts; even after some months, they are still waiting.

Many have to pay for the training; many have openly told me personally that they want no part of the EV thing. They say that training will cost them personally, or that their employer will lose out in profits while their staff are away on training courses and some garage owners are not willing to take a chance on anything to do with EV cars because of the requirements placed upon them by Thatcham and insurance companies for storage, particularly if the cars have been in an accident or received some kind of damage to the battery compartment. They require that car is kept at least 15 metres away from anything else while waiting to be worked on, this means that where 100 ICE cars could be stored, only 6 electrics could be stored, thus pushing up their overheads and at the time massively reducing their turnover. To not follow that requirement could render them extremely vulnerable if one did suffer a battery fire and take out with numerous others.

Here is the result of a quick Google search for EV training courses and the cost of this one is a minimum of £2,500 per person.

EV Mechanic Training Centre – London Electric Centre

Edited 31 December, 202531 Dec by Graham Butcher

We are still at well under 2 million BEV,s First Registered in the UK, seemingly thousands or tens of thousands brand new and never on the road, and then all the SORN etc. Loads of time to get the techs for PHEV,s & BEV,s really. I stay in a small town where there are 2 big dealerships with EV techs, then within 20 miles 3 towns with several dealerships selling and servicing ev.s. There are independents, then there is Dundee with more than a Dozen Dealerships selling & servicing EV.s. There are places all around. This is pretty much the same around much of Scotland where there are Main Dealerships. Parts, deliveries and waiting times, back orders are an issue. England needs the Government to get it's act together with Technical Colleges and training. The clock is ticking.

Thatcham & the Insurance Companies and the DVSA or DfT need to open their eyes and have their Employees, agents, associates, loss adjusters open their eyes at Car Storage or compounds with EV,s awaiting repair, parts etc, crash damaged or otherwise because Laws or Legislation or Regulations are being broken commonly. As to training, thank goodness not all businesses have their head in the sand, maybe just hands in the Safety Gloves.

Edited 31 December, 202531 Dec by Evolution13

There will always be risk takers and there will always be those that abide by the rules, and, as we all know only too well, insurance companies will look for any excuse not to honour their part of the deal. So it just conceivable that those who refuse to work on EV's do so with the knowledge of the advice that Thatcham have given to insurance companies and simply not prepared to risk everything, knowing that should the worst happen it would wipe them out all together?

6 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

Get the Brain of Britain Ed Miliband MP on the job

If ever there was an oxymoron... 🤣

In the space of a 3 mile drive there were 2 disabled EVs in the road 1 a 2025 big jag suv and the other some sort of BYD.

External temps are 1.5 degrees so I'm assuming the drivers had been caught out by the drastic range reduction in cold weather, the Jag was being assisted by a "Roadvolt" van as I passed it on the return trip.

Hope they get sorted before it gets and colder / dark

4 hours ago, Crucian said:

In the space of a 3 mile drive there were 2 disabled EVs in the road 1 a 2025 big jag suv and the other some sort of BYD.

External temps are 1.5 degrees so I'm assuming the drivers had been caught out by the drastic range reduction in cold weather, the Jag was being assisted by a "Roadvolt" van as I passed it on the return trip.

Hope they get sorted before it gets and colder / dark

Just driven the same route taking the grandkids home, they seem to have been resolved 🙂

4 hours ago, Crucian said:

In the space of a 3 mile drive there were 2 disabled EVs in the road 1 a 2025 big jag suv and the other some sort of BYD.

External temps are 1.5 degrees so I'm assuming the drivers had been caught out by the drastic range reduction in cold weather, the Jag was being assisted by a "Roadvolt" van as I passed it on the return trip.

Hope they get sorted before it gets and colder / dark

Likewise, over the last 3 days I have seen 3 cars that just died in the middle of a city road causing traffic jams, all of them were being recharged from mobile recovery vans of various motor rescue services and Tuesday I saw one of the 55 new electric buses made by Yutong broken down, halfway out of bus stop layby causing mayhem on the main to the A&E dept and today there was a Yutong double-decker outside Tescos with all the passengers standing around in the freezing cold awaiting a replacement bus to arrive. Given that these buses only went into service on 29th Sept, it does not look very promising for the future.

I also noticed the other day when I saw one at night that the interior lighting is all green?

Edited 3 January3 Jan by Graham Butcher

15 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Likewise, over the last 3 days I have seen 3 cars that just died in the middle of a city road causing traffic jams, all of them were being recharged from mobile recovery vans of various motor rescue services and Tuesday I saw one of the 55 new electric buses made by Yutong broken down, halfway out of bus stop layby causing mayhem on the main to the A&E dept and today there was a Yutong double-decker outside Tescos with all the passengers standing around in the freezing cold awaiting a replacement bus to arrive. Given that these buses only went into service on 29th Sept, it does not look very promising for the future.

I also noticed the other day when I saw one at night that the interior lighting is all green?

There must be some EVs drivers who don't understand there cars and/or their EVs have very little reserve after 0% or they are just not looking at their instruments.

Coming up 5 years i have been driving EVs, all Renaults, and got down to close to zero percent many times and gone well beyond it one ie 12 miles past 0% showing. Car only flashed up the restricted performance warning at minus 11 miles.

Even the Dacia Springs have gone tens of kilometers past zero state of charge being shown and they only have a small traction battery. If somebodies runs out in an EV abd causes a traffic jam the authorities should think about fining the driver. Think of all those dirty ICE cars belching out CO, CO2, NOX and carcinogens in thise queues.

Went to a family meet over New Year, 3 dirty diesels and my EV. We each had about a 200 mile trip. Difference is my fuel cost me about £5, there's would gave cost then £22 at least. No charge required even with the lowish temperatures and a nominal 265 mile range.

Going to get even more pronounced running cost difference when electricity prices drop and fuel price goes up in the middle of the year.

Edited 3 January3 Jan by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

There must be some EVs drivers who don't understand there cars and/or their EVs have very little reserve after 0% or they are just not looking at their instruments.

Coming up 5 years i have been driving EVs, all Renaults, and got down to close to zero percent many times and gone well beyond it one ie 12 miles past 0% showing. Car only flashed up the restricted performance warning at minus 11 miles.

Even the Dacia Springs have gone tens of kilometers past zero state of charge being shown and they only have a small traction battery. If somebodies runs out in an EV abd causes a traffic jam the authorities should think about fining the driver. Think of all those dirty ICE cars belching out CO, CO2, NOX and carcinogens in thise queues.

Went to a family meet over New Year, 3 dirty diesels and my EV. We each had about a 200 mile trip. Difference is my fuel cost me about £5, there's would gave cost then £22 at least. No charge required even with the lowish temperatures and a nominal 265 mile range.

Going to get even more pronounced running cost difference when electricity prices drop and fuel price goes up in the middle of the year.

Yeah, it could be that; it's poor design, as you should never get down to zero and push on beyond; it damages battery health, as lithium batteries can become completely dead if they are allowed to go beyond a certain point and will no longer accept a charge.

My filthy diesel car, which is belching out CO, CO₂, NOX and carcinogens 😴 will actually alert me to refuel when I have 60 miles left, and there is still a safety buffer left in the tank when zero has been reached. The sensible person will refuel then if they cannot comfortably get back to a cheaper source of fuel without reaching zero, even if it is only a few litres if the fuel is more expensive than it is in their home location.

I wish people would stop banging on about ICE vehicles belching out CO, CO₂, NOX and carcinogens when in truth those have always been there and actually have been reduced by around 90%. Nobody ever mentioned that until certain councils saw it as a way of plugging the gap made by government cuts to local authorities by setting up low emission zones in many locations, and as I have repeatedly posted info and links that clearly show that the air quality is not as bad as the authorities claim, with historical data going back years showing the drop in levels. Let's be absolutely clear on this: it's all about revenue generation. If they could not see a way to make money from it, then they would not even mention it.

BEVs are being pushed as a way of reducing CO₂ and thus slowing down the alleged global warming and are part of the net zero drive. When governments actually stop cutting down vital rainforests to build a venue and access roads to COP meeting venues and creating massive amounts CO₂ etc. by flying thousands of people in private jets to and from these meetings, and do so many times during the meeting, maybe others might take it more seriously.

They pass laws that they expect us to adhere to, but they do nothing to restrict their footprint. As discussed before, they ban the charging of BEVs on their premises in Westminster but are quite happy for everyone else to run that risk.

Volks Wagen finally launching the ID2, with a smart move calling it the Polo ID rather than ID to drill in to that heritage.

The good, in fact very good things is the rear seating space is a very good, much better than my Renault 5 and also in moving from RWD to FWD has has the benefits of a very big boot for a B segment car ie over 400 litres.

Main fly in the ointment is the base model is 37 kwh (LFP) which is quite small and that is the one that is the starting price of 25k Euros being quoted. 52 Kw ( L ion NMC ) might be quite close to 30K Euros but then with battery prices falling on a quarterly basis, and improving capacity and cold weather performance, there may be discounts in the following quarters after launch in Europe / UK.

So very good design, buttons where there should be buttons etc. Think it will do well ?

Not sure whether it will be get the £1500 grant or get the £3750 grant from the off, not sure what the battery production is centre and whether the pack will have enough local content to qualify.

Car is being made near Barcelona I gather............

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yeah, it could be that; it's poor design, as you should never get down to zero and push on beyond; it damages battery health, as lithium batteries can become completely dead if they are allowed to go beyond a certain point and will no longer accept a charge.

My filthy diesel car, which is belching out CO, CO₂, NOX and carcinogens 😴 will actually alert me to refuel when I have 60 miles left, and there is still a safety buffer left in the tank when zero has been reached. The sensible person will refuel then if they cannot comfortably get back to a cheaper source of fuel without reaching zero, even if it is only a few litres if the fuel is more expensive than it is in their home location.

I wish people would stop banging on about ICE vehicles belching out CO, CO₂, NOX and carcinogens when in truth those have always been there and actually have been reduced by around 90%. Nobody ever mentioned that until certain councils saw it as a way of plugging the gap made by government cuts to local authorities by setting up low emission zones in many locations, and as I have repeatedly posted info and links that clearly show that the air quality is not as bad as the authorities claim, with historical data going back years showing the drop in levels. Let's be absolutely clear on this: it's all about revenue generation. If they could not see a way to make money from it, then they would not even mention it.

BEVs are being pushed as a way of reducing CO₂ and thus slowing down the alleged global warming and are part of the net zero drive. When governments actually stop cutting down vital rainforests to build a venue and access roads to COP meeting venues and creating massive amounts CO₂ etc. by flying thousands of people in private jets to and from these meetings, and do so many times during the meeting, maybe others might take it more seriously.
They pass laws that they expect us to adhere to, but they do nothing to restrict their footprint. As discussed before, they ban the charging of BEVs on their premises in Westminster but are quite happy for everyone else to run that risk.

An acceptable limit is still way below what current, and certainly ICE cars of the pervious decade and older belch out. A report summarizing several recent reports....

United Kingdom

Air pollution and United Kingdom research documents significant air quality improvements over recent decades whilst highlighting persistent challenges in urban areas and around major transport corridors. Studies reveal that whilst traditional pollutants like SO2 have decreased dramatically, NO2 and particulate matter continue to exceed health guidelines in many locations. The evidence shows both the success of coordinated policy efforts and the ongoing need for additional measures, particularly addressing transport emissions. Explore the research documenting the UK's air quality evolution and what challenges remain for protecting public health.

Overall

• The total cost to the NHS and social care system related to air pollutants between 2017 and 2025 is estimated to reach £1.6 billion (Moldoveanu, 2025)

• The contribution to the annual mortality of human-made air pollution across the country is roughly between 28,000 to 36,000 deaths every year (Moldoveanu, 2025)

• Air pollution in the UK is costing more than £500m a week in ill health, NHS care and productivity losses (Gregory, 2025)

  • Killing more than 500 people a week

• Air pollution in the UK now kills 30,000 people and costs £27bn a year, according to the research, which also said there was no safe level of air pollutants (Gregory, 2025)

• Physical inactivity costs the UK economy an estimated £7.4 billion per year (Healthy Air Coalition, 2025)

Air Pollution and United Kingdom

Air pollution and United Kingdom research documents significant air quality improvements over recent decades whilst highlighting persistent challenges in urban areas and around major transport corrido

Edited 3 January3 Jan by lol-lol

I see mostly Jaguar EV,s on the hard shoulder or stopped in the middle of no place. What i see quite often is cars stopped with punctures, and more often now they are an EV. I also see Electric Vans being put on the back of a Recovery truck. They could be out of charge in the battery or have a puncture,.

29 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

I see mostly Jaguar EV,s on the hard shoulder or stopped in the middle of no place. What i see quite often is cars stopped with punctures, and more often now they are an EV. I also see Electric Vans being put on the back of a Recovery truck. They could be out of charge in the battery or have a puncture,.

Tyre companies do punctures at the roadside in England so I'm pretty sure Scotland does as well. If an EV runs out of charge then a mobile charger comes and tops it enough to reach a fixed charger. So it seems reasonable to suggest that if they are put on recovery truck, that it is highly probable that the problems are more severe and need workshop assistance?

Location location location, real world, real roads Scotland. The ones i drive and see, not the roads or places i do not go or see. Some do some do not do a tyre change in the van at the vehicle, if they carry tyres or the RAC / AA or driver tell them what to carry / put in van if they call the Tyre Centre / Mobile van. There are Mobility BEV,s and the RAC might send out the Kwik Fit van or call requesting it. .. The AA / RAC have universal spares & may escort you to a tyre centre. Local tyre / exhaust centre staff sent out to vehicles they are responsible for that fleet / contract / recovery. PS. Not many travelling where the snow is even worse than back in 2010. Busses, trains, flights cancelled and nobody putting on snow chains, or messing about on knees changing wheels, / plugging tyres. There are still BEV,s going about where possible and ice vehicles where the driver might know how to drive in winyter conditions or have the right vehicle or tyres. But many roads are not driveable. There are electric cars / vans maybe a few miles from Forfar Chargers that get a Charge from a Van and get to the hub to charge. There is little point many places where there is no charger local or that may not be working. Often why people are caught out. Thinking they will get to another charger and it Out of Service, or there are diversions.

Edited 5 January5 Jan by Evolution13

21 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Location location location, real world, real roads Scotland. The ones i drive and see, not the roads or places i do not go or see. Some do some do not do a tyre change in the van at the vehicle, if they carry tyres or the RAC / AA or driver tell them what to carry.. The AA / RAC have universal spares & may eescort you to a tyre centre. Local tyre / exhaust centre staff sent out to vehicles they are responsible for that fleet / contract / recovery. PS. Not many travelling where the snow is even worse than back in 2010. Busses, trains, flights cancelled and nobody putting on snow chains, or messing about on knees changing wheels, / plugging tyres. There are still BEV,s going about where possible and ice vehicles where the driver might know how to drive in winyter conditions or have the right vehicle or tyres. But many roads are not driveable. There are electric cars / vans maybe a few miles from Forfar Chargers that get a Charge from a Van and get to the hub to charge. There is little point many places where there is no charger local or that may not be working. Often why people are caught out. Thinking they will get to another charger and it Out of Service, or there are diversions.

What! I thought Scotland was more efficient in most things when compared to England, looks not to be the case after all.

Most vans i would have thought would not be covered by RAC or AA, and operated by businesses and more likely to use tyre centres as time is money lost to them if they have to get recovered for a puncture and then possibly retrace their steps again.

GREENFLAG, often, and other 4th Emergency Services. I think you thought right. Very efficient Tyre Fitting Centres and mobile fitters, out and about to HGV,s Tractors, Plant etc day and night and now EV,s. Why not recover a BEV on a folding trolley out of the back of a Van.? Well brain for thinking and feet for dancing. There are RWD, FWD and AWD. So they call their chosen Recovery Company or their own vehicles. As they do in the Rest of UK if a EV moving issue. & sometimes just to get it shifted. As to Mobile Charging Vehicles there are ones, but how common in all regions i have no idea. PS. 5 or more business's doing Mobile Tyre fitting just in Forfar, with many different operatives. They do retrace their steps, they work out of their depots, as do the AA / RAC responders who's vehicle they might take home. These are who will be out responding on the A90 or local area. Just as happens all around the country. Local people doing local responses, rural or urban. Then the Recovery can be Relay only with some. Vehicle dependent. Below took all day before the Recovery the RAC called for in the morning came from Montrose to take the car to Dundee where the Dealer was closed by the time the vehicle was loaded so taken to Montrose overnight, then to Dundee the next day where Arnold Clark never even looked at it for 10 days. The Recovery driver was never told he was collecting an EV and had no Wheel trolley,s and had to use Sliders.

Edited 5 January5 Jan by Evolution13

Not a "Car", the word short for carrus /carrum which is wheeled vehicle but similar issues with motorcycle EVs as "car" EVs ......

Pretty amazing for range and charging speeds ie as good as ICE, or actually better for range !

@Evolution13 much the same happens with the fire brigades, they often claim that they weren't told that the car on fire was an EV. That info is important to pass on to fire crews, breakdown services etc.

@Graham Butcher Someone, many someones call 999, they say there is a fire, smoke etc. Not all know what the vehicle is, maybe even the drivers. Not even Officers of the Law. Not everyone would know what a Green Flash on the Reg Plate means if there are ones on the car. Actually many go on about EV,s when there is a vehicle fire and it may not be. As to the RAC / AA resonder, not all know which wheels drive the vehicle, same as many drivers. A BIG WARNING SIGN on the battery electric vehicles roof might be Simply Clever. & a different one on a Hydrogen, Petrol, diesel or LPG vehicle....

Yeah, I was assuming that the person doing the calling would be in most cases the driver who should know what kind of car it was. That said, though I watched a video from the USA where Tesla had pulled up at a gas pump and the battery started off gassing big time and the local police happened to be there. Their quick thinking saved a massive fire as they pushed it with 2 police cruisers away from the pumps. Good job they were there, could have been nasty.

An EV catching fire might well have no driver or passengers with it, and not be seen by whoever that reports it until well alight. Then maybe no Reg no. that the Emergency Services can check in seconds to see what Drivetrain it might have. Even then there is Mild Hybrids, PHEV,s or BEV,s. If only everything was simple. Maybe an ALARM sounding triggered by the vehicle shouting FIRE FIRE Electric vehicle. Are there many EV fires being reported recently?