the truth about electric cars

[Winston_Woof]

21 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Ford in the EU & UK are going to have to be First Registering enough BEV,s so as they are not paying a penalty on ICE vehicles sold.  Or their partners might if they use a partner.

That is this year and in the coming years as the percentage needed increases.

 

That means probably getting BEV,s offered that are smaller and cheaper than a Mach-E Mustang or Transit electric. 

nah they can just "buy in" some allowances from companies such as BYD that have technically exceeded the annual target ;o)

Its all part of the big con

Any manufacturer selling more ZEVs than required (and therefore selling fewer non-ZEVs than they were permitted to) will have spare allowances that they can sell on the open market to manufacturers that have not sold enough ZEVs.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2023/09/21/zev-mandate-electric-vehicle-targets-to-remain-for-carmakers

[lol-lol]

25 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Ford in the EU & UK are going to have to be First Registering enough BEV,s so as they are not paying a penalty on ICE vehicles sold.  Or their partners might if they use a partner.

That is this year and in the coming years as the percentage needed increases.

 

That means probably getting BEV,s offered that are smaller and cheaper than a Mach-E Mustang or Transit electric. 

 

If the Explorer is actually an ID something then don't know who they count the EV score against ?

 

[Ootohere]

100% displayed really is what matters.  If there is a buffer then fair emough, but drive ones and you might well know that over 98% you are starting off and do not have braking regeneration, or slowing down without braking. 

In some you still have yet the Reading is 100%.  So really no more energy should be going in.

But if the car uses 0.6 kWh just from turning it on and starting to move there is battery space for some electricity from regenning. 

[lol-lol]

3 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

nah they can just "buy in" some allowances from companies such as BYD that have technically exceeded the annual target ;o)

Its all part of the big con

Any manufacturer selling more ZEVs than required (and therefore selling fewer non-ZEVs than they were permitted to) will have spare allowances that they can sell on the open market to manufacturers that have not sold enough ZEVs.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2023/09/21/zev-mandate-electric-vehicle-targets-to-remain-for-carmakers

 

TESLA make billions from this in the US, as well as their electricity sales on the charging network, and are looking to do the same in Europe now.

 

[Ootohere]

@Winston_Woof  Yes 'buy in'   as i call it Partner. Like VW Group have with MG / SAIC  their owner. 

 

JLR using TESLA for their Pool.   EU or UK Fleet Average C02, and now Zero Emission vehicles.

 

EU or UK and the percentage of Origin of Materials and Parts is going to bite manufacturers in the bum soon enough.

 

'Rules of Origin' 55% to qualify for tariff-free trade between UK & EU, if the vehicle falls short than a 10% tariff is applied on trade between EU & UK.

Edited 28 April by Ootohere

[lol-lol]

20 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol yes I expect they have to read on the high side just like speedos do for a margin of safety. 

 

Indeed, and just like speedo errors certain manufacturers seem to have different tolerances.

Established European manufacturers seem to have more generous tolerances, more warning of running out and manement of that last kwh or two than say the Chinese owned EVs ie BYD, though Polestar and EV seem quite good.

 

Smiths speedo use to be more accurately than Italian Vaugleo speedos like we use to call them ie 2% out compared to say 10% out.

 

[lol-lol]

"Ford Explorer" is an ID4 which Ford have fitted their own body on to. It sounds 80% plus VW.

 

[Ootohere]

There are quite a few 'Reviewers' / Journalists / Vloggers saying it overshadows the VW ID.4.

 

There needs to be many smaller BEV,s getting punted though that Fleets will want to run.

Kia Niro sized and smaller for the use of just a driver, NHS, Carers, Social Workers and many others from Agencies, Local Authorities, Utilities etc etc, 

& obviously just drivers, commuters etc.

 

Not everyone has a family, partner, friends or the need to carry passengers or stuff.   

 

VW Group need to get their small BEV,s out as do Ford and many others that are behind what the Chinese, South Korean, Japanese and even the French are building.

(In what ever country.)

[PetrolDave]

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

"Ford Explorer" is an ID4 which Ford have fitted their own body on to. It sounds 80% plus VW.

But to offset that the new "VW" Amarok Mk2 is actually a Ford Ranger in disquise.

[Stonekeeper]

13 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

"Ford Explorer" is an ID4 which Ford have fitted their own body on to. It sounds 80% plus VW.

 

The MEB platform is used in cars across the VAG group of companies not just the iD4

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform

[Winston_Woof]

If it wasn’t for government legislation would evs actually be a thing?

[skomaz]

37 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

"Ford Explorer" is an ID4 which Ford have fitted their own body on to. It sounds 80% plus VW.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

The MEB platform is used in cars across the VAG group of companies not just the iD4

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform

 

Ah...   So the European Explorer...   I was trying to work out how the iD4 was related to the US Explorer...   Which it clearly isn't.

 

Thanks

[Stonekeeper]

2 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

 

Ah...   So the European Explorer...   I was trying to work out how the iD4 was related to the US Explorer...   Which it clearly isn't.

 

Thanks

 

Yes. The new one soon to be launched,

 

They are also bringing back the Ford Capri name that is an abomination when you see it.

[lol-lol]

16 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

If it wasn’t for government legislation would evs actually be a thing?

 

I think they might have been a bit of a oddball gimmick but the do stand as economic sense in this decade and beyond.

 

My petrol car or the EV both cost about 2.5p a mile for energy but that is because I have a fuel card and can charge at home. 

 

Servicing is much cheaper in the EV, insurance about the same, EV uses its tyres up a bit quicker but as they are 17 and 16 inch they are both quite cheap.

 

With government mileage rate at quite a lowly 45p a mile I can run both at not a loss and the choice to run one or other is tight, its mainly my EV is only good for about 220 miles whereas the ICE car can easily do 300 miles without slighly prolonged stop. Love them both and both make economic sense.

 

 

 

[PetrolDave]

Just now, Stonekeeper said:

They are also bringing back the Ford Capri name that is an abomination when you see it.

The original Capri was often known by an anagram of its name (Crapi), and it's sounds like the new one will inherit that dubious honour.

[Ootohere]

@lol-lol I charged yesterday at home.   Off to see the New MINI Aceman and need all the range.

Previous charging time at home was Monday & 3kWh showing on car 95 % 88 miles - 100 % 94 miles.  3 kWh 60 pence. 

 

Yesterday having done 13 miles since being at 100% coming off a 'Free charger' 

84% 83 miles, to 100% 99 miles.  6 kWh, £1.35. 

 

Charging at home on a normal All Day / Night tariff so much different from a 'Offpeak'  Special tariff home charging.

[lol-lol]

5 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

The original Capri was often known by an anagram of its name (Crapi), and it's sounds like the new one will inherit that dubious honour.

 

As a driver of the beautiful Opel Mante GTE the term Crapi was oft used. Or Ford Cortina in drag.

 

Much enjoyment blowing off 3 litre Crapis in a Doly Sprint too.

 

Edited 28 April by lol-lol

[lol-lol]

32 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol I charged yesterday at home.   Off to see the New MINI Aceman and need all the range.

Previous charging time at home was Monday & 3kWh showing on car 95 % 88 miles - 100 % 94 miles.  3 kWh 60 pence. 

 

Yesterday having done 13 miles since being at 100% coming off a 'Free charger' 

84% 83 miles, to 100% 99 miles.  6 kWh, £1.35. 

 

Charging at home on a normal All Day / Night tariff so much different from a 'Offpeak'  Special tariff home charging.

 

Tomorrow off to Manchester Airport in the Zoe, 102 miles there, I expect to get there with over half the battery left, wind assisted it looks like, coming back could be more interesting if in to stiff breeze.

 

Might stop off at the newly super enhanced Frankley South services with its dozens of Tesla and Gridserve chargers, TESLA they preference with its much lower charging costs, or use the Gridserve cheap AC charger at 22 kWs.

 

Or use the discounted Ionity chargers opposite West Brom, boing going, using the electroverse card and get a Starbucks.

 

Big choices, may not need to charge at all as temperature should be over 10c and range usually close to the 238 miles quoted. Would like to change to a Megane -e or TESLA Model 3 SR if employer finally gets the salary sacrifice scheme going and 340 mile range on the 18 inch wheels sounds perfect.

 

Edited 28 April by lol-lol

[Graham Butcher]

26 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

I think they might have been a bit of a oddball gimmick but the do stand as economic sense in this decade and beyond.

 

My petrol car or the EV both cost about 2.5p a mile for energy but that is because I have a fuel card and can charge at home. 

 

Servicing is much cheaper in the EV, insurance about the same, EV uses its tyres up a bit quicker but as they are 17 and 16 inch they are both quite cheap.

 

With government mileage rate at quite a lowly 45p a mile I can run both at not a loss and the choice to run one or other is tight, its mainly my EV is only good for about 220 miles whereas the ICE car can easily do 300 miles without slighly prolonged stop. Love them both and both make economic sense.

 

 

 

Exactly, that is why it would have made much more sense to just allow them to be purchased as and when people want them. As the technology becomes of age, there will be many more advancements making them more affordable, more desirable and better charging solutions developed, and I'm pretty sure that  they would have picked up pace and become the most popular choice by default once it was highly visible just how reliable they were and just how cheap they can be to run with home charging.

[Luckypants]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

My petrol car or the EV both cost about 2.5p a mile for energy but that is because I have a fuel card and can charge at home.

 

 

 

Having a lot of difficulty working out a 2.5p per mile petrol figure. You either get VERY cheap petrol or your car does over 200 mpg? Petrol is £1.50 a litre here.

Edited 28 April by Luckypants

[Graham Butcher]

6 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Having a lot of difficulty working out a 2.5p per mile petrol figure. You either get VERY cheap petrol or your car does over 200 mpg? Petrol is £1.50 a litre here.

Currently, £1.46 a litre here.

[lol-lol]

16 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Having a lot of difficulty working out a 2.5p per mile petrol figure. You either get VERY cheap petrol or your car does over 200 mpg? Petrol is £1.50 a litre here.

 

Company card, which under current UK tax practices is dealt with directly within monthly pay so if I had three full ups of sixty quid in the month that would be £180 Benefit in kind which is added to my pay slip. I bounce between a 20%, 40% and 45% tax rate tax payer, throttling how much is going in to my pension pot with the aim of finishing the tax year just under the higher tax band and hence only effectively 20% of the price of fuel ie about 30p a litre.

 

30p a litre and the Arkana currently doing 12 miles per litre hence 2.5p cost to me of fuel per mile driven. I get no mileage allowance, rather a car allowance and I can claim as a 9p a mile, 20% of the 45 ppm, as part of self assessment which more than covers tyres, 20k and still tread on the tyres, servicing is £250 a year which is a significant cost, lease cost around  £3k for the year. Happy days.

 

[Graham Butcher]

20 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Company card, which under current UK tax practices is dealt with directly within monthly pay so if I had three full ups of sixty quid in the month that would be £180 Benefit in kind which is added to my pay slip. I bounce between a 20%, 40% and 45% tax rate tax payer, throttling how much is going in to my pension pot with the aim of finishing the tax year just under the higher tax band and hence only effectively 20% of the price of fuel ie about 30p a litre.

 

30p a litre and the Arkana currently doing 12 miles per litre hence 2.5p cost to me of fuel per mile driven. I get no mileage allowance, rather a car allowance and I can claim as a 9p a mile, 20% of the 45 ppm, as part of self assessment which more than covers tyres, 20k and still tread on the tyres, servicing is £250 a year which is a significant cost, lease cost around  £3k for the year. Happy days.

 

Yeah, but that is also just as bad an EV driver or owner who charges at home and says that EV is cheap motoring and that everyone should be doing it, knowing full well that not everyone has the same ability for home charging, or the same driving requirements.

[lol-lol]

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yeah, but that is also just as bad an EV driver or owner who charges at home and says that EV is cheap motoring and that everyone should be doing it, knowing full well that not everyone has the same ability for home charging, or the same driving requirements.

 

What I find weird is an apparent reluctance for companies to,hand out EV fuel cards compared to petrol/diesel cards.  Perhaps employees are not being trusted to not use the evening charge card on other EVs they may have or know.

 

Solution is for companies to only sanction TESLAs as cars as fuel cards are not even needed ie Tasks chargers know which indidivual tesla vehicle is charging.

 

UK governed could,do much by aligning vat at public chargers to home charging vat rate ie 5 %.

 

Public charging costs are falling with the roll out of Tasks v4 chargers so all good for the future.

[Graham Butcher]

2 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

If it wasn’t for government legislation would evs actually be a thing?

Yes, I think they would still be here, people have always loved to have the very latest thing on the block and always will. We had loads of Toyota Prius's around yours ago when there was no government legislation, slowly ramping up the pressure on us to switch.

 

Governments would have done better, I think, to have sat back and watched, facilitated the installation of the national support system for them and let the flow gather pace, just as they have done with rise of mobile phones and then onto smartphones, they have achieved world domination, and it was all done by making them desirable and what has now largely become peer pressure.