As long as they are getting on with some Official police back Office / Internet work while sitting Square Wheels. Lets not hope on 12 hour shifts and part of that involves sitting in the vehicles a couple of hours at charging hubs. But they can see the world go by. Maybe criminals. They could always unplug and in a couple of minutes be off at a very quick speed and car ready for it, not like some Interceptors that have stone cold engines and fire risks like the BMW,s had.

Edited 27 May27 May by Evolution13

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Essex police now have some EV cars and I've seen them sitting in them charging at my local filling station, which has 4 public chargers. A few times they have had to just sit there and watch their colleagues respond to 999 calls in ICE cars because, presumably, they didn't have enough charge in the battery?

What EVs did they choose ?

I don't credit the police with too much intelligence, and I tended to work with Special Branch which was disbanded and Officers allocated to other sections but I presume it was their procurement division acquiring cars. Planning not their forte and that is despite them getting some massive discounts from manufacturers.

We had some great cars in Customs, mixed selection as nearly all our cars were unmarked, for pursuit work so targets did not cotton one if we bought particular makes.

A Clio Williams was one interesting choice.

There are super long range EVs, the new BMWs iX3 WLTP range of 500 miles, even with all the extra equipment and two plods.

They would get the VAT back and I suspect get some 20% plus discount too from supplier. I still get decent discounts through Blue Light schemes.

We would get some awful Peugeots or the like. Pursuit driving course they do, Devizes was our local centre, 3 to 5 weeks, one for bikes too, only for the brave and skillful.

Edited 27 May27 May by lol-lol

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

What EVs did they choose ?

I don't credit the police with too much intelligence, and I tended to work with Special Branch which was disbanded and Officers allocated to other sections but I presume it was their procurement division acquiring cars. Planning not their forte and that is despite them getting some massive discounts from manufacturers.

We had some great cars in Customs, mixed selection as nearly all our cars were unmarked, for pursuit work so targets did not cotton one if we bought particular makes.

A Clio Williams was one interesting choice.

There are super long range EVs, the new BMWs iX3 WLTP range of 500 miles, even with all the extra equipment and two plods.

They would get the VAT back and I suspect get some 20% plus discount too from supplier. I still get decent discounts through Blue Light schemes.

We would get some awful Peugeots or the like. Pursuit driving course they do, Devizes was our local centre, 3 to 5 weeks, one for bikes too, only for the brave and skillful.

I can't remember now, I'll check on what I see driving around and get back to you on that aspect.

Those of you in the EV community who have not signed up for a fixed tariff or have to rely on public chargers, either in part or in full (assuming they're not company cars and the company pays the bill), then the oil crisis is about to rearend you all as I predicted. There is a massive 13% increase in electricity charges starting 1st July.

So there is still insufficient green energy being generated, indicating that BEVs are still actually responsible for some of the emissions after all.

Energy price cap will rise by 13% from July | Ofgem

.

Not enough Green Energy generated in England seems to be 'Real World'. Not enough of the Green Energy generated on and around the British Isles being actually used. National Grid issue there.

20 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Those of you in the EV community who have not signed up for a fixed tariff or have to rely on public chargers, either in part or in full (assuming they're not company cars and the company pays the bill), then the oil crisis is about to rearend you all as I predicted. There is a massive 13% increase in electricity charges starting 1st July.

So there is still insufficient green energy being generated, indicating that BEVs are still actually responsible for some of the emissions after all.

Energy price cap will rise by 13% from July | Ofgem

See my post in cost of living thread.

Electricity not up by much at all it is gas that is the big riser ie 4 times the rate of increase.

Gas us up, like diesel and petrol, due to the big reductions in supply from the Middle East.

Electricity should fall as more renewables come on line.

Whether to 12M fixed ones gas rate or stay on 3m flexible is the big question.

If gas is over 7p per kwh there will be times when electricity is less than that on tariffs like Agile and charging the cars is almost free or being paid to do so. Businesses should have this available too.

Edited 27 May27 May by lol-lol

True, but the lower rate of increase on electric is more down to politics than anything else, all part of the attempt to push more BEV sales. All the energy companies supply both, so loading the gas to make electric cars look even more attractive. The energy companies will make up any shortfall in profits from electric, via gas hike.

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

True, but the lower rate of increase on electric is more down to politics than anything else, all part of the attempt to push more BEV sales. All the energy companies supply both, so loading the gas to make electric cars look even more attractive. The energy companies will make up any shortfall in profits from electric, via gas hike.

The contracted supply price for the big wind farms is less than 1 p per kwh. It makes you wonder how we get to 25 p per kwh.

We know there is a massive network charge and there is still some policy charges too.

The biggest element for those on a single rate charge is the electricity companies need to have a price high enough that if users use lots in the 1600 to 1900 hours slot, where electricity can cost 40p per kwh or even more.

The answer to being supplied with and buying much cheaper elecricity is the true cost being set in the supply price. So my Agile rates, half hour changes but much of the time kwh unit are less than 20p per KWh and quite oft, like tomorrow, there will be hours when the cost to the user is 10p per KWh. Sometimes 5, zero, -5 or -10 as well.

Many of us have storage batteries, 1, 2,3, 5, 10, 15 KWh and increasingly we have our EVs like my Renault 5 with its 40 KWh battery and Vehicle to Load adapter.

J don't believe fas is being loaded with extra costs it is just that LNG has about doubled in cost and that is jacking up UK supply prices. Electricity is cheap much of the day and night and it is just getting a dual, tri or 48 rate like Agile to exploit the low cost electricity available !

Edited 27 May27 May by lol-lol

@lol-lol Don't forget that this country is known as Rip-Off Britain; that tells you all you need to know about how you get from less than 1p per kWh to 25p a kWh. As for the rest about the gas prices, I think you are underestimating the authorities.

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol Don't forget that this country is known as Rip-Off Britain; that tells you all you need to know about how you get from less than 1p per kWh to 25p a kWh. As for the rest about the gas prices, I think you are underestimating the authorities.

This is why Octopus's Greg Jackson has disrupted the UK suppliers market but there is still more to do and the decoupling of wholesale price from the bid gas prices is the key which is going to require enough battery and hydro storage to get us thru the 1600 to 1900 hours peak when market elecrricity double or treble in cost. Not that difficult and of course Hinckley and Sizewell Cs on line in a few years time. Add to that the massive increase in home solar, already thought to be contributing 3 GWs during daytimes this time of year plus increasing home batteries which i reckon is well into the Gigawatt hours with the static batteries and EVs and suppliers will have to be competitive as significant number of users will make their own.

Wonder if I can sell some to neighbours ? Think I am allowed to sell up to a grands worth without registering.

@lol-lol I said I'd get back to you about Essex police, so here I am. They appear to be using at the moment, some Toyota C-HR and some Peugeot E308 cars.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol I said I'd get back to you about Essex police, so here I am. They appear to be using at the moment, some Toyota C-HR and some Peugeot E308 cars.

Cheers Graham. George knows more about Stellantis cars than I do and I know from what Bjorn Nyland has says both these marques were not making great EVs a couples of years ago but the lastest versions are much much better.

So if you get the very latest spec they are quite impressive but if you get ones that are a year or two old models then they are much less good.

US and Canadaian buyers tend to be very good at ensuring they get say the 2027 model whereas Europeans tend not to be so savy on this particulars. Maybe Stellantis or Toyota batch sold them a load of older soec ones, hard to see though with a reg one can get quite a bit of useful info. I use to have access to PNC checks but it should be used for official business and Officers gave got caught out using PNC for private checks, naughty. Hope they are the better mist modern spec but would not be shocked to hear and lemons / citrons.

Edited Friday at 13:175 days by lol-lol

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Cheers Graham. George knows more about Stellantis cars than I do and I know from what Bjorn Nyland has says both these marques were not making great EVs a couples of years ago but the lastest versions are much much better.

So if you get the very latest spec they are quite impressive but if you get ones that are a year or two old models then they are much less good.

US and Canadaian buyers tend to be very good at ensuring they get say the 2027 model whereas Europeans tend not to be so savy on this particulars. Maybe Stellantis or Toyota batch sold them a load of older soec ones, hard to see though with a reg one can get quite a bit of useful info. I use to have access to PNC checks but it should be used for official business and Officers gave got caught out using PNC for private checks, naughty. Hope they are the better mist modern spec but would not be shocked to hear and lemons / citrons.

Oh yes, these are not the latest models, that's for sure. They have so far; they only have 50 across the county, with another 750 or so to be replaced as and when. But then they also stated that these electric models are only for town policing matters and not intended for traffic or serious crime duties. Presumedly because of poor range and top speed, because if they were to be involved in high-speed pursuits, their range would plummet rapidly. So all the villains need to get would be a high-power ICE car and they could lose any chasing police cars. Thats not so good.

18 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Oh yes, these are not the latest models, that's for sure. They have so far; they only have 50 across the county, with another 750 or so to be replaced as and when. But then they also stated that these electric models are only for town policing matters and not intended for traffic or serious crime duties. Presumedly because of poor range and top speed, because if they were to be involved in high-speed pursuits, their range would plummet rapidly. So all the villains need to get would be a high-power ICE car and they could lose any chasing police cars. Thats not so good.

The TESLA model Y is the logical police pursuit police vehicle in the UK i am sad to say as a non TESLA fan. It has the 4 wheel drive and 155 mph top speed and quite decent range. Not the fastest charging but TESLA finally going to 800v architecture which is solving that. Massive boot which my experience working with Traffic police on multidisciplinary road exercises they love as well as quite high GVW so they can do their boxing maneuvers.

Other police forces ie US have chosen EVs like the GM Blazer, also 500 hp + but we do not have that option.

One wonders if more police forces will choose Chinese brands like BYD, Cherry etc for their value and spec and nice with flash charging in a few minutes which would be sad but European / Western cars seem to be not catching up with Chinese cars.

Having had my own chasing police car and road block ahead which stopped me the police Officer thought I was trying to outrun him, I was on a 1,000 cc Yamaha, he said since he had radio which worked at the speed of light. Fortunately did not use a stinger and we just had a chat. Seemed to really help to gave a female passenger which changes their attitude !

We have had some interesting bad boy cars here in the Midlands, an A6 which someone dropped a Lambo V10 or V12 engine in to. Near 200 mph top speed and acceleration to match but eventually messed up and were caught but for a while gave West Midlands cops a headache.

Edited Saturday at 14:414 days by lol-lol

KIA / Hyundia are manufacturing perfect vehicles for all kinds of Police and Emergency vehicles Interceptor / pursuit vehicles. AWD included. As are BMW. This is why forces have these brends of BEV,s.

And Skoda,s obviously

I notice the Nissan version of the Renault 5 is getting better reviews than the 5 on everything except 'looks'... It does look very similar but has better aerodynamics and range and more options and tech by all accounts.

And yet, What car begs to differ, granted there is not much between them, they give the win to the Renault 5.

46 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

And yet, What car begs to differ, granted there is not much between them, they give the win to the Renault 5.

Interesting... Of the two I think I'd go for the Nissan to avoid the 'ooh look at me trendy' stigma attached to the Renault...

34 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

And yet, What car begs to differ, granted there is not much between them, they give the win to the Renault 5.

I think the looks of the R5 are much nicer but that is personal choice i suppose.

Be nice if the R5 had the 4 level paddle controlled Regen but then my lad does not use it in the Scenic so no loss to him.

There is the 40 / 43 KWh version in the Nissan too and hopefully the big buffer below 0% which i need to test and verify it is similar to the 52 / 55 KWh version.

So pleased with mine will probably buy after the PCP 0% APR period ends and have already bought the £8.99 a month service contract for 3 years.

Think the VW Polo EV will take sales from the 5 as it looks really good but the Cupra Raval version look much more handsome. The back seat and boot much better than the 5. Bit more expensive and only 37 KWh in the smaller battery version sounds on the small side. Lots of great small EVs now that are reasonable to buy, PCP, and low running costs.

Neighbour's kid has an Atto 1, Surf, and MGs are cheaper to buy and I presume they have improved the reliability which was not great in the 4 I gather.

Edited Saturday at 14:444 days by lol-lol

Been looking to change my ICE vehicle for a different model as finding it hard to get onboard my Yamaha Tracer with its 33 inch seat height so looking at cruiser type motorbikes. Fuel consumption is good on middle capacity motorcycles ie up to 100 mpg, looked at the Hero Hunk 440 which is OK performance and stonking value.

Went to the bike dealer in the Scenic and one does not even think about the energy costs of doing a 25 mile trip as would cost less than a pound.

I saw a report last week that fuel receipts from excise duties are down from the usual £2B or so a month and don't think that it is mostly down to EV but down to ICE drivers driving less.

Caravan parks quiter than normal as those towing caravans and driving their motor homes doing less driving (ex-SNP leader not included as i presume he has had to give his back to repay thd £400k he stole from the SNP. Good peice on Have I Got News for You on what he spent the £400k on.

Someone on the forum said they cancelled a journey due to fuel costs.

Is the cost of driving one's ICE car a modifying factor in one's driving behaviour ?

EV drivers reportly drive more miles per year than the average ICE drivers the RAC I recall stated, I presume this gap will be widened in 2026 ?

Could not find an EV bike that was right for me but I expect there will be one along, probably Chinese or Indian, in months rather than years as with cars !

Edited Sunday at 11:233 days by lol-lol

@lol-lol the reduction of income is from those in lower income brackets reserving car use for commuting as inflation is really squeezing them hard and they also tend to be very people who are least likely to be to home charge anyway, so it comes as no surprise.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Is the cost of driving one's ICE car a modifying factor in one's driving behaviour ?

In general no... But what it is doing is reducing spend on other things that involve travel and is therefore indirectly reducing car use.

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol the reduction of income is from those in lower income brackets reserving car use for commuting as inflation is really squeezing them hard and they also tend to be very people who are least likely to be to home charge anyway, so it comes as no surprise.

Yet average inflation is now down to 2.8% lowest its been for a while but I suppose it is fuel, diesel, petrol, inflation that is hurting some people whose have a significant amount of their budget spending on fuel. RAC Fuel Watch seems to be saying petrol is up about 27p a litre from about £1.33 to just under £1.60, so up about 20% but diesel up from £1.41 to £1.85 on average so up 31% retail, VAT inclusive price which would be massive for someone whose fuel bill is much of their outgoings. By judging driving on the motorway many drivers are driving at the NSL and above without any effort to be more economical.

So how is best to help ICE drivers. UK Government has brought in a new mileage rate of 55p per mile to help those using their car for government of business....

Those who cannot claim mileage are faced with a difficult choice I suppose. Try and use less fuel by changing driving to be more economical, lift share, change car for a more economical one or an EV, all inconvenient and costly perhaps to change despite big savings after a change. UK Government has already postponed the Covid 5p a litre excise duty rise starting to kick in September and the Fuel Excise duty is as low as it was in 2009 and in real terms almost half what it was. The high cost of fuel is due to the Middle East War and profiteering by oil companies who have doubled their profits since the start of the ME war. Other countries who have lowered their fuel duties have still experienced road blockages etc and now have a bigger fiscal problem they had before the ME war thanks to Trump and Israel.

I think a lowering of VAT fuel would have been something good to see ie lower the VAT back to 17.5% or even 15% or even lower, have different rates for diesel and petrol. Would have not helped businesses who reclaim the VAT anyways but would have helped retail non business consumers but how much of any reduction would the businesses actually pass on. Belgium has an interesting fuel sales price control mechanism but it was strained due to the ME war. As always a workable and fair solution is not easy but we should try....

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/interview-iran-war-shock-exposes-flaws-in-belgium-s-fuel-pricing-system-industry-representative/3885209

GOV.UK

Expenses and benefits: business travel mileage for employ...

Tax and reporting rules for employers covering the cost of employees using their own vehicles for business travel

www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/

Latest UK petrol and diesel prices

Find the latest petrol and diesel fuel prices with RAC Fuel Watch. In-depth insight into fuel pricing in the UK with the latest data and analysis.

Edited Sunday at 17:563 days by lol-lol