Whats peoples take on remapping on the stock manual clutch revo appears to be against it apr do a low tprque map but ive seen west yorkshire tuning reccomended alot on vrs groups on facebook and they said its fine 🤔 so now i dont know what to do 🤣

Sure I've read on here, most people eventually replace it as it wears.

Remapping is one of those things where if you do it, expect to shorten the life of some of the components.

 

I had a MK5 Golf GTI (manual, standard clutch) which was Revo Stage 1 from about 30k. It got to 110k before the clutch started to go.

 

I know that the 8V Audi S3 which the MK3 VRS shares a lot of components with has a known clutch problem where they start going at really low miles, some as low as 30k. I can't remember if that was just the early 8Vs though. 

 

In my experience, if the car has been well looked after and not abused, there is no reason why a standard clutch can't take stage 1. 

 

I'm just getting the pennies together so i can map my VRS. I had a Avon map on my A3 which was really nice and not too aggressive. I found that Revo was really aggressive, fun though!

 

 

As one of the many with a remapped vehicle (Stage 2 via Shark (now Racingline OEM+) - and highly highly recommended), I have managed to retain my stock clutch without significant issue over the last 3 years and now at 50k miles.

 

As Crash says above, there's no reason a stock clutch can't take Stage 1 - just expect to apply some more mechanical sympathy to everyday driving.

Cars only just ticked over 17k so the clutch should be fairly strong ..and i dont expect to be doing rediculous launches from the lights and ripping the clutch, im 34 and its an estate 🤣 its more for overtaking and just having that exra power, think im just goin to go for it. Company seems well thaught of on the vrs owners groups on facebook so ill trust the public that its a solid choice, and that i dont need to waste a grand on a new clutch

Broadly, most of the mainstream remaps are the same. They massively improve the linearity of the torque curve and power delivery, and just generally tune it so much better than from OEM - I doubt you'll be disappointed.

 

So long as you're happy with the research & recommendations with your tuner of choice, should be good. The 'mainstream' remaps I'm referring to are vendors like APR, Revo, Racingline etc.

 

For transparency, the only time my stock clutch slips is basically trying to accelerate hard in an inappropriate gear (i.e., doing 50-60mph in 5th), rather than dropping down to 4th or whatever - depending on the situation of course. It's now become an edge-case as I've changed my driving behaviour to ensure I don't slip it too much or too often.

 

But as and when it does start to go more - maybe 70k+ miles, I'll be looking to get an uprated clutch fitted as part-and-parcel of any replacement.

An edge case meaning that you know its on the point of failing, or in truth has failed unless you nurse it?

 

If so I agree with you, if you think it is not worn out and capable of the torque and only slippin because of accelerating in an inappropriate gear then I disagree.

 

If a clutch does not slip when fully engaged (foot off pedal) in any gear then its only the future wear from slipping the clutch that would cause it to fail, drag starts, riding the clutch or fast upshifts mashing the throttle.

 

Its the latter that I believe does for clutches after a remap, its natural to try a few maximum acceleration runs and natural in that situation to snatch the upshifts and get back on the throttle instantly however the clutch peak torque limiter AKA bleed block true name clutchburneroutersystem will slip the clutch to protect the drivetrain just as you are mashing the throttle with the turbo spun up, you can slip the clutch at a standstill say trying to reverse a trailer uphill etc until it is smoking and it will recover but a couple of drag racing upshifts in the higher gears will kill it in no time at all.

 

On the rare occasions that I have to do a fast getway across a junction I have the traction with the 4x4 but have to feather the throttle to prevent clutch slip in 1st gear where but for the stupid peak torque limiter you should never ever get clutch slip because of the low gear ratio.

@J.R.I genuinely appreciate your clarification into "edge-case" (I looked it up the CED to check if I'd used it correctly 😅).

 

I thought I had used it correctly, in that I believed that clutch slippage was occurring (foot off pedal) when accelerating heavily in a less-than-optimal higher gear (and causes the Maxidot gear indicator to flip out showing '2-3-4' as if it's not sure what has been selected...). I've only ever experienced it on motorway conditions in higher gear pulls, than - say - fast getaways moving through the gears.

 

However, your reference to this caught my attention:

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

however the clutch peak torque limiter AKA bleed block true name clutchburneroutersystem will slip the clutch to protect the drivetrain just as you are mashing the throttle with the turbo spun up

 

I did not know this was a thing...!? 👍

 

So, effectively this is a peak torque limiter applied as part of OEM engine management protection? Could this be the more likely cause of the characteristics I've experienced, that I've incorrectly identified as 'clutch slip'?

 

If so, that puts a great weight off my mind (and wallet!)...

no, its a very crude device in the hydaulic line that allowe you to disengage (foot down) the clutch as fast as you like but it limits the speed at which it can be engaged (foot up) if you bring the pedal up quickly or sidestep the clutch they in their wisdom decide it should slip rather than load the drivetrain.

 

Even when my Yeti was only developing 108hp, less than that with the clagged up intake, a couple of times pulling away smartly I had clutch slip and wondered if I had imagined it, I expected that with a weedy engine and a 6 speed drivetrain rated for some huge torque I could dump the clutch like a Kevin with impunity but no, it would not have it.

 

When the car was remapped to an alleged 184hp on the few full on test runs I did I got clutch slip on the upchanges from 3rd to 4th & 4th to 5th (I didn't go any faster to need 6th) which would normally indicate that the clutch was on its way out but in fact it was the peak torque limiter, a slightly slower gearchange and no clutch slip, the clutch never slipped accelerating at peak torque in a gear with the clutch engaged (foot off) that is definitely a sign thats its game over, by doing what you are doing, changing down to avoid the slip you can eke it out for a long time but it needs changing and if not particularly worn then it needs uprating.

 

My pressure plate was dished giving contact only on the outer surface which had worn thin, not as a result of my 2 acceleration runs but I think it was a lease car with a young owner, I only refitted a standard clutch.

 

There is also Torque Limitation as part of the engine management software, I have seen parameters for it in VCDS but dont know what it does and when but imagine it restricts the boost and/or fuelling under certain conditions but the peak torque limiter i speak of is a very crude hydraulic device. I did drill the centre out and it stopped the clutch slip on fast getaways and fast upshifts but I decided to put it back to standard with a new one.

Not sure if this applies to the Octavia but early builds of the B7 RS4 were notorious for a slipping clutch on enthusiastic starts, the cure was to fit a larger diameter pipe to the slave cylinder as the original one wasn't allowing the fluid to return quickly enough to get full clutch clamping force quickly enough.

My single experience of clutches and remap was on a mk6 GTi. I bought it at 82k, stage 1 remap had been done at 70k, stock clutch lasted until 93k until the slave shat itself. Had the clutch changed for an OEM item as the clutch was worn enough, changed by the garage and also gutted the clutch Bleeder block by removing the little orange disc that restricted the oil, thinking this was a factor for the slave failure. All was well for the first 5k. After that I would get clutch slip when clutch was engaged and on the move (not pulling away) when I tried to accelerate in 3rd upwards. This wasn't me mashing the pedal either, it was feeding in the power. I'm no racing driver, I'm a professional driver and can't afford to drive like a tit most places so most was standard driving, overtakes and B road blasts.

 

The car was sold when I went to my Octavia fully stating to the buyer I thought it needed an uprated clutch pack to get the best out of the map.

 

I suspect in truth that the garage put a cheaper clutch in, however this has never been identified. Likewise, the map and dyno printout seemed strong so maybe it was an aggressive map. Lastly, I would imagine the gearbox is the same between the mk6 GTi and Octavia as the engine was a gen1 EA888. All clutches have torque limits, worth checking that torque is limited in the right circumstances to stop slip on the map (APR, Revo, etc will definitely have this in place)

I am thinking of getting a stage 1 map on my Mk7 Golf GTi which obviously has the same drivetrain as the VRS, and have had similar concerns with regard to the clutch. My car has done 40,000 miles and there are no hints of slip on the standard map.

 

I am led to believe that 4wd cars such as the Golf R and S3 are more prone to slip, because the grip from the tyres is no longer the weakest part between the engine and the road. Obviously that wouldn't be true on high gear roll on acceleration, but it would be a factor in lower gear acceleration from lower speeds.

 

I may just get it done, and if it slips either revert the car to standard and sell it, or buy an uprated clutch and fit it myself.

6 minutes ago, symonh2000 said:

I am led to believe that 4wd cars such as the Golf R and S3 are more prone to slip, because the grip from the tyres is no longer the weakest part between the engine and the road. Obviously that wouldn't be true on high gear roll on acceleration, but it would be a factor in lower gear acceleration from lower speeds.

I had an 8L S3 mapped to 285bhp and found the most efficient standing start technique was to just get it rolling and then floor the right pedal - less clutch slip and less intervention by the traction control.

Update ....i bit the bullet after everybodies advice and got it mapped turns out the 220 had 230 to begin with so that was good ...been advised to check the wheel balance and possible wheel bearing issue as he said at 100mph its super loud absolute obscene gains...did a few pulls on the way home n wow what a transformation the 60-80 time in fourth especially its sooo much faster now i would highly recommend west yorkshire tuning 👍👍👍

325 is decent!

Im super happy with it, ill probably do some simple supporting stuff in the coming months like uprated spark plugs coil packs etc

@Beaumont1988 What octane petrol were you running it on?

 

 

I only ever fill up with v power

Filling stations your way will be getting Winter Formulation Petrol delivered from this week.

 

You have enough available power for trucking about but you should try Tesco Momentum 99.

It can be 100 ron / 100+ as it comes in.    The Ethanol is lovely and detergents are not necessary.

 

As it is the Shell V-Power & the Momentum can come in as the same base fuel, but sometimes it comes in from Continental Europe mixed and is lovely stuff. 

Ive always stayed away from supermarket pumps like tesco and asda since ive had higher power "performance" engines, always tried to use v power or bp ultimate if i cant get to a shell garage 🤣 but might try the tesco momentum next refuel

 

Was also pleased that on the way home from mapping i was givin it the odd bootfull and still got 38mpg 

I like Tesco 99 as it's cheaper too, lol

I don't think there is a huge difference between winter and summer petrol.

 

 

Diesel is another matter as it has to contain anti waxing agents (often kerosene) to stop is solidifying in cold conditions. That makes your MPG worse.

 

I am not too fussy where I fill up, Usually it is Esso or Shell as they are nearby but if I am near one of the supermarkets and their fuel is cheaper I will fill up there. I can't say that I have noticed any difference between them.

 

On my standard car I was running standard E10, but tried a couple of Tanks of Esso momentum which is supposed to be E0 here. Logically you wpould expect a few more MPG due to the lower ethanol but again I couldn't tell any difference, nor in terms of power output.

 

Those are really good gains. Nice to see as i'm looking to stage 1 in the future, but will probably do the supporting parts first, exhaust, intake, turbo elbow etc.

 

nearly 100bhp on stage 1 is dead impressive. when i had my last car mapped i the 40bhp i got was a big change from stock, so can only imagine how alive the car must feel now!

I did hear a rumour that these engines produced more power as stock than originally claimed.

 

Many Gen 3 GTi's have been rolling roaded at around 260bhp stock. So the gain whilst still good isn't 100bhp

The difference between summer and winter petrol is the Winter is less hygroscopic.   But the important things is it meets the Min Octane which is always the case.    Eg  ron min E5,  97 or 99 min.   So the Ron is the Ron.   It can exceed min.   The difference is if Greensrgy and Shell have bought in from Europe as is.  So later in the winter 100 ron Continental super unleaded.     That even happens now,. Super unleaded in Scotland and north of England exceeding min Octane.  

Edited 17 October, 20223 yr by roottoot