1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Gridserve don't even do a bit of a cheap offer to get people to use the Magor site, straight in at asking 89p per KWh !

On Friday HMRC lost case to maintain 20% VAT on Public chargers whilst home charging is at 5%.....

Maybe Chancellor will announce this adjustment in the Spring Statement tomorrow ie 3rd of March 2026 ?

Tax tribunal rules EV public charging VAT rate should be 5%

UK court rules ‘domestic’ VAT rate should apply for charging an electric vehicle on the public network, instead of the 20% currently paid by drivers.

That reduction would still make it 78p per KWh, ouch.

1 hour ago, Evolution13 said:

^^^ 'A UK Court', is that a court in England, Great Britain ?

VAT policy is UK wide i was thinking that is good for the goose is good fir the gander. Like Trump's tariff maybe there will be refunds?

2 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

^^^ 'A UK Court', is that a court in England, Great Britain ?

I thought it was a HMRC tribunal that dealt with it. Because VAT is a UK-wide tax managed by HMRC, the tribunal's authority is not limited to "GB".

https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-tax

Edited 2 March2 Mar by Stonekeeper

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That reduction would still make it 78p per KWh, ouch.

Sort of difference is i think that EV drivers which tend to only charge 60% of their battery size so cost might £20 to £40.

In diesel and petrol cars i, and most drivers, fill the tank for eighth or quarter full at a cost of around £60 or more. When fuel got expensive in the past I would just add say £50 of fuel and I would be pleasantly surprised that it seemed to last nearly as long as putting in a full tank.

Those with big fuel tanks may go above the contactless limit if fuel costs real take off ?

Liquid fuels and liquefied natural gas are both being strangled by Iran and damage to oil and gas facilities could take many months to fix.

27 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Sort of difference is i think that EV drivers which tend to only charge 60% of their battery size so cost might £20 to £40.

That is just rubbish, if you need to do the miles then you need the fuel. You cannot make 60% of the fuel do the same miles. Those magic mushrooms are pulling the wool over your eyes again. 🤣🤣

^^^ 'Absolutely'. As it is 'We' who need electricity to charge the car and do not claim back VAT have to get what we need. Maybe the Big Battery vehicles need just 60 % of a charge, which for a 32 kW battery car could be needing 100% charged to get 110 miles.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is just rubbish, if you need to do the miles then you need the fuel. You cannot make 60% of the fuel do the same miles. Those magic mushrooms are pulling the wool over your eyes again. 🤣🤣

Its the way I roll in the Scenic, 65 KWh battery, maybe not in the 2025 Mini Cooper E or Evolution R5..

I see drivers that do not bother that there is a 40 or 50 minute max charging time then £1 a Minute or a £30 fine. Even a £55 fine, or idling time penalty at TESLA Chargers. Van drivers that say, 'really, i need the charge', or one Taycan driver i know that when i pointed out he was a couple of hours over the Max Charge time, to mind my own business. That sort of carry on is why some people hit the emergency stop button when car just abandoned charging. Worse still not charging but locked in. There are people that leave a car so it is not locked in though. Personally i always go to chargers showing RED to see if i can reset them. @lol-lol I know VAT policy is 4 nations wide. It was 'Court' i was questioning. I have been to a Tribrunal against the DWP but it was not A Court.

Edited 2 March2 Mar by Evolution13

Erm, it turns out that DFT have been tracking you EV drivers/owners for the last 2 years via your mobile phones so they know how far drive have driven, where you stop to charge and also of course the cost per KWh of that charge.

It is only a matter of time before they come clean about the cars themselves have also been gathering similar data ready for the PPM charges as well as road charging according to time of days and the type of road used, etc, all fed back via the over the air updates and SOS systems etc.

So it would seem that Vloggers on YT were not quite the tin foil hat wearers and conspiracists that they have been / were called? They had the balls to call it out because they did not have to follow the narrative.

The Department for Transport tracked EV drivers using their mobile data

^^^ Good stuff, hopefully they know how sh!te some Public Charging is especially in Scotland. How people have to stop and start and try charger after charger and even leave without having charged their vehicle. Pity they will NOT be aware of how many BEV,s are not parked up off road at Registered Addresses for the Registered keeper or on the Electoral Roll.

Edited 2 March2 Mar by Evolution13

34 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

^^^ Good stuff, hopefully they know how sh!te some Public Charging is especially in Scotland. How people have to stop and start and try charger after charger and even leave without having charged their vehicle. Pity they will NOT be aware of how many BEV,s are not parked up off road at Registered Addresses for the Registered keeper or on the Electoral Roll.

Oh they will know the latter part because the phone will take them and by experience of having a tracking based insurance for 2 years following my old Superb being off when that numpty did a U turn and smased my car up. The car was tracked precisely and could be seen on digital maps on screen, showing the route road by road and the precise time of day and distance travelled

So they will know if the car is at the registered address etc.

People are driving about in Demonstrators, Courtesy cars, Fleet / Leased vehicles with all sorts of power trains and being Tracked. That is as well as those with Black Boxes they know are fitted.

The R5 has the cabin lights to close to the SOS calling button. Not so clever.

34 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

The R5 has the cabin lights to close to the SOS calling button. Not so clever.

You cannot engage it accidently

1 hour ago, Evolution13 said:

People are driving about in Demonstrators, Courtesy cars, Fleet / Leased vehicles with all sorts of power trains and being Tracked. That is as well as those with Black Boxes they know are fitted.

IIRC last year or the year before there was a Jaguar iPace on the M6 that crashed or something, and the driver claimed that the throttle was jammed open, and the police did eventually take him to court over the incident. At the time he was not arrested but it did subsequently emerge that he had been arrested a few days later. So maybe they were able to interrogate the tracking details once they got them from the DFT?

First, they will take the drivers phone. That can tell the story of the journey and previous ones, so physically they investigate that. Plus the phone service provider info. Then the cars Satnav, GPS, sim, Then the ECU can be investigated, just as with all modern cars. Fatal's have them checking steering angles, brake pedal pressures in the seconds before crashes. BBC2 'Crash detectives'. was brilliant in showing just how they put together the crash using the ECU information and road measurements and scanning................

Edited 3 March3 Mar by Evolution13

Yes that is true, but more cars now probably have that data transmitted over air in real time, such as Teslas with their over the air update and diagnostic features. Others like my Sons Audi TDI A5 also come their own phone apps that also could be spying so all modern cars could be.

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

IIRC last year or the year before there was a Jaguar iPace on the M6 that crashed or something, and the driver claimed that the throttle was jammed open, and the police did eventually take him to court over the incident. At the time he was not arrested but it did subsequently emerge that he had been arrested a few days later. So maybe they were able to interrogate the tracking details once they got them from the DFT?

A trial date has been set for August 3, 2026, at Liverpool Crown Court.

The case is still ongoing

Anyone on here with a Renault Zoe?

22 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Anyone on here with a Renault Zoe?

Mine went back to Renault a few months ago and now have a R5 to replace it. My own worries are inline with vehicle statistics that ICE cars are ten to twenty times more likely to go up in flames. What is this Yank doing commenting on Zoes when they were never imported to the US as far as I know. LEAFs yes and there has been a recall. 700k LEAFs sold worldwide.

New LEAF, MK3, in for World Car of the Year and down to the final 3 I gather. BMW iX3 (EV like LEAF) and Hyundai Palisade (petrol hybrid) and the other contenders.

World Car of the Year down to the last 3 contenders.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dCrPeMBGeTQ

Edited 5 March5 Mar by lol-lol

9 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Mine went back to Renault a few months ago and now have a R5 to replace it. My own worries are inline with vehicle statistics that ICE cars are ten to twenty times more likely to go up in flames.

What is this Yank doing commenting on Zoes when they were never imported to the US as far as I know. LEAFs yes and there has been a recall. 700k LEAFs sold worldwide. New LEAF, MK3, in for World Car of the Year and down to the final 3 I gather. BMW iX3 (EV like LEAF) and Hyundai Palisade (petrol hybrid) and the other contenders.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dCrPeMBGeTQ

Well, firstly, all cars can go up in flames in equal measures and that guff you quoted about ICE cars being 10 to 20 times more likely is just pure bullsh1t if you actually check it properly. That table that people keep posting, if you check it out, has not altered a jot in all the years it has been published/copied/posted etc.

In the early days, yes, it was true simply because of the sheer number of ICE v EV cars, but here's the point, as more EV's are put on the roads and more ICE cars are taken off and scrapped, that balance gets redressed, but NOT according to people like you who stubbornly cling on to fake info from the word go, just so they can puff out their chest and claim that they're doing good for the environment.

The real difference between ICE and EV as far as fires go is not which type catches fire more often, but which type has the potential to be more hazardous to the environment and people and which is more difficult to put out and stay out. That particular accolade goes without any shadow of doubt to the EV, fact. Most ICE car fires do not involve the fuel (if the fuel is on fire, it is also far easier to put out), but a lot EV fires originate from its batteries, which are the fuel, hence the massive recalls because of that fire risk, just accept it.

Yes the Nissan Leaf has been sold in the US and yes there is a massive recall in the US, although that video claimed 20,000, according to the internet, that is more like 45,000 to be recalled in the US were more 165,000 were sold.

Similay here, in the uk it seems that is around 10,000 Leafs being recalled out of 61,000 on the UK roads and there were 270,000 of them produced at Sunderland, so clearly most of them were exported.

Edited 5 March5 Mar by Graham Butcher

There is a recall in the UK because of a BCM issue and 'hesitations' when accelerating, also the Air Bag issue. It is good when issues are identified and get addressed. If only every manufacturer was to be taking actions over Safety Critical faults. PS. There is also the 'Unintended acceleration when using Cruise Control fault' recall.

Edited 6 March6 Mar by Evolution13

1 hour ago, Evolution13 said:

There is a recall in the UK because of a BCM issue and 'hesitations' when accelerating, also the Air Bag issue. It is good when issues are identified and get addressed. If only every manufacturer was to be taking actions over Safety Critical faults. PS. There is also the 'Unintended acceleration when using Cruise Control fault' recall.

Agreed, it is good when critical safety faults are recalled and actually FIXED, rather than a software update, which, judging by other makes with software updates, doesn't actually work in the end. Great in theory to think that a bit code change cures the problem. I'm amazed that people seem to think it is that simple.

Have not experienced enough issues with software on their computers and phones, for instance, where there are constant updates being downloaded and installed. With possibly millions of lines of code in the OS, changing a few lines here and there can have negative effects on other lines that get called when certain conditions are met, which trigger a sub-routine somewhere else in the OS to come into play until those conditions are cleared and it reverts to normal.

AI on the internet seems to think that UK cars would be involved in the fire recall. So maybe it is Nissan being typical, like the others, and it will do a recall if forced into doing one, in the meantime keeping its head down and fingers crossed that they don't have a fire reported in one of the UK Leafs.

There are plenty on UK roads from the first generation through to the latest. Many high miles and lots of charging, taxis, Private hire, hire cars as well as private so if they are going up on fire or we will be hearing about it.

On 04/03/2026 at 20:21, Graham Butcher said:

Anyone on here with a Renault Zoe?

Not 20 times less likely to catch fire but 80 times according to BBC.

Fire Service need to be geared up to do with chemical fires ie EVs, with large fire blankets, rather than inflammable liquid fires ie diesel and petrol vehicles as EVs become the predominate vehicle type.

MYTH: "EVs always catch fire"

Last summer a car park at Luton airport went up in an inferno. Social media speculation, authoritative as ever, pinned it to an EV fire. Thanks social media for your contribution. The fire brigade later said it was a diesel car. Now, an EV battery fire is bad news. It burns hot and is hard to extinguish. Indeed it can ignite again after several days. But burning isn’t a battery’s sole purpose in life. Whereas a combustion car carries a tankful of stuff whose one job is catching rapidly on fire. And it can do so when you don’t want it to.

Electric car fires are very rare. They might stem from a fault or crash, but no official crash test ever caused one. EVs are extensively developed and subject to the discipline of recalls. Electric scooter fires are far more common since they’re mostly uncertified – because they’re illegal.

The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (MSB) reported 23 fires in 611,000 EVs during 2022, or 0.004 per cent in a year, which makes it 20 times less likely to happen than ICE car fires, which burned 3,400 times in 4.4 million cars, or 0.08 per cent. MSB has also recently proven a new way to extinguish battery fires fast. EV FireSafe, funded by Australia’s Department of Defence, has managed to verify fewer than 500 electric car battery fires. Ever. Out of 20m EVs worldwide. That’s 80-odd times rarer than an ICE car fire. If it were a frequent risk, it’d be reflected in insurance premiums. It isn’t.

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Edited 6 March6 Mar by lol-lol