EV car tax

[cheezemonkhai]

So car tax is to come in for EV:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321

[wyx087]

Question is, will it be retrospectively applied to all or the same as all previous VED, where only apply to new vehicles sold after that date?

 

[wyx087]

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2022/11/17/autumn-statement-company-car-tax-for-evs-to-increase-by-1#:~:text=Currently%2C BIK for a pure,5% in 2027%2F28

 

Everyone pays! 

Quote

"This will ensure that all motorists begin to pay a fairer tax contribution," he explained. 

 

New zero emission cars registered on or after April 1, 2025, will be liable to pay the lowest first year rate of VED (which applies to vehicles with CO2 emissions 1 to 50g/km) currently £10 a year.

 

From the second year of registration onwards, they will move to the standard rate, currently £165 a year. Zero emission cars first registered between April 1, 2017, and March 31, 2025, will also pay the standard rate.

 

The Expensive Car Supplement exemption for EVs is due to end in 2025. New zero emission cars registered on or after April 1, 2025 will therefore be liable for the expensive car supplement, says the Treasury. 

 

My Leaf will escape this, might be worth upgrading to a well looked after 2016 Leaf 30 for our local use. 

 

What other EV before 2017 is worth buying? Zoe, Leaf, anything else?  no Ioniq BEV 😞 

Edited 17 November, 2022 by wyx087

[cheezemonkhai]

Not clear yet imho 

[KenONeill]

@wyx087 Some of us said this would happen, if not in the next tax year from today, years ago.

[wyx087]

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

@wyx087 Some of us said this would happen, if not in the next tax year from today, years ago.

Of course it will happen eventually. But not on charging, not EV-only tax per-mile like many have said. 

 

But retrospectively for VED is a shock. Has VED ever been applied retrospectively?

 

I suppose it's their way of getting out of the "no tax before 2025" hole their predecessor dug, remembering they'll loose tax income from half of new car sales if it wasn't applied retrospectively. 

[lol-lol]

 

So if I keep my 2014 Clio 0.9 TCE, 109 gm/km,  on the road in 3 years time will I still be paying about £20 a year ie £140 less than my 2021 Zoe at zero emission  !!!!

 

[wyx087]

2 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

So if I keep my 2014 Clio 0.9 TCE, 109 gm/km,  on the road in 3 years time will I still be paying about £20 a year ie £140 less than my 2021 Zoe at zero emission  !!!!

 

Looks like it, yes. 

 

So 2016 zero or low emission cars are the ones to get, if you hate paying tax. 

[Ootohere]

Good.  A pity it can not be simple and the tax charged at the point of first registration and to cover a 12 year life of a vehicle.     Priced not by cars RRP,.  But by size, weight, efficiency or not. Recycled materials used in the manufacturing etc.     After that the VAT on electric covers things. 

[Ootohere]

Full disclosure / declaration of I am alright jack.      Charging for the 3rd time for free today.    Motability lease car.   VED exemption regardless of an EV or ICE.   Hundreds of thousands like me in the UK are also VED exempt.       Motability are purchasing many EV,s and ICE annually but many more are EV,s these days.      Maybe changes coming with all that in the future.  

Edited 17 November, 2022 by toot

[lol-lol]

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Looks like it, yes. 

 

So 2016 zero or low emission cars are the ones to get, if you hate paying tax. 

 

Just sold an early mark 3 Fabia that was nothing to insure as it was sub 100 gm/km but then it cost me £750 for a cam belt, water pump and thermostat change and with diesel at £1.90 a litre it did not feel cheap to run, 

 

[J.R.]

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Of course it will happen eventually. But not on charging, not EV-only tax per-mile like many have said. 

 

You sound very confident, why do you think that EV's owners will never pay an equivalent to road fuel duty as the government revenue from it tumbles as more people move to EV's?

 

And especially in the current economic climate?

 

Why do you think that only so called "Smart Chargers" are allowed to be sold since June 30th?

 

Any time one of those is used the national grid knows that those KW hours are not being used for heating, lighting of homes etc but for road transportation.

 

Make no mistake you will be paying, the only question is how long can they hold out fooling people into thinking that they will be saving money year on year by changing to an EV before bringing in the taxation.

Edited 17 November, 2022 by J.R.

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

You sound very confident, why do you think that EV's owners will never pay an equivalent to road fuel duty as the government revenue from it tumbles as more people move to EV's?

I never said never.

 

If it's on charging, it wouldn't be on home charging. Because it's impossible to mandate 100% chargers to be smart.

If it's on per-mile tax, fossil cars will get the same treatment on top of fuel duty.

 

EV will always be cheaper to run than fossil fuel, it's simply politically suicide to make fossil fuel cheaper to run.

[J.R.]

You still sound very confident!

[wyx087]

Confident because it's the way things are going. No electable government (well, may be except Truss the shortest UK PM) in their right mind will make EV vastly unattractive before the fossil car ban.

 

After the ban, it's fair game to jack up taxes due to deficit. But I don't believe home charging can be effectively taxed. They are "smart" for demand management, so people don't charge between 4-7pm when they get home. Per-mile is possible, but again, it will not be fuel specific.

 

At any rate, there's 2.5 more years of guaranteed tax free EV motoring, I'm really enjoying 2.5p/mile, zero road tax.  

[wyx087]

The full changes are as follow, in the PDF version: (bold for existing cars, not just EV's)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/autumn-statement-2022-documents

 

5.34

VED on Electric Vehicles (VED) - From April 2025, electric cars, vans and motorcycles will begin to pay VED in the same way as petrol and diesel vehicles. This will ensure that all road users begin to pay a fair tax contribution as the take up of electric vehicles continues to accelerate. The government will legislate for this measure in Autumn Finance Bill 2022. This means:

• new zero emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025 will be liable to pay the lowest first year rate of VED (which applies to vehicles with CO2 emissions 1 to 50g/km) currently £10 a year. From the second year of registration onwards, they will move to the standard rate, currently £165 a year

• zero emission cars first registered between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2025 will also pay the standard rate

• the Expensive Car Supplement exemption for electric vehicles is due to end in 2025. New zero emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025 will therefore be liable for the expensive car supplement. The Expensive Car Supplement currently applies to cars with a list price exceeding £40,000 for 5 years

• zero and low emission cars first registered between 1 March 2001 and 30 March 2017 currently in Band A will move to the Band B rate, currently £20 a year

• zero emission vans will move to the rate for petrol and diesel light goods vehicles, currently £290 a year for most vans

• zero emission motorcycles and tricycles will move to the rate for the smallest engine size, currently £22 a year

• rates for Alternative Fuel Vehicles and hybrids will also be equalised

[Ootohere]

Fossil fuel is cheaper to run than electric can be for those that need to public charge right now.

Great for those getting home charging cheap rates, or slow charging or workplace or best of all free. 

 

I almost went to pay 79 pence a kWh at a public charger because 2 charge hubs i tried were occupied by people charging to 100% because they were on free chargers.

 

But 20 kWh would have been £13.80 and i would just have got 60 miles on that in todays torrential rain and cold weather. 

So instead i waited about for 30 minutes then charged free for 60 minutes.  

[J.R.]

20 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

No electable government (well, may be except Truss the shortest UK PM) in their right mind will make EV vastly unattractive before the fossil car ban.

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

the only question is how long can they hold out fooling people into thinking that they will be saving money year on year by changing to an EV before bringing in the taxation.

 

We are pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

I believe they will tax home charging unless it becomes a per mile travelled charge levied on all vehicles as you suggest, my rationale is that road fuel tax brings in gazillions of revenue and aside from the windfall of fuel price rises it will fall away to virtually nothing if they achieve their aim of all new vehicles being EV's and that lost tax revenue will have to be made up somewhere.

 

The technology is there to seperate out any fast home EV charging plus there is also the monitoring and communications to/from the Smartmeters, equally there are ways around it at present but I expect more measures like the forced introduction of smart chargers.

[Ttaskmaster]

49 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

If it's on charging, it wouldn't be on home charging. Because it's impossible to mandate 100% chargers to be smart.

 

Says who?

For many years, we've had the legal powers to decide that entire catchment areas must be switched over to smart water meters, so long as it would increase water usage efficiency and decrease the strain on water-stressed region, thus helping the environment.

On that basis, the same could be passed into law for electricity usage... y'know, since we're all in an energy crisis, and all.

 

7 minutes ago, toot said:

I almost went to pay 79 pence a kWh at a public charger because 2 charge hubs i tried were occupied by people charging to 100% because they were on free chargers.

But 20 kWh would have been £13.80 and i would just have got 60 miles on that in todays torrential rain and cold weather. 

So instead i waited about for 30 minutes then charged free for 60 minutes.  

 

Given how much of their lives EV people seem to waste just for public chargers to become available, is there some kind of TV, free WiFi and a Costa coffee shop at every public charging point, yet?

 

[Ootohere]

Service stations and shopping centers have that kind of stuff, but many travel with their 'piece and drinks'

 

Toilets are more important where there is just 'charging hubs or single chargers'..

Solar powered auto toilets even if they are £2 a time to use, or you can get a seasons pass. 

 

People have internet on their phones, tablets, laptops, chromebooks etc.     Sadly there are charge hubs with crap phone receptions.

 

Many are not wasting time waiting, or once charging, they are working.

They are what we used to consider 'Commercial Travelers' / Reps.  So they do their calls and laptop stuff.

 

Then there is the social interactions and community good will. 

 Well not today with me and the ladies who like to get together and chat while their cars get charged for free because obviously going public charging at busy times a few miles from your home charger is your right and stuff others who just want to be going places having got in the energy required.

Edited 17 November, 2022 by toot

[wyx087]

8 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Says who?

For many years, we've had the legal powers to decide that entire catchment areas must be switched over to smart water meters, so long as it would increase water usage efficiency and decrease the strain on water-stressed region, thus helping the environment.

On that basis, the same could be passed into law for electricity usage... y'know, since we're all in an energy crisis, and all.

I'm getting Vehicle-2-home charger/inverter installed in next few months. How are smart meters going to understand if the high usage is car, home battery, or home-battery-car? How would it know how much miles had been done as a car and how much was used for home? There's also the "granny" charger I can use from a domestic socket. It's just as easy to install a commando socket with a dumb charger and charge at exact same rate as all home chargers.

 

For all existing chargers that had been installed, even after the non-smart ban, there is no standard. Podpoint uses Wifi (even their latest), old Chargemaster units charge £50 a year for their SIM plans to keep smart features. Most latest use Wifi or wired for smart features, how can taxation of EV "fuel duty" be enforced if vast majority of smart chargers' smart features can be easily disabled?

 

I'm not saying something like fossil fuel duty, aka usage based tax, would definitely not happen, It will eventually happen. I'm just saying you cannot just transpose fossil fuel duty to electricity.

[littleade]

It's not only the ved the chancellor is missing out on. The EV owners don't pay the massive amounts of tax the rest of us pay on fuel so it surely can't be long before that has to change too? 

[Ootohere]

Lots of that tax and duty has been and will be there paying for the climate change that has come about from those emission from the use of fossil fuels used for road transport.      But then there is as much burning of oil and gas and coal going on producing electricity now and long into the future.  

[landroverbodger]

its about time they taxed electric cars . tax has been used as a punishment for far too long all cars should be taxed at the same rate they all use the same roads. 

[Ootohere]

In the detail of the Autumn Budget Statement is an increase next year on Fuel duty for Petrol, diesel and LPG, so also the VAT.    PS.  It is not Road Tax they call it. It is VED.  Vehicles Excise Duty.     There was the ridiculous £0, £20 and £30 ,VED introduced on some smaller cars with supposed low emissions that actually are not.  There were part of the car kidology of testing / cheating.  Defeat devices etc. 

Edited 18 November, 2022 by toot