Rear springs...replace?

[fatscoleymo]

Morning, in a bit of a pickle down in France. Sorry for long post.

 

2012 estate cr140.

Drove down 800 miles into France to collect caravan from storage, then towed a couple of hours to a two night stop. Everything seemed fine, car pulled the van no issues as it has before. Then set off south on a planned 6 or 7 hour run to Millau on route to the coast. After a few hours on motorway there was a loud bang, thought maybe I had run over something, but we both saw nothing. I pulled over and had a look around underneath the car and van but nothing was obvious. Continued to Millau but could hear infrequent banging noises all the way. Checked several times again. Made sure it wasn't stuff moving in the van locker or boot. Car pulled van fine, no obvious difference.

Anyway arrived late pm Thursday into Millau and parked up on site. The next morning I was sitting next to the car at 11.00 having a coffee when there was a loud clang from it, like something under tension giving up... 

Decided it need looking at so found a VW main dealer, close by. He managed to have a look at it at 5.00pm Friday. Only had it 10 mins, wheels not off. Said it was not serious (pas grave), just a spring settling into the socket. (At least that's what I thought, he had no English and my French is not great). He managed to get the same sound. Nothing to do. When I got back to the site the car bottomed out on the fairly level track.
We took the car out Saturday morning but experienced no clanging/banging noises. (Caravan not attached).

I then thought maybe it looks low on the rear, so checked the centre of wheel to wheel arch measurement and got 350mm  - I believe it should be 394.... This was no load on the boot and 1/2 tank of fuel. Fronts are 380 against 391, so they seem fine.

 

So what do we think? Could both springs have broken? The car is sitting 45mm lower than it should. I really don't think I can load up 40 kgs of stuff in the boot, 40 kg of dog on the back seat and 75 kg noseweight on the hitch and continue.

 

The garage is open tomorrow, I am thinking of just telling them to fit replacement springs......dampers too?

 

The caravan is only 1200 kg, so not a heavy van.. I keep having to extend out 'overnight' stay here.

 

Thanks

 

Fats

 

[Liger1956]

Can you jack the rear of the car up each side, remove the wheels and have a look at the springs?

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, fatscoleymo said:

Sorry for long post.

Ok, telling us what's already been done is not a "long post" but "very helpful".

 

Did the mechanician understand that you were using the car to pull a caravan several hundred miles? You're right about "pas grave", but if he did he may have said "plus grave" (very serious) and  you misunderstood his accent? A classic failure mode on VAG cars is for the springs to break high up near the "pig tail", and even diagnosing that beyond a lower ride height requires a wheel off inspection on the relevant corner.

 

As for what I'd do, whilst in France get the rear springs replaced. Think about getting specialist towing dampers (eg Monroe Ride Leveller adjustable gas pressurised dampers) after you get back to the UK.

[fatscoleymo]

OK thanks for help.

I pulled onto a car park and took the wheels off. Both springs broken, one at top, one at bottom. At least I know exactly what to tell the dealer to replace. They are marked white, orange, orange. Should I ask for a stronger pair to be fitted?

 

 

[J.R.]

You will be lucky to get what you are given after a long wait, they will just put the chassis number into the computer and order what it says.

 

As Ken said, wait till you are back in the UK before ordering springs better adapted to your use, Carlson will probably post with the best options and part numbers for you. Rear springs are very very easy to fit.

 

I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that after becoming fed up with being screwed around you will end up driving back on the sagging springs anyway, if you do stow your boot load centrally over the axle of the caravan, try less nose weight if it remains stable.

 

good luck!

[J.R.]

Actually from your location it looks like you live in France, or perhaps the caravan is stored there?

[fatscoleymo]

JR  -  We lived in Charente Maritime for 16 years before moving back to UK last year (family reasons), so am well conversant with the vagaries of French garages.. Picked up the van from storage near where we lived and are taking it back to the UK after this 'holiday'. Don't think I can tow it back 1500kms on two broken springs..

 

My springs are colour coded white, orange, orange which seems to indicate weight range 4. From what I have read most UK cars were fitted range 6, so would not be strong enough anyway?

I tried to find the PR code for original fitted but can't make any sense of the codes on the sticker in the boot. Can anybody decifer it for me?

Thanks.

[fatscoleymo]

OK. Finally managed to register with erwin, to find out what springs were originally fitted. Entered the VIN and it said ' This vehicle has outstanding field measures! Please visit an authorised dealer'. I cannot progress further in erwin. Argggggg.

 

Any ideas?

 

I just want to be able to go to the VW dealer at 8.00 tomorrow and convince him that I need at least weight 6 ( or better 7 or 😎 rated springs fitting. Not the currently fitted weight 4.

 

Thanks,

 

Fats

[Breezy_Pete]

I haven't been on erWin for ages, but what you're looking for is the 'vehicle data'; is that not in the 'vehicle specific information drop-down after you've paid your flat rate?

 

[fatscoleymo]

That's what I did, but got the message......

[Carlston]

The build code L03 shows that you have these front springs

 

Front springs 3C0411105C

(1)

3C0 411 105 C

coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark 2 paint marks

orange green yellow

2

PR-L03

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/superb/sup/2012-632/4/411-411001/#1

 

The 1 white dot and 2 orange dots on your rear springs indicates that you have these rear springs

 

Rear springs 1K0511115BH

(1)

1K0 511 115 BH

coil spring 1 paint mark 2 paint marks

rear white orange

2

PR-1JA+0YD

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/superb/sup/2012-632/5/511-511001/#1

 

Kilen/Lesjofors list 1K0511115DF rear springs for the Superb MK2 2.0TDI FWD estate with standard ride height

 

Rear springs 1K0511115DF (2 weight ranges higher than 1K0511115BH)

(1)

1K0 511 115 DF

coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark 1 paint mark

rear white green brown

2

PR-1JA+0YF

 

The following KYB, Kilen/Lesjofors are listed as matching 1K0511115DF

KYB RA6148

Kilen 63135

Lesjofors 4285736

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1k0511115df?search=OEN+1K0511115DF&supplier[0]=246&supplier[1]=85&supplier[2]=253

 

Kilen 63135 and Lesjofors 4285736 are the same spring made in the same factory in Sweden, just sold under two different brand names.

 

Kilen 63135 is listed on ebay for under £24 each

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174765026659?epid=249617349&hash=item28b0cead63%3Ag%3AmtAAAOSwXUJgsNto&LH_ItemCondition=3

 

G07 means that you have these front shock absorbers 3C0413031AT

8

3C0 413 031 AT

gas shock absorber

2

PR-G07

 

These are suitable rear shock absorbers for 0YF weight range rear springs 3C0513049CP

(7)

3C0 513 049 CP

gas shock absorber

rear

2

PR-1JA,1JL+ 0YE,0YF,0YG, 0YH,0YJ,0YK, 0YL

 

Edited 1 May, 2022 by Carlston

[J.R.]

Good luck tomorrow, I am pleased to see that Carlston has once again come up with the goods, now you can insist the garage order the springs with the DF suffix, they will cost more than the Kilen/lesjofors ones but better than paying for the standard BH rear springs & then having to replace them with the uprated ones when you return.

 

I am moving to Bergerac & will be taking another trailer load down in a couple of days including all the tools & trolley jack etc to change springs, (I only recently threw a good pair away), passing not far from Charente Maritime and might be on your return route, if you are in need of my help please PM me.

[fatscoleymo]

Thanks for your help Carleton. And thank you J.R. for your offer, but we will be travelling back to UK up the Eastern side of France.

I went in this morning. He point blank refused to fit anything other than the BH suffix springs. Would not entertain it.  So I will just have to accept it.

The good news is they are doing it Wednesday morning, need the car 3 hours. 

The bad news is it will cost about 500 euros! Unbelievable.... I priced up the springs on Autodoc yesterday and 50-70 euros each. He would not entertain them, got to be his (factory?) supplier.

My daughter used to work for a Vag group independent so she is going to get them to send over an itemised 'quote'  so at least I have something to go in and argue about with him. I won't hold my breath though...

If only one spring had gone a couple of weeks ago....

Turning into a much more expensive holiday.

Thanks all.

 

[fatscoleymo]

Thought about it. Tried a couple of tyre/suspension places and one is doing it Thursday for 347 euros, so a good saving on 500. They will still only fit the BH suffix, would not fit the stronger spring. I believe he said they they not allowed to fit 'modified' parts. 

Anyway leaving it at that. I will email the VW dealer and cancel.

Fats

[J.R.]

Oh well that is some compensation, as for the other stuff, as you say having lived here as long as I then its pretty much what we come to expect.

 

I can't think of a simpler or quicker job than changing rear springs, the garages probably spend more time being creative with their charges than doing the job.

 

At least you will have a stress free drive home knowing you have good (for now at least) springs and that they are unlikely to have screwed up fitting them.

[KenONeill]

3 hours ago, fatscoleymo said:

I believe he said they they not allowed to fit 'modified' parts.

I think that is correct under French law.

[Carlston]

6 hours ago, fatscoleymo said:

Thought about it. Tried a couple of tyre/suspension places and one is doing it Thursday for 347 euros, so a good saving on 500. They will still only fit the BH suffix, would not fit the stronger spring. I believe he said they they not allowed to fit 'modified' parts. 

Anyway leaving it at that. I will email the VW dealer and cancel.

Fats

 

Would a French garage allow you to fit aftermarket rear springs that match the OEM part number exactly and have the coloured dots marked on them, ie. 1 white dot and 2 orange dots?

 

Some aftermarket rear springs that match 1K0511115BH

Quinton Hazell QCS5433

SKF VKDL 31009 Quinton

Spidan 86455

Suplex 39308

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1k0511115bh?search=OEN+1K0511115BH&supplier[0]=1&supplier[1]=10708&supplier[2]=50&supplier[3]=57

 

Rear springs 1K0511115BH

(1)

1K0 511 115 BH

coil spring 1 paint mark 2 paint marks

rear white orange

2

PR-1JA+0YD

 

If you zoom into the above photo, you can see that the dots are 1 white dot and 2 orange dots meaning that this spring matches OEM part number 1K0511115BH.

 

Edited 2 May, 2022 by Carlston

[fatscoleymo]

Hi Carlston and thanks again for your time in helping.

The garage just look up the VIN of the car and will only order and fit items that exactly match the original spec items. 3 places proposed just this. It is difficult with the language barrier and just a different way (and rules) to get through it. 

I have accepted the situation (painful as it is), and hope on Thursday I can drive off with the caravan on the rest of our trip.

I do wonder why though, that Skoda fitted to a large estate a spring with a weight rating of only 4 when the consensus on here is that a rating of 6 is barely adequate. Have you any thoughts on that?

Thanks again,  I've much appreciated everyone's input.

Fats

[J.R.]

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

I think that is correct under French law.

 

The law not that it really exists simply serves to enrichen the players, when it doesn't suit them it suddenly doesn't apply. It basically says  that only manufacturers parts can be fitted for safety related items which they will all claim includes plastic bumpers door mirrors, indicator lenses etc, not that the car manufacturers actually make any of this stuff 🙄, just over the border in Belgium there are motor factors doing a roaring trade, you can have a new bumper sprayed and fitted to your vehicle while you wait (spraying done ahead of your arrival) for less than a third of the cost of a bare unpainted unfitted bumper in France.

 

But you are on a hiding to nothing trying to convince any French tradesman to do what you require rather than what suits them.

 

The EU homologation certificate does not specify what springs are allowable, having had the same discourse 15 years ago at a Skoda dealer I know the rough road package springs come up on their computer and they would have sold them to me but the price as always was silly, I used Grayston helper springs instead.

[J.R.]

At least you will get some springs that are better than the old broken ones, I know of at least 4 people that had to buy LHD dipping headlights to get their car registered in France, in each case they went to the main dealers and explained exactly what they required (as I said before that carries no importance) and in each case the vehicles failed the contrôle technique because they had ordered and fitted at huge cost the exact same RHD dipping headlights that were removed, no apologies, no refunds & they all trotted out the same line, it was the correct part for the VIN number and they were not allowed to fit anything else 🤣

 

One person got it through the CT by my rotating the H4 bulbs in their holders and they used the reciept from the dealer for the wrong non conforming headlights to get their registration, paperwork compliance is the important thing here

[Carlston]

30 minutes ago, fatscoleymo said:

Hi Carlston and thanks again for your time in helping.

The garage just look up the VIN of the car and will only order and fit items that exactly match the original spec items. 3 places proposed just this. It is difficult with the language barrier and just a different way (and rules) to get through it. 

I have accepted the situation (painful as it is), and hope on Thursday I can drive off with the caravan on the rest of our trip.

I do wonder why though, that Skoda fitted to a large estate a spring with a weight rating of only 4 when the consensus on here is that a rating of 6 is barely adequate. Have you any thoughts on that?

Thanks again,  I've much appreciated everyone's input.

Fats

 

Although the rear springs are only weight range 4, they will be new and therefore not broken and not sagging from age and use.

 

See how you get on with them, as not everyone needs harder rear springs.

 

The problem with rear springs, is that it's always going to be a compromise depending on what load you are carrying. Harder rear springs work better with heavier loads, and softer rear springs work better with lighter loads.

 

Edited 2 May, 2022 by Carlston

[fatscoleymo]

Aye, fingers crossed it's sorted on Thursday morning without any other issues and I'm on my way. The original springs pulled the van up and down to Spain, through the Pyranees and all over France so they did the job OK....until...

Thanks

Fats

[J.R.]

Harder rear springs are working well on the Yeti for the abuse it is currently getting without spoiling too much the unladen riden being a 4x4 the ride height was already Tonka Toy like so the increase in rake does not really matter.

 

I have found however, possibly due to the short rear axle overhang that when I couple a trailer with far too much nose weight like tonight it only compresses the rear springs a small amount and the reaction lifts the front suspension instead, the ensemble tows well and I prefer to have a forward towing weight bias but I have to adjust the headlight aim more than on other tow vehicles.

 

The same springs on my MKII Octavia raised the rear too high and caused towball height problems, the answer again was to increase the nose weight and carry load in the rear compartment, that levelled it out but did not raise the front significantly.

[chimaera]

A while back I cross-referenced the various rear suspension options and put the results in a pdf including all VAG part numbers (see attached link). If you're going to continue towing regularly, weight range 14 may be the best option.

 

 

[fatscoleymo]

Thanks Chimaera, I found your pdf and had in fact showed it to the garages to explain the requirement for a stronger spring, but they did not budge. I will revisit the whole thing once back at home and will by then have towed probably 2000 miles so will know how they have done. 

Fats