Power steering Gone

[DariusFabiaestate]

Hi,

I've got some issues with the power steering. Initially it was off when I was starting the car and then came back on after a bit of driving. It was very random, sometimes was alright and sometimes off after starting the car up. 

It then stopped working completely. I have checked all the fuses and they seem to be fine.

I have looked under the mudguard where the pump is place and I've got a TRW powersteering pump.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[KeithCheetham]

You need to get it scanned with a reader suitable for reading all the VAG consoles. Have you checked the fluid level in the reservoir under the battery.

[DariusFabiaestate]

It's an electric power steering pump, do these ones required filling up as well..?

[thomasaspin]

Low battery does this mate 

[nta16]

ETA: thomasaspin posted whilst I was typing, so two for battery - recharge, long, low and slow off the car is best but any good recharge will help (until you deplete the battery again).

 

If it's electric then check the state of charge of your battery, even if the car starts and the lights .  Also check all electrical connections that you can but especially the battery terminal clamps are clean and secure, same for earth connections.

 

You could get a multimeter out, or a scan tool to look for error codes or an appropriate battery charger and recharge for as long and low as possible.  Hot weather isn't good for the battery (or it's charging system) and the recent very hot weather will be worse.

Edited 21 July, 2022 by nta16

[nta16]

I'll bang this in for good measure and to save my typing finger.

 

 

 

[DariusFabiaestate]

I have checked the battery with a mustimeter, and all the fuses. Battery is 13 volts resting. I went to the garage to run diagnostics . It came out as J500 (power steering control module) -004 No Signal/Communication

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

Battery is 13 volts resting.

A touch low, but not enough to suggest a bad cell.

[sepulchrave]

12 hours ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

I have checked the battery with a mustimeter, and all the fuses. Battery is 13 volts resting. I went to the garage to run diagnostics . It came out as J500 (power steering control module) -004 No Signal/Communication

 

Pump unit has failed.

[J.R.]

16 hours ago, nta16 said:

recharge, long, low and slow off the car is best

What difference does it make to the battery (or charger) if it is on or off the vehicle?

[nta16]

15 hours ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

I have checked the battery with a mustimeter, and all the fuses. Battery is 13 volts resting. I went to the garage to run diagnostics . It came out as J500 (power steering control module) -004 No Signal/Communication

Fair enough, the cheap/free, quick and easy basics can often be forgotten.

 

If it's not a wire(s) or connection issue then as has been put it's the pump as the module is part of the pump - not that I know from experience but only what I've read on this forum.

 

[DariusFabiaestate]

So I changed the fluid one day. As you see in the photo the old one looked quite different to the new clear green one. I drove 50 miles the next day and nothing changed. I drove again the day after and within second after I started driving it came back on. Worked fine during the day, I stopped a couple of times. I stopped again right before I got home and this time when I started the car it didn't work. Tried a couple of time and still didn't work. 😐 Any thoughts?

[sepulchrave]

Yes, the pump unit has failed but you're not listening any more, just mucking about swapping pretty coloured oils to no purpose.

[DariusFabiaestate]

Yes, it has failed and then it appears that the fluid change had helped it revive. And then it gone again. Thanks for your helpful comment. Any other thoughts?

 

[sepulchrave]

21 minutes ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

Yes, it has failed and then it appears that the fluid change had helped it revive. And then it gone again. Thanks for your helpful comment. Any other thoughts?

 

 

The fluid change cannot make any difference because it is the brushless electric motor and driver circuitry which has failed, NOT the simple mechanical hydraulic pump it powers.

 

Just buy a secondhand pump unit and swap it out, do it this weekend.

[nta16]

1 hour ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

So I changed the fluid one day.

I am all for changing the fluid and flush cleaning on a car of this age as it will help a little and is preventative maintenance but it is not the cure for your problem and it's difficult to compare the fluids in a photo especially as they're not the same make and model of oil, or same colour.  Even to me, that photo, on my screen, the old fluid doesn't look bad - and remember I am in favour of changing PAS fluid, gearbox oil, axle oil.

 

My thoughts are you have been given good advice in all the posts on this thread (and I include mine in this), the change of oil whilst it might help generally overall probably didn't in this case and the changes were to the battery and charging system responding to the changing use of electrics whilst driving and parked and perhaps how the charging system was able to operate and perhaps battery rested.

 

To cut a long story short only this early evening I proved to a neighbour that the various warnings lights and car not starting was down to the battery despite him recharging it on a (suspect) battery charger and the mulitmeter showing it at 13v.  Rather than giving me a chance to see if I could revive the existing battery he made a "distress purchase" from ECP of a well overpriced new battery warning lights disappear, one after a run round the block, airbag light was still on but that may go with more driving but is a known fault anyway on the model and year.  I thought I had convinced him about the importance of battery health before but like you he saw 13v and thought that was fine, that's just surface charge, looks good as a multimeter readout but it does not mean the battery has any real power or stamina in it to start the car and power all that is required. - ETA: the story is not just about the importance of the battery but also about not being convinced or taking up good advice and not necessarily mine but that from others.

 

Also be aware that batteries and charging systems are affect by the hot and very hot weather we have just had, it can weaken the battery and if not cared for play up now or hasten the problems that come this autumn and winter, more batteries than usual will be replaced this in this year's later season if they were not checked and charged as required now and before the cold, wet day and nights.

 

ETA: Yes, sorry, I forgot, the pump too.

 

Edited 28 July, 2022 by nta16
ETA:

[nta16]

10 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

The fluid change cannot make any difference because it is the brushless electric motor and driver circuitry which has failed, NOT the simple mechanical hydraulic pump it powers.

 

Just buy a secondhand pump unit and swap it out, do it this weekend.

Blimey, you're mellow tonight, next you'll be hugging trees.

[sepulchrave]

13 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Blimey, you're mellow tonight, next you'll be hugging trees.

 

I had to delete a paragraph...

[nta16]

3 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I had to delete a paragraph...

A paragraph!  Getting all creative where you, no wonder you deleted it.

 

I'm fairly sure it might turn out to be the pump (or its little part) but I'm very much hoping it'll be the battery, cheap and easy to recharge the battery, but if it is the pump I will contended the pump only went because the battery wasn't attended to at the start.  Equity of course will be both the pump and battery.

 

[sepulchrave]

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

A paragraph!  Getting all creative where you, no wonder you deleted it.

 

I'm fairly sure it might turn out to be the pump (or its little part) but I'm very much hoping it'll be the battery, cheap and easy to recharge the battery, but if it is the pump I will contended the pump only went because the battery wasn't attended to at the start.  Equity of course will be both the pump and battery.

 

 

I've been round this particular loop with one of my Fabias, what makes pump unit failure a certainty is that it won't communicate with diagnostics.

[nta16]

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

what makes pump unit failure a certainty

PM me tonight's Euromillions winning number please.

 

Must admit I forgot about communication code but that could have other causes especially on an unseen vehicle, and anyway Doris Stokes might having it talking.

 

I not disputing your knowledge and experience just like to do the quick, easy checks that keep your hands (relatively) clean first and generally saves any manly getting down and dirty, on the ground, or backache leaning over.   My neighbour insisted his recharged, 13v, battery was fine and wasn't the reason the car wouldn't start, or for the warning lights, it's still charging now from 7pm last night on my old 4amp charger.  In fact I ought to move it to somewhere cooler and put it on my old trickle/maintenance/conditioner charger to top it up for testing with something 12v to see if it's off to meet Doris - though we've not heard from her.

 

Edited 29 July, 2022 by nta16

[sepulchrave]

Stop blathering on so, you obviously don't need the money, I too live in a probabilistic universe but probabilities approaching unity are close enough to certainty for us engineering types.

 

Euromillions jackpot: 140,000,000 to 1.

 

PAS Pump unit failure: 10 to 1 on.

 

My advice? Don't play the lottery but do change the pump unit.

 

Blather, blather, blather...

[DariusFabiaestate]

I went to check the battery at halfords and it did come out as 365 out of 550. I went for a drive on the motorway while slightly over-revving and the assisted power steering came back on sometime later. I'll borrow a battery charger and I'll leave it on charge over the weekend hopefully that will be the end of it. There is a chance that the battery could have been the main issue. My dashcam remained on a 3/4 months back and killed my battery, it might've not been able to fully recharge since then. Thanks for the advice.

Edited 29 July, 2022 by DariusFabiaestate

[thomasaspin]

40 minutes ago, DariusFabiaestate said:

I went to check the battery at halfords and it did come out as 365 out of 550. I went for a drive on the motorway while slightly over-revving and the assisted power steering came back on sometime later. I'll borrow a battery charger and I'll leave it on charge over the weekend hopefully that will be the end of it. There is a chance that the battery could have been the main issue. My dashcam remained on a 3/4 months back and killed my battery, it might've not been able to fully recharge since then. Thanks for the advice.

The battery just stores power it’s the alternator that supplies it the chances are it’s the alternator is on the way out 

[sepulchrave]

This has been going on for TEN days, you assured us you'd checked the battery and alternator already.

 

What does 365 out of 550 even mean, are you off your meds?