As the title suggests, after starting up the engine, it cranked over a few times before starting, to which immediately there was a flashing glow plug warning, TCS warning, no power steering and a warning for that, EML and I think potentially an ABS warning. I scanned the ECU and got a P0727 code. I believe it was an Engine Speed Sensor fault, but I have googled this code which suggests it is a steering angle sensor. I cleared the code and everything works as usual. However a bit of background on this issue is that previously the engine used to turn over once and start immediately with no other issues. Recently, the engine has had to turn over a few times before it starts. Replaced the glowplugs which still didn't solve the issue. Prior to driving to work before all the faults occured, it was raining quite heavily and there is no under tray, not sure if this is a problem? Next on the list was to replace the fuel filter which could have been partially clogged. I've replaced the coolant expansion tank within the last 6 months as I was getting a coolant temperature fault when cold starting.

 

I'm not sure if there is damage to one of the looms where there may be a common connection to all of these issues? I've never had an issue like this before so I found it completely abnormal. I've tried looking at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual but nothing suggested to me that all these sytems shared the same wire loom which may have been contaminated etc. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as I'm a bit weary that when driving the power steering will just cut out an it would make it a bit dangerous to drive lol. Thanks!

 

 

TL;DR - Engine recently needing to crank over more than usual to start, suddenly got lots of dash warnings the other day upon starting: TCS, EML, Glowplug flashing, ABS, Power Steering.

You should rule out charging issues from the Alternator system and check the battery health.

Low Voltage will cause many systems to fail, leading to you chasing your tail.

 

Fairly recent threads on the forum for power related issues.

Absol-frelling-lutely the first things to check are the alternator and the battery.

1 hour ago, Frosty99 said:

I scanned the ECU and got a P0727 code. I believe it was an Engine Speed Sensor fault, but I have googled this code which suggests it is a steering angle sensor

Can you give an example of where this code was related to steering angle sensor.  A brief googling I did just kept saying engine speed/crank sensor.  That would make sense in the context of change in starting behaviour. 

 

For the charging system measure battery voltage before and after starting engine.  Check to see if the battery light comes on with ignition.

Report back with these two numbers and a yes/no please.

Thanks guys. I'll run through battery and charging checks. I do however know for a fact that the battery light does come on with ignition but upon engine start, turns off. I think I misread about the error code then.

I will screech this like a banshee till I'm blue in the face... CHECK YER EARTHS.

7 hours ago, Frosty99 said:

As the title suggests, after starting up the engine, it cranked over a few times before starting, to which immediately there was a flashing glow plug warning, TCS warning, no power steering and a warning for that, EML and I think potentially an ABS warning. I scanned the ECU and got a P0727 code. I believe it was an Engine Speed Sensor fault, but I have googled this code which suggests it is a steering angle sensor. I cleared the code and everything works as usual. However a bit of background on this issue is that previously the engine used to turn over once and start immediately with no other issues. Recently, the engine has had to turn over a few times before it starts. Replaced the glowplugs which still didn't solve the issue. Prior to driving to work before all the faults occured, it was raining quite heavily and there is no under tray, not sure if this is a problem? Next on the list was to replace the fuel filter which could have been partially clogged. I've replaced the coolant expansion tank within the last 6 months as I was getting a coolant temperature fault when cold starting.

 

I'm not sure if there is damage to one of the looms where there may be a common connection to all of these issues? I've never had an issue like this before so I found it completely abnormal. I've tried looking at the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual but nothing suggested to me that all these sytems shared the same wire loom which may have been contaminated etc. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as I'm a bit weary that when driving the power steering will just cut out an it would make it a bit dangerous to drive lol. Thanks!

 

 

OP- Not mentioned often is Glow plug flashing. Its a thing worth looking at. I'd suggest a check of rear brake lights. The brake light switch gas two sets of contacts. One is a make contact to bring on the brake lights, the other sends a signal back to ECU ( break contact). From my understanding either will trigger an ECU warning ( flashing Glowplug) . Simple way to diagnose is to check brake lights are on. if not ,remove trim panel over driver side pedals and remove brake light switch. One set of contacts will be open circuit with switch normal( NOT operated) with the other pair S/C. With switch operated, both switches reverse. If this is case, then switch is dud. If still no brake lights with switch in situ , then I fear you have broken/doggy wiring. or perhaps a bad ( perhaps water /damp connector).

8 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

For the charging system measure battery voltage before and after starting engine

I measured 12.6v before starting and 14.6v after starting.

5 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

I will screech this like a banshee till I'm blue in the face... CHECK YER EARTHS.

Bit embarassing, but I've never done this before so any pointers on what earth points I should check and where would be greatly appreciated. The Haynes manual doesn't give a great deal of information about what earths are where specifically.

 

As for the brake switch, I did recently watch a video on that, I'll take a check in the morning but as far as I know, they operate normally.

47 minutes ago, Frosty99 said:

it embarassing, but I've never done this before so any pointers on what earth points I should check and where would be greatly appreciated. The Haynes manual doesn't give a great deal of information about what earths are where specifically

I have sent you the location of them all.

Main earth to check is the one from the battery post to the body of the car, same for the positive post clamp, loose clamps will cause problems, (then you'd need to check your wiring diagram for other earths.   ETA: now sorted.).  A few times I've found the battery post clamps loose, often this is the problem so easily found and sorted (battery recharge might also be required). 

 

But first check your battery thoroughly the recent extreme hot weather will have done your battery no favours, 12.6v is fine but that needs checking a good while after the car has been running  and you really need to know what it drops to as the starter cranks over to see what real guts it has.

 

I'd suggest you charge the battery (disconnected if possible) anyway as you need the battery in a good state of charge and condition often to find and sort electrical issues and a lower or poor state of battery (and charging system) will hinder progress.  A long, low, slow charge is better than the quick chargers and not booster.  Just driving the car often is nowhere near enough to recharge a battery that's been depleted.

 

I charged up a neighbour's battery last week despite him telling me it was "good", I hear that often when they're not, I forget how many volts it showed but it was not low "as the battery had been on a charger to 90%".  We  jump started the car with the loan of some decent leads and use of my wife's Fabia Mk3 battery.  And right now I'm looking at another neighbour's battery that starts the car but might not later if I wasn't charging it up now (off the car, been 10 hours now on slow charge and no green light).

Edited 2 August, 20223 yr by nta16
ETA:

I'd be focussing on the crank sensor given those very healthy voltages. No harm in checking earths though, the one from starter motor to inner side of chassis leg is just as important as the main one from battery to chassis when it comes to cranking the engine. The starter end of it is quite exposed and subject to big temperature swings, so a good one to clean up. 

 

 For crank sensor, check wiring isn't damaged near its connector, and check for water ingress inside connector before spending on replacement.

You may need a tool you don't have, and access isn't totally straightforward, see here: '06 Fabia 1.9 vrs, crankshaft sensor fixing bolt. - Skoda Fabia Mk I - BRISKODA

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Frosty99 said:

Bit embarassing, but I've never done this before so any pointers on what earth points I should check and where would be greatly appreciated. The Haynes manual doesn't give a great deal of information about what earths are where specifically.

 

The one going from the battery to the front wing seemed the most problematic. Disconnect the battery then remove the earth at the wing end and clean it with an abrasive like a nail file or sandpaper.

@Frosty99 main earths like ones on engines and gearboxes (where applicable) are important and can be checked and made clean, secure and protected but that literally involves getting down and dirty so I'd start at the battery post clamps as that's a good place to start in my experience and the battery earth to wing seems another good and easy thing to check and if required clean, secure and protect.

 

The 12.6v reading may be very healthy or it might not be so healthy depending on a number of variables, your car and you done the test so you'll decide for yourself I'm sure but before rushing into sexy stuff do be sure to cover the simple, basic and unsexy stuff as usually you can progress successfully without doing so.  Checking wiring and connectors are basic checks but if it involves a tool you haven't got then I'd be checking other stuff I can get done first.

 

I'm not disagreeing with anything Breezy_Pete has put, other than perhaps the battery 12.6v, as he's very knowledgeable on such things but just checking the basics can often resolve issues and be free, or cheap, and easy, or at least relatively easy.   I'm just about to refit my neighbour's battery to their car, it shows 13.07v on my digital multimeter.

 

Good luck with getting things sorted.

 

Edited 2 August, 20223 yr by nta16

@nta16 Just a footnote to say be careful when considering a good/bad 12.x to 13.x Voltage as it can depend on the battery technology as to what is considered good/bad.

 

Basically no two batteries are alike (from a technological view)

 

https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/efb-or-agm-which-battery-do-i-need

 One of the 1st things I have always done when upgrading from the Classic - Elegance - Greenline is transfer the heavy gauge cable I made up with ring type connectors on the end that connect the earth lead connection on the inner wing to the starter motor mounting bolts, This may be why I have never had issues with very tired batteries that have always started the cars. Wonder how many battery salesmen we have on here.

 

If someone's talking about a resting voltage above 13V they are most likely dealing with an AGM battery, something that mk1 Fabias do not have.

 

1st chart is standard lead acid, 2nd as titled, AGM. Not sure if EFB is different again, but probably nearer AGM than conventional.

 

 

Temperature has a small effect too, one or two charts available might have multiple columns showing this.

Thanks for all the info guys! I'll be sure to take a look at the earth points when I get a chance, hopefully in a day or so and also check out the crank sensor. I would have thought if the sensor was bad it would throw an EML and not start or really have trouble doing so. Unless it's on the way out and hasn't totally died. I just thought it was totally weird how everything seemed to fail at once especially the power steering pump not being on but was after clearing the fault code.

2 hours ago, Frosty99 said:

I just thought it was totally weird how everything seemed to fail at once especially the power steering pump not being on but was after clearing the fault code.

Two points for my favourite subjects of battery charge and clearing codes.  🤣

 

6 hours ago, varooom said:

@nta16 Just a footnote to say be careful when considering a good/bad 12.x to 13.x Voltage as it can depend on the battery technology as to what is considered good/bad.

 

Basically no two batteries are alike (from a technological view)

 

https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/efb-or-agm-which-battery-do-i-need

Thank you varooom, you are reinforcing my point about taking, or not taking, figures at face value.  I don't want to got into circular discussions as can and has happened previously on here but there are variables to taking readings even if both vehicles are the same with the same make, model and type of battery.  One is that in my experience cheap digital multimeters can be a bit iffy especially if not used a lot (that'll push the lateral thinking) and around just out of one year warranty.

 

Just for info it was 13.04v on my not expensive present of Martindale MM39 digital multimeter, which I always think might be optimistic but I have nothing else to compare it against and I use it as a 'gauge' rather than 'accurate'.  The battery was a six years old Halfords dinky HB056, charger on my Carcoon charger, in the spare room, ambient temperature about 22c this morning, I didn't have my left foot in water but my left thigh might have been damp but that's old age for yer.

Figures are fun, some more - battery 2.1-2.15v per cell depending on which figures you favour or see written, and from my other neighbour's Ring Smart Charger, the figures I usually quote as I've got then to copy & paste, but snipped here for a change, well it's as good as a rest.

I

 

So managed to get a chance to check the earths, they check out okay. But still getting a longer start issue. I've replaced the cam sensor in accordance with the fault code as the old one wasn't measuring continuity across any of the pins. I checked the tank fuel pump which checked out fine resistance wise as I wasn't hearing the priming sound on a cold start, but I can occasionally. The next thing in my thought process would be fuel filter? I know that hasn't been changed in a long time, especially as I have only up to 60k service history and bought the car on 110k. Any other ideas would be very helpful guys. Another thing to note is the brake light switch functions normally.

36 minutes ago, Frosty99 said:

I've replaced the cam sensor

 

Fault code was for crank sensor, wasn't it?, is that what you changed?

 

See e.g. Engine not starting - Fuel issue - Skoda Fabia Mk I - BRISKODA

 

 

Edited 25 August, 20223 yr by Breezy_Pete

I believe so. But checking online for a crank sensor, they were all titled crank/cam sensor. I've looked for the location of the crank sensor and all pointed towards the cam sensor. I've tried googling and looking in the Haynes manual for a crankshaft sensor location but I can't find it, so that led me to believe it only had the camshaft sensor if that makes sense. Weird thing is that once the engine has been run and you start it again a few minutes later it starts instantly.

From memory crank sensor on the 1.9 diesels is low down on front face of engine block, right hand side as you look from front bumper into bay. Where was the thing you changed and what part number was it?

Tucked in somewhere behind oil filter housing/ oil cooler apparently.

Edited 25 August, 20223 yr by Breezy_Pete
more research

So reviving this thread a bit. I found the sensor, it is properly tucked away. I had a go at getting it out but it physically won't come out unless the oil cooler is removed as the heatsink completely blocks it from coming out. Now, my questions are how do I remove this? And do I definitely need to remove it? What I've found happening now is along with the struggling start, it will idle for a few moments and then die. Not sure if this is typical behaviour for a dying crank sensor? 

 

Any info on how to complete this task would be super helpful, I need to get it sorted asap.