Cost of living crisis - diesel, electricity, gas, petrol and being taxed higher then ever before-mitigations ?

[@Lee]

This'll hurt a lot of people.
 

Quote

Millions of households will see their energy bills rise to a typical £1,971 a year after regulator Ofgem increased its price cap by 54%.

The increase, which will on average see bills for customers paying by direct debit with default variable gas and electricity tariffs rise by £693, will take effect in April and follows a 12% rise in October.

 

Those using prepayment meters - around 4.5 million customers - will see a typical increase of £708 to £2,017.

In all, 22 million households are covered by the hikes.

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-millions-face-energy-bill-hike-as-ofgem-lifts-price-cap-12531711

I'm old enough to remember when Vote Leave. led by Alexander Boris DePfeffel Johnson said they'd scrap VAT on energy bills. Yet another lie?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-can-scrap-vat-on-energy-bills-if-we-leave-eu-say-johnson-and-gove-a7057146.html

Closin the Rough storage facility was also a bit daft in hindsight.
 

 

Edited 3 February, 2022 by @Lee

[Ootohere]

Rishi Sunak MP / Chancellor of the Exchequer is on his feet in Parliament about to tell us how he will help the Public and the High Profit Energy Companies.

 

EDIT.

Lend Money to customers.  Put it all on the Government Borrowing which is the populations borrowing.    

 

Hopefully no help to cut energy costs for those with 2nd Homes on those 2nd or 3rd homes / Holiday Houses / AirBnB's etc.

 

Edited 3 February, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

17 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Rishi Sunak MP / Chancellor of the Exchequer is on his feet in Parliament about to tell us how he will help the Public and the High Profit Energy Companies.

Is that the same Rishi Sunak that announced tax cuts for bankers from 8% to 3%? The same Rishi Sunak who's increasing NI by "1.25%" but it's actually a 10% increase?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/20/sunak-cut-corporation-tax-surcharge-banks-keep-city-competitive
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/17487002/national-insurance-rise-confirmed-cost-hundreds/

[@Lee]

I see now HM Treasury headed by Rishi Sunak has announced a £200 discount for customers on their domestic energy bills which is really rather good of him isn't it. Yay!!


Except it's NOT a discount at all. It's a LOAN which customers will have to pay back.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1052320/Energy_Intervention_factsheet.pdf

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, @Lee said:

I see now HM Treasury headed by Rishi Sunak has announced a £200 discount for customers on their domestic energy bills which is really rather good of him isn't it. Yay!!


Except it's NOT a discount at all. It's a LOAN which customers will have to pay back.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1052320/Energy_Intervention_factsheet.pdf

 

Damn just found out I am Tax Band E not D, thought I was D as in the house one one side so I do not get the £150 council tax rebate.

 

Average of £700 on energy is going to be difficult to work around for next  autumn, winter and spring when the price rises really hit with higher usage.

Are both electricity and gas going up similarly ????

 

[skomaz]

3 hours ago, @Lee said:

I'm old enough to remember when Vote Leave. led by Alexander Boris DePfeffel Johnson said they'd scrap VAT on energy bills. Yet another lie?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/we-can-scrap-vat-on-energy-bills-if-we-leave-eu-say-johnson-and-gove-a7057146.html

 

Did he say that VAT on energy bills WOULD be cut or just that leaving the EU would mean that it COULD be cut should the decision by the Government be to do so?  I can only find evidence of the latter at this moment in time and I'm genuinely interested in your definitive evidence as there is a lot being bandied about around this that seems to be based on interpretation.

 

Ta

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Did he say that VAT on energy bills WOULD be cut or just that leaving the EU would mean that it COULD be cut should the decision by the Government be to do so?  I can only find evidence of the latter at this moment in time and I'm genuinely interested in your definitive evidence as there is a lot being bandied about around this that seems to be based on interpretation.

 

Ta

 

The UK Con government recently reiterated this and said that they had stated that they could alter the VAT statuses and rates of goods once the UK was outside the EU and of course they did this with Tampons, female sanitary ware but they have decided not to do this with VAT on energy/fuel as they said they felt it was too blunt an instrument ie many people who can afford the big hit in energy costs so were not in favour of lowering VAT below the current 5% to either zero or some figure between zero and 5 which is possible outside the EU but whilst within the EU when you are suppose to have only one reduce rate.

 

So with £2k pa energy bills about £100 will be VAT and will be paid by everyone even those who are getting rebates so quite a percentage of the two types of rebates the poorest (if they live in lower council tax banded housing) will be getting.  Con government will be getting massive VAT in from not only the 5% vat on electricity and gas energy for houses but the 20% on the very high, and rising, fuel costs as well.   People will see this and make their own minds up hopefully.

 

 

[skomaz]

34 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The UK Con government recently reiterated this and said that they had stated that they could alter the VAT statuses and rates of goods once the UK was outside the EU and of course they did this with Tampons, female sanitary ware but they have decided not to do this with VAT on energy/fuel as they said they felt it was too blunt an instrument ie many people who can afford the big hit in energy costs so were not in favour of lowering VAT below the current 5% to either zero or some figure between zero and 5 which is possible outside the EU but whilst within the EU when you are suppose to have only one reduce rate.

 

So with £2k pa energy bills about £100 will be VAT and will be paid by everyone even those who are getting rebates so quite a percentage of the two types of rebates the poorest (if they live in lower council tax banded housing) will be getting.  Con government will be getting massive VAT in from not only the 5% vat on electricity and gas energy for houses but the 20% on the very high, and rising, fuel costs as well.   People will see this and make their own minds up hopefully.

 

 

 

Ok but the above does not answer my question...   even you have just indicated they said 'could alter'...

 

The rest is just waffle and irrelevant to my question.

[Ootohere]

More crap on here about BREXIT which really has little to do with the price to the public in the UK for Oil, Gas, Electric & other fuels including those for heating.

Ones not mentioned by the Chancellor as far as i heard. Solid Fuel, Wood, Charcoal, Peat & Heating Oil or Bottled Gas.

[@Lee]

Quote

BORIS Johnson and Michael Gove today promise to scrap VAT on household energy bills if Britain backs a Brexit.

In the first cash sweetener of the EU Referendum campaign, they argue that leaving the EU will allow ministers to bin the "unfair and damaging" £2 billion a year tax on gas and electricity prices.

May 2016 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1218703/boris-promises-cheaper-household-gas-bills-if-brits-back-brexit/

But then I'm old enough to remember as far back not just to 2016 but also 2019 when the Con government said in their manifesto that they wouldn't raise IT, Tax or NI. And as for the 'forty new hospitals'. Forget it. That was yet another lie. They redefined what a new hospital could be.  Rishi Sunak has just written off £8.7 Billion worth of PPE. That's what nine mid sized new hospitals would cost. Unusable PPE is or was being stored in containers at a cost of £1,000,000 per day.

Quote

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/piles-unused-ppe-costing-1million-25391211

As for the 'could' and would'. What difference does it make now? When people need the help, they won't even if they could. At least Belgium are cutting VAT on fuel to help out. Did I mention that they're doing that as members of the EU? Other counties also helping their citizens.

Quote

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europes-efforts-shield-households-soaring-energy-costs-2022-02-03/

The tories eh. The 'party of fiscal responsibility'   I'm glad I never fell for that one

[@Lee]

5 minutes ago, roottoot said:

More crap on here about BREXIT which really has little to do with the price to the public in the UK for Oil, Gas, Electric & other fuels including those for heating.

Ones not mentioned by the Chancellor as far as i heard. Solid Fuel, Wood, Charcoal, Peat & Heating Oil or Bottled Gas.

It's related to what we were told so relevent to the discussion IMHO, George. We wouldn't want to start 'airbrushing history' would we  

[lol-lol]

7 minutes ago, roottoot said:

More crap on here about BREXIT which really has little to do with the price to the public in the UK for Oil, Gas, Electric & other fuels including those for heating.  Ones not mentioned by the Chancellor as far as i heard. Solid Fuel, Wood, Charcoal, Peat & Heating Oil or Bottled Gas.

 

I agree with Lee in that before the UK left the EU the UK government said it could alter VAT rates on items like Tampons and electricity but when it has come to it they Con government has come up with a reason not to.   No one should be surprised that the friend of big business has not agreed to apply a windfall tax on the likes of Shell's $20B profit but will let a 25 to 50% rise in energy costs hit the public and particularly the poor who do not have several hundred pounds surplus to meet these new bills.

 

Fudges like providing a £200 loan which will be recovered at £40 a year over the next 5 years is an appalling con and just a slight of hand.  Electricity should become cheaper as renewable energy becomes cheaper and gas needs phasing out as soon as possible as with all fossil fuels.

 

I hope there is an opt out for the £200 "loan", just do not bother passing it to me and invest it in solar, wave and wind please.  I will be investing hundreds if not thousands in to renewable energy generation ie solar and electrical storage.   One big Con, looking forward to Martin Lewis in a couple of hours.  

 

Another advisor to Boris just resigned ashamed of working for for such a shower of people.

 

[Ootohere]

It is History, gone in the past, happened, and the Prime Minister was and is a liar and yet was elected.

So this is now and not then. 

 

So going on and on and being remoaners is helping no one really is it? 

You are achieving nothing unless you want to go glue yourself to the public highway and maybe get free board and lodgings at HMP's.

[Ootohere]

As pointed out on Scottish TV tonight regarding SHELL's Global profits.  They are much in line with the Supermarkets profits if you look at turnover.

[Ootohere]

@lol-lolYou have things so sorted with pensions, investments, high income and low taxation and energy that sometimes i suspect you have some Aberdonian in you.

 

With you doing so well & 

@Leeno longer living or working in the UK you are in perfect positions to see from the outside how the poor people are getting on.

 

The Telly and radio has been so full on 'Poor people' moaning and groaning that have no idea what they pay for energy and even think they are paying more from today.

There are the millions that will be off on their several holidays abroad a year, sailing and flying their craft, doing their thing and a difference of a couple of a grand a year on heating will make no difference to them. 

 

[lol-lol]

11 minutes ago, roottoot said:

It is History, gone in the past, happened, and the Prime Minister was and is a liar and yet was elected.

So this is now and not then. 

So going on and on and being remoaners is helping no one really is it? 

You are achieving nothing unless you want to go glue yourself to the public highway and maybe get free board and lodgings at HMP's.

 

My company made tens of millions of pounds of profit from BREXIT both here in the UK and in France and probably in Belgium and Holland as well, only really missed out in Ireland where there was an opportunity to make huge amounts of money but we were just not established over there.   Personally the B event was a massive cash cow for us in international logistics, for inflation a part of an absolute perfect storm disaster. 

 

The UK not being in the EU is just one of many factors adding to the massive hike in inflation which covers many areas ie the massive new logistics costs moving our foods and other goods from Europe mainland to the UK customs territory but clearly the dash to gas is good in that better than burning coal or oil but we need to using electricity from nuclear and renewable to stop burning hydrocarbon as much as we can.  I have been working today on helicopters probably cannot use anything but hydro-carbons for a good while if even, or maybe could use just hydrogen, but let us use oil for plastics etc and let us stop burning it wherever possible.   

 

[Ootohere]

@lol-lolYou might just have mentioned that a couple of times, or is that a couple of dozen times in the past.

[lol-lol]

12 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@lol-lolYou have things so sorted with pensions, investments, high income and low taxation and energy that sometimes i suspect you have some Aberdonian in you.

With you doing so well  

@Leeno longer living or working in the UK you are in perfect positions to see from the outside how the poor people are getting on.

The Telly and radio has been so full on 'Poor people' moaning and groaning that have no idea what they pay for energy and even think they are paying more from today.

There are the millions that will be off on their several holidays abroad a year, sailing and flying their craft, doing their thing and a difference of a couple of a grand a year on heating will make no difference to them. 

 

 

Cheers George, bit of Cornish and Irish so plenty of Celt (enjoyed the Glasgow footie last night).

 

Everything is a technical challenge, double or treble or quadruple the price of electricity and gas and I will work around it ie download and store my daily electricity at midnight to 5 am to use during the day and use as little gas as possible in my new 94% efficient boiler which will pay for itself within 5 years compared to my old not condensation boiler.   

 

Current government response to help the UK poor is shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic and I predict it will come home to roast very soon as middle class, poor and rich all agree the officers in charge of this ship of fools.   

 

[lol-lol]

7 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@lol-lolYou might just have mentioned that a couple of times, or is that a couple of dozen times in the past.

 

Clouds have silver linings sometimes.

 

Just not sure that it was a consideration of those that wanted "Freedom" that they would make Agility, BDP, CEVA, DHL, Expeditors, Fed EX, Geodis, Hellmann etc etc (cannot think of large British international logistics company) have much larger business turnover and profits.  Thanks for the fish.  

 

[@Lee]

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 ship of fools.   

 

OT for a mo but three rats jumped off the ship today including his long term advisor and director of communications IIRC. Johnson's having a terrible time of it lately bless his little cotton socks 😂

[john999boy]

It has been mentioned in the past about political posts (or even general posts) being needlessly aligned to distant and irrelevant Brexit issues - and I'm absolutely certain the relevant people haven't forgotten!

Certain people have also been asked to totally abstain from political posturing but that doesn't mean for the greater good, others can't join them as I don't want this topic to descend into a 'default meltdown mode' as other topics have.

 

That's all for now........

[skomaz]

3 hours ago, @Lee said:

May 2016 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1218703/boris-promises-cheaper-household-gas-bills-if-brits-back-brexit/

But then I'm old enough to remember as far back not just to 2016 but also 2019 when the Con government said in their manifesto that they wouldn't raise IT, Tax or NI. And as for the 'forty new hospitals'. Forget it. That was yet another lie. They redefined what a new hospital could be.  Rishi Sunak has just written off £8.7 Billion worth of PPE. That's what nine mid sized new hospitals would cost. Unusable PPE is or was being stored in containers at a cost of £1,000,000 per day.

As for the 'could' and would'. What difference does it make now? When people need the help, they won't even if they could. At least Belgium are cutting VAT on fuel to help out. Did I mention that they're doing that as members of the EU? Other counties also helping their citizens.

The tories eh. The 'party of fiscal responsibility'   I'm glad I never fell for that one

 

Nope - sorry but nice try - the 1st one is just the Sun headline inferring what will be done - read the quotes and you'll see that they do not show him saying they 'will' do it and remove Vat on energy bills - only that leaving will allow it to be done...

 

As with @lol-lol's post - everything else is just waffle and doesn't answer the question I asked.

 

Note that I'm not disputing it's a bad situation and that people need help - just that you're providing misleading information.

 

Edit - apologies for this post @john999boy - I've only just seen your comment above having worked down the thread in chronological order.  However, I would like to leave this post as-is and unchanged to correct the inaccuracies being stated by others, provided that is OK.

Edited 3 February, 2022 by skomaz

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

Nope - sorry but nice try - the 1st one is just the Sun headline inferring what will be done - read the quotes and you'll see that they do not show him saying they 'will' do it - only that leaving will allow it to be done...

 

Quote

We’ll have more money to spend on our priorities, wages will be higher and fuel bills will be lower. 
< >

And fuel bills will be lower for everyone.

In 1993, VAT on household energy bills was imposed. This makes gas and electricity much more expensive. EU rules mean we cannot take VAT off those bills.

The least wealthy are hit particularly hard. The poorest households spend three times more of their income on household energy bills than the richest households spend. As long as we are in the EU, we are not allowed to cut this tax.

When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax. It isn’t right that unelected bureaucrats in Brussels impose taxes on the poorest and elected British politicians can do nothing.

From the official Vote Leave literature penned by Johnon and Gove
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/statement_by_michael_gove_boris_johnson_and_gisela_stuart_for_the_sun_vote_leave_to_cut_vat_on_fuel.html
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-vote-leave-energy-bills-broken-promises-poorer-areas-1392403

And that's also my last word on the matter. 
It's also my last word to you @skomazI've had enough of your chicanery, twisting truths and coming to wild conclusions (The assumption behind your question appeared to be that you thought the thread had been reported by someone (probably in your mind J.R. or me - so in itself a pointless dig). ) You, yesterday.
Sorry it's come to this but I've had enough of you and your crap so tara. You're on my ignore list. I value my membership on here so to save myself sanctions I've come to this decision. Maybe you like to think you're playing Devils advocate but all you do is wind people up and then play the victim. You're only the sixth person I've ignored but three of those have left.

Edited 3 February, 2022 by @Lee

[skomaz]

12 minutes ago, @Lee said:

From the official Vote Leave literature penned by Johnon and Gove
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/statement_by_michael_gove_boris_johnson_and_gisela_stuart_for_the_sun_vote_leave_to_cut_vat_on_fuel.html
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-vote-leave-energy-bills-broken-promises-poorer-areas-1392403

And that's also my last word on the matter. 
It's also my last word to you @skomazI've had enough of your chicanery, twisting truths and coming to wild conclusions (The assumption behind your question appeared to be that you thought the thread had been reported by someone (probably in your mind J.R. or me - so in itself a pointless dig). ) You, yesterday.
Sorry it's come to this but I've had enough of you and your crap so tara. You're on my ignore list. I value my membership on here so to save myself sanctions I've come to this decision. Maybe you like to think you're playing Devils advocate but all you do is wind people up and then play the victim. You're only the sixth person I've ignored but three of those have left.

 

Nope sorry...   Your wrong again. 

 

Read what it says...   It doesn't say 'we will cut or remove Vat on energy bills' it says 'we will be able to'. 

 

Well they are able to...   But they didn't say they will. 

 

As for ignoring me that's fine and your prerogative but it's a shame...   If you could prove and evidence you posts there would be no need.  I do not intentionally wind people up, or twist things as you suggest...   Rather I simply like things to be correctly stated.  Some might call it being pedantic. 

[john999boy]

On 03/02/2022 at 14:33, lol-lol said:

Damn just found out I am Tax Band E not D, thought I was D as in the house one one side so I do not get the £150 council tax rebate.

 

That's the odd thing, people with larger houses would normally pay more anyway - so would still benefit from a rebate.

I suppose the line of thinking is that if they can afford the big houses then they can afford the big bills?

 

Bring back the Poll Tax I say! 😉

 

On 03/02/2022 at 18:43, lol-lol said:

Fudges like providing a £200 loan which will be recovered at £40 a year over the next 5 years is an appalling con and just a slight of hand.  Electricity should become cheaper as renewable energy becomes cheaper and gas needs phasing out as soon as possible as with all fossil fuels.

I hope there is an opt out for the £200 "loan", just do not bother passing it to me and invest it in solar, wave and wind please.

 

I'm all for free money and the 'relative' cost to pay back will lessen over 5 years too - maybe a sleight of hand but not really a con. Win, win.

There won't be an opt out option though.