On 25/06/2022 at 14:32, TheWanderer said:

Anyone with a Mk3 petrol RS improve on it?

 

Yes, by 0.4 😇:

 

 

Although my long term was quite a bit less 🙄

 

Gaz

@tunedude

The UK Government & the Scottish one might well have to put back the years that new ICE Passenger Cars can not be first registered as the UK Government is not involved enough in ensuring the EV charging infrastructure will be in place and public charging and workplace charging.

 

So that is that then,

  Englandshire with it's Coal & Gas & Woodchip powered power stations, even diesel farms & not enough nuclear or renewables is going to have to stick with lots of the energy it is not producing being imported from where there are those generating more than they need from their Nuclear and renewables. 

 

Englandshire will keep bringing some gas out the sea and selling it to others and having to buy back in and continue to buy in oil that others get out of their water or from their lands.

Plenty people, plenty vehicles and not producing enough energy to power them, or when the electricity can be produced cheaply not enough storage facilities for when it can be used in the form of battery storage. 

 

Maybe the oil under the South of the UK can stay where it is for a few more decades until England gets the benefit keeping the revenue for its self. 

Also the lithium from the south coast area will be used for the battery production in England as other materials are already which are produced in the UK and exported.

 

London will keep making money trading on commodities and imports and exports and kidology carbon trading and stuff and financing the lending / leasing and renting of vehicles. 

 

.................

Guilford does look like it is pretty crap to get a 100 kW plus charger unless using the one at the Porsche dealership.  

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

Alternatively, just drill straight down and tap into geothermal energy which is unlimited, clean and safe.

 

A bit of sulphur and small amounts of CO² (useful), zinc are byproducts of it, plus condensation. 

sorry. It's all well and good showing a map of charging points, but as @TheWandererhas already pointed out in his requirements (and in the vast majority of peoples' as well) the charge times are a current issue.

 

Worst case scenario at peak times, you're looking at a little bit of queueing outside the petrol station forecourt, few minutes to fuel up and then possibly another few minutes idling in the shop itself. 20 minutes or so.

 

Until this charging network gets sorted, get it wrong with forgetting to charge and it could see you desperately looking for a charger. But don't worry, the AA has a plan already.....

@tunedudeThe point is that the OP is correct and an EV looks like a total PITA for him.   Even if he looks at the actual matter and not the myths that you see it would still be crap.

Even if he has a Porsche there is no guarantee of getting charged quickly if all around have a Porsche EV as well and no home charging.

Terrible infrastructure and no encouragement to move over from an ICE passenger car he likes and one that on occasions can be efficient if driven carefully. 

 

PS

Petrol Station & Service area chargers tend to be quick ones, as are Commercial Charging hubs where there are no petrol or diesel pumps. 

It is Pubic hubs like park and rides and railway station car parks and free chargers that tend to be slower. 

 

@TheWanderer The light power connection at your garage is all that is needed to use a 3 pin plug charger, which is what many use to get their daily need of charging at the home tariff.  (but then the sale of those is being made illegal.)

 

If thermal energy is so easy to get in your locality it is a bit odd it not being used. 

 Hopefully around your area there will be drilling being done for fracking soon and no pollution of the drinking water.

Also solar and wind generating electricity local so that the lights stay on. 

Shop local,buy local, get your energy / fuel local and not bring it in from places where others pay higher tariffs than the south of England has to. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

On 27/06/2022 at 11:33, roottoot said:

They will never be the fuel for everyone.  But if you are middle aged you can probably carry on driving cars already built now or on the next 8 years for the rest of your life or driving life.   

When I bought my current car, I bought it with the intention that it would be my last car, as I intended to look after it and keep it for many years.

It will most likely be my last ICE car, unless either something catastrophic happens to it, or something unforeseen happens and EV use suddenly gets much more expensive.

But I can see me driving an EV if I do have to replace my Octavia.

Our needs and desires all change with age, and continue to change. You don't just stop changing with you hit 30, more's the pity.

I'm pretty sure by the time I'm in an EV (probably some time in my late 60's at the earliest), I'll be delighted with it, and will have the spare time to chill-out while it charges.

 

But right now, I really like my brum-brum ICE car, even if it's not as nippy as an EV.

I don't mean to get all pseduy about it, but I like the feeling that it's somehow alive when it starts up.

I wouldn't describe myself as a petrolhead, but there is always a slight visceral pleasure in starting up an ICE and hearing it idle contentedly.

Maybe I'm a bit weird, but I really like the sound IC engines make. I suppose this is why Skoda piped fake engine noise into the vRS. (Do they still do that in the MkIV vRS?)

I think I'd miss that in an EV, but as I get older, I think I'll miss it less.

@EnterNameI will drive my diesel later and take it to top up the tank and just because needs must occasionally. Buying fuel breaks my heart now.

 

As much as i have loved cars and anything with engines since about 5 years old and i got my first ones at 11 year old and started as an apprentice mechanic at 15 things change.

Once used to driving EV's i really do not find petrol or diesel engines anything special.

Karts with 2 strokes and then Indoor 2 pedal Karts were my favourite thing, and even going and driving dodgems and to me EV's are just like that, fun and easy even at normal speeds and also the effortless acceleration.

1 minute ago, roottoot said:

Once used to driving EV's i really do not find petrol or diesel engines anything special.

I'm sure once I got used to an EV, I'd love it and would never look back.

It is like e-Bikes,

if you love cycling & can carry on for the foreseeable future maybe do not try an e-bike as push bikes are never quite the same as they were.

I ruined my hobby that i had for decades by going to e-bikes as it is a whole different thing. 

Just to see what happens, I've been accelerating more gently and using a more sedate driving style on this tank...

 

The car believes 500 miles is possible, just

 

Wanna risk it? I wouldn't. 

that'd be an achievement that.

 

Got a jerry can you can lob in the boot as a failsafe?

Alas, I'll need to refill early as I've got a trip along unfamiliar roads with a full boot 😞

 

I'll leave it as an aim for a future tank!

12 hours ago, tunedude said:

that'd be an achievement that.

 

Got a jerry can you can lob in the boot as a failsafe?

Jerry can? Did someone call?

I've wanted to get a 1000km out of a tank but have either been thwarted by strong headwinds or chickened out at about 900km but did not feel too bad about it as the distance was achieved with a four people and full of luggage and booze bought in Tasmania. Probably would have done it but wrong to include my UK guests in the experiment.

 

1.4tsi wagon is pretty economical

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by Gerrycan

EVs aren't for everyone at the moment - particularly not for those in this thread determined that they're not going to be 😆

 

My neighbour has just taken delivery of a Kia EV6 - had it for about a fortnight. It's an excellent car, deceptively roomy and does 320 miles on a full charge. They went away for a few days recently and it cost them 6p per mile. It  would have cost less if they'd availed themselves of the free charging points at Lidl, whilst doing their shopping. It charges to 80% in 20 minutes, apparently (and 80% seems to be the magic figure with many EVs - getting the last 20% in takes a while). They are leasing theirs as a salary sacrifice scheme (NHS) and it costs them under £300 per month for everything - insurance, tyres, servicing, tax etc. As an EV it attracts zero company car tax - it really is a no-brainer for their circumstances.

 

Yes, the current dispersal of charging stations is not great, but is growing rapidly to meet demand - my town is having a new, bigger Lidl built at present and I'll bet it comes with a slew of charging slots - free for use, as they've done the maths and figure if you are going to be there 20-30 mins, you're probaby going to do your weekly  shop at the same time. If Lidl offer free charging, the other supermarkets will have to to remain competitive.

 

Also, consider the introduction of the  ICE. You originally had to buy petrol in gallon cans from your hardware store - but the nationwide appearance of service stations soon sprang up to meet consumer demand.

 

Our electricity generation isn't the cleanest, but it will have to become so to meet our carbon targets - powering cars from a fixed energy source (eg  the national grid) is WAY more economical than using fossil fuels.

 

EVs may not be the ultimate green answer - maybe the miniature fuel cell will eventually be invented, so that you pump water into the car, it splits it into hydrogen annd oxygen, combusts it and expels wateer vapour through the exhaust. But for now, EVs make great economic and environmentaal sense.

 

Will we have to change the way we travel?  Sure - but not by too much - and thats a small pricee to pay to be able to breathe in the inner cities, isn't it?

A Kia EV6 maybe can charge to 80% on a 135 kW charger or more powerful.

so a 50 kWh charger is a different matter, or a 11 kW AC or a 7kW public or home charger.

 

 

@LIDL or other free 7kW chargers they will get about 1.1 kWh for each 10 minutes, so between 2-4 miles added depending on their efficiency driving.

If charging for 1 hour and getting 6.6 kWh and 4 miles to the kWh then 26.4 miles added. 

 

So 30 minutes charging might just top up what you used driving to and from the charger if that was under 7 miles each way.

 

They have a 77.4 kWh battery.   

Charging from low to even 80% there would require lots of hours like 7-8. 

 

Sadly at the 4 chargers near me @ Tesco there are cars that might sit that long on the chargers to save them paying 28 pence a kWh at home. 

I will do my charging late tonight or early tomorrow and if people need a charge i will move and let them. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

From Kia's webpage - 10% to 80% charge in 18 minutes on a fast charger. I wasn't aware Lidl's was such a weak charger, but I'll be interested to see if the new build store has faster ones put in

 

Stopping for 18 minutes on a major route and using a fast charger seems pretty good to me. My neighbours went from about 12% to 100% in a long overnight charge from their home charging point (the cost of which is also factored into their £300 pcm). That's where the 6p per mile was calculated from...

FAST chargers are 7 kW.  That is free chargers.  Some at a ASDA that are not free are 3.6 kW which might suit VW GTE's.

Rapids might be 50kW.

 

If you have a 7 kW home charger and a Off Peak tariff of 5 pence a kWh and you charge for 8 hours and get 56 kW in the battery then that was 56 x 5 pence so only £2.80

If 7 pence a kWh x 56 then £3.92.

If it was my home tariff of 27.2 a kWh it would be £13.23

 

75 kW battery charged @ 5 pence  a kWh = £3.75

A 50 kW Pod Point @ Tesco / Lidl etc at 28 pence a kWh then £21

A 100 plus kW Public charger @ 54 pence a kWh then £40.50

Then the likes of a 350 kW Charger @ 69 pence a kWh and 75 kWh is £51.75.

 

 

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

15 hours ago, TheWanderer said:

Wanna risk it? I wouldn't. 

I've done 500 on a full tank in my car - I went from my home to Lake Windermere and back, 250 miles each way. Trip was at 510 when I got back home. Gauge was reporting 20 miles remaining.

I really wish I'd taken a photo of the screen at the end - but that's what, around 46 MPG?

32 minutes ago, Stoofa said:

I've done 500 on a full tank in my car - I went from my home to Lake Windermere and back, 250 miles each way. Trip was at 510 when I got back home. Gauge was reporting 20 miles remaining.

I really wish I'd taken a photo of the screen at the end - but that's what, around 46 MPG?

Don't need the photo, we believe you. 

There is little risk when the range left is close to distance left to travel as there is usually a few litres more in the tank when the gauge is showing as empty.

More courage is required when the range left is zero and there is 50 miles to go but it is all pretty unnecessary when you can fill up and calculate from the refill amount what your consumption is like. 

I do like the convenience of the quick refuelling of ICE on our now infrequent longer journeys, but I don't like the rising fuel prices, I don't like it that most fuel comes from politically unstable areas which could limit our ability to refuel at all. And I'm feeling increasing guilt from the effects of burning fuel on the environment.

 

I want an EV, but I do question what happens when say 10 cars are all fast charging at the same time at the same station, using the same amount of electricity as a thousand homes (that is a guess), then scale that up when EV sales increase. Electricity is itself subject to limited generation capacity and high demand, especially in winter.

It is about time we all valued energy and conserved its use whatever its form.

I'll be very happy if I can buy an EV with a relatively small battery that can achieve 10km/kwh at say 60 mph (100kph) with a range of 500km. Nothing available at the moment but the Merc EQS has proven it is possible.

Fast Charging is Slow charging.   There might be 50 cars 'Fast Charging'.

Rapid Charging is quicker.

Ultra-Rapid is obviously quicker than Rapid.

 

Turn up at a TESLA SuperCharger HUB and maybe 11 Tesla are already charging and you plug in and charge then leave as the others are doing and new cars are arriving to charge.

 

http://gridwatch.co.uk

 

Scotland has only 1 nuclear power station left and it could have to close anytime.

It can provide 25% of the need for the homes in Scotland.

Renewables can provide over 90%.  But not all is connected to the national grid.

There is no Coal Fired Power stations ion Scotland but there is still dirty gas ones that are used and exports electricity south and Scotland still needs to import in when required.

 

It is time we value energy that can be produced by wind, solar , hydro etc and use it and not pay those that can generate it to turn it off because the National Grid does not want it and there is no why to store other than with Pump Storage / Hydro or export it. 

 

Where there is a limit of generation of electricity and the UK Coal Fired stations that are staying open require the coal that is coming in from Australia ans elsewhere then not good.

When Electricity is easy to produce and not been because of contracts to import from across the channel or the Irish Sea or from Scotland then that is how things are.

 

Charging hubs can have battery storage that gets energy offpeak, can have solar and windfarms providing and even energy that the National Grid does not get. 

 

Some seem to have no idea that Power Stations are required to power Oil Refineries / Cracking plants and that is Oil & Gas that powers them if it is not nuclear.

 

Sadly only 4 Rapid / 50 kW chargers here. Just ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

@gsmdo

This might give you some knowledge for when talking to your neighbour.

Same battery.  He says he is going to a FAST charger, he goes to an Ultra-Rapid charger.

  A totally different thing & unless you have a discount card or subscription they are going to not be cheap. 

 

Cost him £13.51 with the Hyundai card, without that would be £37.28 at IONITY when it is 69p / kWh to the likes of me. 

 

 

 

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

Sorry I don't think that you're going to sell EVs to us for a long time yet. 

 

The super convenient nature of a liquid fuel supply and the fast fill up and go nature of it, is what matters to me and the slow nature of charging points even in "Rapid" or "Ultra Rapid" modes taking upto 18 or 20 minutes isn't acceptable when I'm doing the long journeys, that's 18-20' dead time, whereas the liquid fuel just is so much more convenient (albeit with a significant cost disadvantage).

 

Like I've said give me a performance EV car, with similar prices and specs that can be charged to 100% in 5 mins and they may have themselves a lot of sales. 

this is where I've seen the prospect of interchangeable batteries looks good. Go into the 'battery station', whip you one out, swap it for a freshly charged one and drive away.

 

There are two problems from this I can see. Firstly, you would need to get manufacturers to design a space for this battery which would need to be the same size and voltage for all the cars to use it.

 

Secondly, imagine the amount of fakes coming onto the market. Wish.com specials, ones which are damaged in some way, the opportunity for people to take the mick is endless

We're a long way off EVs that'll meet the sort of ultra range, charge in 5 minutes requirements being discussed here. 

 

Those sort of requirements are an outlier compared to the average motorist and so its not going to be a key development focus for many, if any, of the manufacturers. 

 

For most customers, a requirement to smash out 300 miles plus without a break, so routinely that a half hour charge is such an inconvenience as to dismiss a car, is just not needed. 

 

When you look at the average mileages people do, a 300 mile range would last your average motorist a week or two.

 

Even when I was racking up nearly 20k a year, I can think of a literal handful of times that I did more than 200 miles without an opportunity that I could have topped up an EV. 

 

Edit - and as for the original question, my best measured (rather than obc) full tank average mpg from a 245 is 44.63mpg

Edited 30 June, 20223 yr by Kenai