I'm planning a complete brake system maintenance according to the guidelines and advises over the net.

It's been told that, brake fluid renewal was needed in every year or 20K Km.

Also, they say; it was a good thing to replace o-rings inside the master cylinder and brake cylinders in 40K km or 2 years.

I've bought the car two years ago. The car made near 35K Km since bought.

Here is a list and status of the brake system parts:

- Brake fluid: I've replaced it after buying the car.

- The master cylinder had been replaced before. I don't know its age. It's an aftermarket one. (Pickup version - no limiters)

- Front calipers: I don't know the status of the pistons or gaskets. They are not leaking. Current operation is normal. The car does not pulling to either side when braking.

- Front rotors: Replaced 30K km ago.

- Front brake pads: Replaced 30K km ago with the new rotors. (I will measure their thickness) (Sometimes squeals)

- Rear drums, brake pads, all internal springs: Replaced 30K Km ago. (Rear bearings and stub axle have also been changed.)

- Rear brake cylinders: Replaced 30K Km ago.

- Front & rear flex hoses: I've already bought a set. I will replace all of them without regarding their condition.

 

Last MOT was 15K Km ago and the car have passed the brake tests with these results:

Front braking power:

176 daN - 182 daN   ---   %3 Difference

Rear braking power:

166 daN - 193 daN   ---   %14 Difference

 

There are no problems that I can feel during brake operation for now.

I'll replace the fluid and the flexible hoses. What else should I replace? Please advise.

17 hours ago, R_Blue said:

It's been told that, brake fluid renewal was needed in every year

 

The Racing and the DOT 5.1 brake fluids in a ''normal'' car must be replaced every 2 years, the DOT 4 can last 3 years.

''hygroscopic'' is the key word.

26 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

The Racing and the DOT 5.1 brake fluids in a ''normal'' car must be replaced every 2 years, the DOT 4 can last 3 years.

''hygroscopic'' is the key word.

It's been already 2 years since last renewal.

My main aim is to replace the rather old looking flexible hoses.

While doing that, I'll replace the fluid too.

 

Should I extend the work by dismantling front calipers and/or master cylinder for checking and replacing o-rings and gaskets? Or leave them be?

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Should I extend the work by dismantling front calipers and/or master cylinder for checking and replacing o-rings and gaskets? Or leave them be?

Absolutely leave them be.

 

If you are replacing the flexi-hose do make sure the new ones are of good quality if they are rubber.  For the same reason replacing rubber O-rings with new poor quality rubber O-rings would be a backwards step.

 

When replacing the brake fluid also flush a good amount of fresh new brake fluid through the whole system until it comes out thoroughly clean at all exit points.  Brake fluid is not expensive so buy extra for the flushing.

 

Once the system is empty you might want to clean the inside of the reservoir that way it is easier to see any discolouration at that point.

 

Clean the rear drums and shoes and adjusting the rear brakes as required, if the 14% difference is across the axle just clean, lubricate and adjustment could reduce any difference of one side to the other.

 

Tend to handbrake as required.

 

Distance is not a good gauge of brake wear as it depends so much on the brake use required or given by the driver, 10km of city driving might require a lot more braking than 100km of highway, if you are some where with lots of steep hills with lots of bends and slow traffic plus some driver's use the brakes more and harder than others.

 

Always remember the tyres are a big element of brakes (and steering and suspension).

 

5 hours ago, R_Blue said:

ld looking flexible hoses.

 

Should I extend the work...

Or leave them be?

 

If your local "Brake guy" can make you a custom set Braided Brake Hoses (PTFE inner with a stainless steel outerbraid) then in mountain routes you will not have a "sponge feel" after some tough brakings.

 

In Greece we have a wisdom, i can't translate it 100% in proper english but it goes like this:

"do not start a work, but if you decide to start it then make it good".

If you have the money and original or good quality after market parts then "Go for it".

Brakes are life-savers.

Other than the silicone brake fluid (DOT 5)  when to replace the fluid depends on a number of variations so car manufacturers will have different ideas of when the brake fluid should be changed, at a mileage or time interval, neither will necessarily be very accurate possibly very early or even should have been sooner but that's less likely given the car manufactures caution.

 

You can get various testers to tell you how much water is in the brake fluid at the place you test, such as the reservoir, and some will rely on just that and may not change the fluid for years others do not even bother to check and leave the fluid in for many years.

 

For your mountain roads personally I would put in a good quality brake fluid about every two years but check it every six months as part of a shorter 6-month service.

 

Having had so many ****-poor made modern parts for my "classics" over decades, including lots with rubber and the reason I no longer have my last "classic" I would advise keeping good quality older parts.  Not always of course if they are beyond good serviceable and functioning life or for new parts that (should be, but not always are) that will give improvement.

 

For the front calipers if they are working fine why risk putting modern O-rings and other parts on them, I would leave well alone.

 

The front brake squeal is something you can get even with fitting new pads and discs and despite fitting new ant-squeal shims or pads so if your brake discs and pads are still in good condition do not replace them.  Cleaning and lubricating the moving areas of the calipers and pads might even stop the occasional squealing you get now.

 

As put before tyres condition, wear and age can make a big difference to the braking (steering, suspension, road holding, ride comfort and noise) more so often than going for fashionable sexy types of brake discs (and perhaps unsuitable fashionable sexy types of pads though some might be good for mountain use).

 

@nta16 Thank you very much for another detailed reply.

 

22 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you are replacing the flexi-hose do make sure the new ones are of good quality if they are rubber.  For the same reason replacing rubber O-rings with new poor quality rubber O-rings would be a backwards step.

I have had the intention to replace them since @RicardoM pointed it out in one of his replies to my topic.

 

Also, someone had replaced them at least one of them before. The one on the right is different from the left.

Rear hoses could still be the originals.

 

22 hours ago, nta16 said:

Distance is not a good gauge of brake wear as it depends so much on the brake use required or given by the driver, 10km of city driving might require a lot more braking than 100km of highway, if you are some where with lots of steep hills with lots of bends and slow traffic plus some driver's use the brakes more and harder than others.

 

You are describing me and my conditions.

I'm residing on a hill. Also, I usually drive in heavy traffic.

 

20 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If your local "Brake guy" can make you a custom set Braided Brake Hoses (PTFE inner with a stainless steel outerbraid) then in mountain routes you will not have a "sponge feel" after some tough brakings.

I didn't know this. Thanks.

I already bought the hose set. Made from rubber.

 

20 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

In Greece we have a wisdom, i can't translate it 100% in proper english but it goes like this:

"do not start a work, but if you decide to start it then make it good".

If you have the money and original or good quality after market parts then "Go for it".

Brakes are life-savers.

Good advise.

There are no more original parts for our cars anymore. Choosing from aftermarket ones, requires some experience and luck.

 

15 hours ago, nta16 said:

Having had so many ****-poor made modern parts for my "classics" over decades, including lots with rubber and the reason I no longer have my last "classic" I would advise keeping good quality older parts.  Not always of course if they are beyond good serviceable and functioning life or for new parts that (should be, but not always are) that will give improvement.

Sound advise.

Some good parts sellers also warn me when buying parts about their quality issues.

Did you sell your MG Midget because of bad quality replacement parts?

 

15 hours ago, nta16 said:

As put before tyres condition, wear and age can make a big difference to the braking (steering, suspension, road holding, ride comfort and noise) more so often than going for fashionable sexy types of brake discs (and perhaps unsuitable fashionable sexy types of pads though some might be good for mountain use).

 

I have a set of (4) snow tires for winter season. So far, they fared good.

I have another set for summer to save my winter tires' life. Also, summer tires are more suitable for fuel economy.

Many parts in the front suspension section had been recently replaced by the previous owner by the time I purchased the car.

 

I will provide updates about the replacement work.

Rubber brake flexi-hoses should be good if made by a good and reputable company and bought from a good reliable source.  If you are unsure about the present ones fitted to the car, or they have cracks, then replacing them is a good idea.  Fitting Aeroquip type flexi-hoses is not necessary on a road car unless you do not trust the supply of rubber made ones and/or you want the hoses on the car for many years with less concern about them but you still need to check them.  I fitted them to my (road only, the photo was from a closed track charity day) MG Midget as soon as I got it because of the ****-poor rubbish rubber that was around at the time in other parts, they're still on the car 15 years later.

 

Check your discs and pads (shoes) for wear and if they will be too worn before the next intended service then replace them now.

 

One of the reason's I sold the Midget was because the wrong type of rubber O-rings were supplied to the manufacturer of the expensive sports clutch concentric slave cylinder so it failed within a couple of years which meant removing the engine to get it out - and hard though it is to believe unless you have my luck with cars the replacement O-rings were also wrong so the unit failed again 18 months later.  Up to the first failure 20,000 units had been sold in 20 years without issue then mine was the second they had heard of when I drove over to their offices and manufacturing site.

 

I hope you have been able to store the summer tyres correctly as they still age regardless of if they are actually used, stored correctly should be a problem though.

 

Good luck.

 

On 03/04/2023 at 17:24, R_Blue said:

Front braking power:

176 daN - 182 daN   ---   %3 Difference

dont touch it, numbers are excellent deviation is non existant, just change the flexi hoses

 

On 03/04/2023 at 17:24, R_Blue said:

Rear braking power:

166 daN - 193 daN   ---   %14 Difference

this is where you should look,
I advise fitting new brake hoses to the rear, and manually adjusting free play on each drum to be exactly matched,
maybe new cylinders, that will get you below 10% which is excellent for REAR drums

for brake fluid choose what you can afford DOT4 (not 5.1) brembo is a cheap and okey option ATE SL much better.

For BF i dont go based on years and kms I just measure the water concetration and change it when above 4%

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I didn't know this. Thanks.

I already bought the hose set. Made from rubber.

yes dont bother with braided one, waste of money

 

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Good advise.

There are no more original parts for our cars anymore. Choosing from aftermarket ones, requires some experience and luck.

i changed the front ones with a trw set, will see how long they last

5 hours ago, R_Blue said:

There are no more original parts for our cars anymore. Choosing from aftermarket ones, requires some experience and luck.

 

You can still find TRW-Brembo-ATE-Ferodo-FTE etc for us.

19 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I just measure the water concetration and change it when above 4%

Is that a typo at 4% as most show change at 3%.  Also just going on moisture percentage is only taking one thing into consideration same as only considering changing coolant based on a hydrometer.

 

@nta16 Some cars have character of their own. MG Midget is one of those cars.

From a mystical era, where a sports car could be affordable yet looking cool.

With my respects to your decision, it would make me sad to let a car like that go.

 

21 hours ago, nta16 said:

I hope you have been able to store the summer tyres correctly as they still age regardless of if they are actually used, stored correctly should be a problem though.

I keep the passive set inside home in large nylon bags after washing, drying, picking up stones and glass fragments.

 

 

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

With my respects to your decision, it would make me sad to let a car like that go.

The clutch went again just after I had bought a new hood and booked in with an upholster to fit it (not cheap), I had just serviced it and had the next year's engine oil too, I had also booked a rolling road session as I had decided to run it on E5 or E0 higher octane petrol and was preparing to keep the car for at least another couple of years and drive it more - such is life.

 

I expect you have seen the video my neighbour done of the Midget for his YT channel.

 

I spent several small fortunes on "classic" and newer and new British (English) cars and sportscars and contributed a load to tax and the economies of this country and bits around the world, I could have run a small fleet of old MX-5s on what I spent on the Midget alone, I think I had done more than my bit.

 

The Midgets were not even particularly good cars when new but it is the way they feel so tiny and light compared to later cars and the overweight monsters of today and you could have fun driving below the legal speed limits whereas today most cars are very boring below legal speed limits.  At least I had the opportunity of having such cars.

 

 

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

I keep the passive set inside home in large nylon bags after washing, drying, picking up stones and glass fragments.

You could also vacuum the air out of the bags and seal them if you want. - https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/b2c/tyre-knowledge/storing-tyres.html

   

@nta16

I understand.

 

I'm glad we have veterans like you in the forum.

11 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I'm glad we have veterans like you in the forum.

You mean old folk.  🤣

 

I don't know much about cars and mechanics but do have lots of experience of running them, if I can remember, and suffering from the (English) motor trade

 

I always used to put to other MG and "classic" owners that it was a lot less expensive for them to learn from my many, many, mistakes.  🙃

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

You mean old folk.  🤣

No, Sir.

Absolutely not. I mean experienced. (Honestly, I was thinking...Will I be cool like nta16 when I'm at his age??? Really)

I know people around claiming to had spent their entire lives owning and operating cars but when it comes to solving car related problems, suddenly they are green as grass.

So, I think, the ability to learn something is not related to age. I had a teacher in uni. told us the importance of learning to learn. She told us that, if we get used to learn new things, if we train ourselves to be open to learn new things, that would be an awesome trait with everlasting benefits. She told us that, life is about learning.

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

I always used to put to other MG and "classic" owners that it was a lot less expensive for them to learn from my many, many, mistakes.  🙃

I appreciate it. Many thanks.

----------------------------------------

 

 

So according to common advice, I'll leave master cylinder and caliper pistons, etc. for now.

 

The parts I've acquired for now:

 

I have further questions.

 

I'll open rear drums as per your advice.

I've rebuilded rear brakes 30K Km ago.

So this will be the first reopening after my renewal process.

 

I know I'm going to need new cotter pins.

Do I also need a new gasket for the rear drum?

Do I need a new center dust cap?

 

I know there is something weird happened here before me:

I think it's a good time to do something about it. I couldn't find a pedal set so, it's going to be DIY.

What do you think? Does it look reliable to you???

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Do I also need a new gasket for the rear drum?

Do I need a new center dust cap?

if the gasket was installed properly as per skoda instruction (1.5mm protruding) now you will need to drive it just a tad more deep,
dust cap, NO except if you damage it when removing

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

know there is something weird happened here before me:

I think it's a good time to do something about it. I couldn't find a pedal set so, it's going to be DIY.

What do you think? Does it look reliable to you???

this looks like the clutch, I dont see anything that stands out though

Edited 8 April, 20233 yr by Thefeliciahacker

btw ferodo is A GOOD CHOICE as for the hoses are you sure you have the short nose ones?

7 hours ago, R_Blue said:

No, Sir.

Absolutely not. I mean experienced. (Honestly, I was thinking...Will I be cool like nta16 when I'm at his age??? Really)

I was joking, British humour. I've never been cool at any age and certainly not now, though I am cold a lot more often now.

 

I know very little about cars and mechanicals but when young had to learn a little as the cars were very old and simple then and you had to do a little to keep them going.  I only returned to doing a bit on cars when I ran out of money and patience with poor quality professional work and realised I could do the job as badly myself without paying myself money.  What very little I did know I keep forgetting or mixing up.

 

One thing you learn when older is how very little you do actually know or previously thought you knew and that even very clever people have very limited knowledge.  Life is about learning, and relearning, facts change and the internet has sped up loosing and changing facts, all the time, AI will loose or change more facts faster.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

30k Km (18k-miles) seems too long to me to leave checking the rear brakes and cleaning them given your hill use, what is the factory service interval for the rear brakes, and I would check before that given hill use.  Depends on the shoes you use as to how much they shed, if the rear brakes are reasonably clean and lubricated after the 30k km hill use then fair enough, you will know better than.

 

I had to check/adjust the rear shoes on the Midget every 6 months (if adjustment was needed this would also improve pedal feel and take some slack off handbrake - but these were different drum set up to yours).  I would inspect clean and lubricate the shoes and mechanisms and drums every 12 months as I knew the age and use of the drums and shoes.  Shoes uprated in size to try to match the uprated front pads but it is more about friction material than size (similar to tyres). 

 

Edited 8 April, 20233 yr by nta16

On 08/04/2023 at 22:16, Thefeliciahacker said:

this looks like the clutch, I dont see anything that stands out though

The clutch cable guide pin is looking worn and thin. I think there must be a c-clip to secure the clutch cable but there is a cotter pin there.

(I don't know how it looks in its original form.)

 

On 08/04/2023 at 22:17, Thefeliciahacker said:

as for the hoses are you sure you have the short nose ones?

I've been told that there was only one type. So I don't know if there is another type...

 

On 08/04/2023 at 22:54, nta16 said:

30k Km (18k-miles) seems too long to me to leave checking the rear brakes and cleaning them given your hill use, what is the factory service interval for the rear brakes, and I would check before that given hill use.  Depends on the shoes you use as to how much they shed, if the rear brakes are reasonably clean and lubricated after the 30k km hill use then fair enough, you will know better than.

 

I had to check/adjust the rear shoes on the Midget every 6 months (if adjustment was needed this would also improve pedal feel and take some slack off handbrake - but these were different drum set up to yours).  I would inspect clean and lubricate the shoes and mechanisms and drums every 12 months as I knew the age and use of the drums and shoes.  Shoes uprated in size to try to match the uprated front pads but it is more about friction material than size (similar to tyres). 

I think the factory service interval is 20K Km for checking rear wheel bearings.

I checked them every time when replacing the tires and there was no abnormal play so far.

In our rear drum brakes, only the hand brake needs adjustment.

4 hours ago, R_Blue said:

The clutch cable guide pin is looking worn and thin. I think there must be a c-clip to secure the clutch cable but there is a cotter pin there.

(I don't know how it looks in its original form.)

I'll post a photo but you can also see it, on the hvac video last minute or so. 

 

4 hours ago, R_Blue said:

In our rear drum brakes, only the hand brake needs adjustment

Assuming the auto adjust functions properly 

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I'll post a photo but you can also see it, on the hvac video last minute or so.

You da man!

Many thanks. I saw it.

 

So I'm right about the guide pin. Something happened before with mine.

It won't be nice if it snaps in the middle of the traffic jam.

It's bodged, and I would like it to snap 

Is it OK to use universal silicone grease (-40,+200ºC) for rear brake lubrication points and for the front caliper guide pins?