2 minutes ago, dgc188 said:

Well, just as expected.......!

 

I emailed support@... ref the missing TMC data and received the following - and within 24 hours over a Bank Holiday (what a surprise!):

 

"We received your email, in which you requested information about TMC.

 

We're sorry to have kept you waiting. We kindly ask you to wait a little while, we have sent your enquiry to the information department in order to provide you with the most accurate and detailed instructions and answers to your questions.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

With kind regards,"

 

Like most others on here I've been having a drag around the 'net and can only find map updates (even later those on the official Skoda portal) and a number of minor firmware updates, but these pre-date this TMC change of provider issue. I have SW MU version 0359 and the best I could get would be 0369 - with a harder to install 0480. Would I be able to update to 0369 without the likelihood of errors for which I would need an add-on box to clear the code? Or maybe it's not worth the hassle for a few (minor) fixes.

 

The full SW Train is MST2_EU_SK_ZR_P0359T - Part number: 5Q0035874B - and Software version: H28.28.133_STD2Nav_EU.

 

BBC's Watchdog might be a further lever to get this sorted, given there are so many owners affected across so many marques. I did shake that stick at support in my email. I doubt it will make any difference to them but maybe getting the Beeb involved might. Matt Allwright and his team are quite good at getting things done.

 

I have contacted watchdog twice with no reply as yet.

1 hour ago, dgc188 said:

Well, just as expected.......!

 

I emailed support@... ref the missing TMC data and received the following - and within 24 hours over a Bank Holiday (what a surprise!):

 

"We received your email, in which you requested information about TMC.

 

We're sorry to have kept you waiting. We kindly ask you to wait a little while, we have sent your enquiry to the information department in order to provide you with the most accurate and detailed instructions and answers to your questions.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

With kind regards,"

 

Like most others on here I've been having a drag around the 'net and can only find map updates (even later those on the official Skoda portal) and a number of minor firmware updates, but these pre-date this TMC change of provider issue. I have SW MU version 0359 and the best I could get would be 0369 - with a harder to install 0480. Would I be able to update to 0369 without the likelihood of errors for which I would need an add-on box to clear the code? Or maybe it's not worth the hassle for a few (minor) fixes.

 

The full SW Train is MST2_EU_SK_ZR_P0359T - Part number: 5Q0035874B - and Software version: H28.28.133_STD2Nav_EU.

 

BBC's Watchdog might be a further lever to get this sorted, given there are so many owners affected across so many marques. I did shake that stick at support in my email. I doubt it will make any difference to them but maybe getting the Beeb involved might. Matt Allwright and his team are quite good at getting things done.

 

I wouldnt jump trains which is 3* to 4* probably end in tears. People mod the train up. Changing software gives you an SVM, the confirmation code in the 5F unit you put through 

 

https://mib-helper.com/im-so-xory/

 

Then puthing the return code into confirmation code least in Obdeleven Pro. Anyhow it won't help since it's not old firmware that's the issue.

 

If Trafficmaster have stopped transmitting on the frequency that VAG units pick it up from no firmware fix is going to sort it, can you see VAG paying to sort a problem with units up to 13 years old?

Thing is it’ll be affecting units that are much newer than this and will still be for sale on Skoda forecourts. Wonder where they stand if they don’t point it out to potential buyers?

22 minutes ago, Mattnam said:

Thing is it’ll be affecting units that are much newer than this and will still be for sale on Skoda forecourts. Wonder where they stand if they don’t point it out to potential buyers?

Same with Audi, VW, Honda and others.

 

Yes 2020 when they moved to mib3 so units from circa 3 years old affected not 13 years ago.

7 minutes ago, Tell said:

Yes 2020 when they moved to mib3 so units from circa 3 years old affected not 13 years ago.

 

Yep, to effectively deactivate functionality of a vehicle only three years old is completely unacceptable. My Karoq is not even five years old yet and I am disgusted this has been allowed to happen. I would be far less angry if Skoda had proactively addressed the problem, but they have done nothing. They have been shockingly bad at handling this situation, a textbook of how not to handle an emerging problem. You would think they would have learned from the past with dieselgate but apparently not. I will never buy another Skoda or VAG vehicle if this is not resolved satisfactorily. 

 

I urge anyone affected to apply pressure to Skoda directly. They have the responsibility to fix this. 

Edited 29 May, 20233 yr by joek666
Typo

1 hour ago, joek666 said:

 

Yep, to effectively deactivate functionality of a vehicle only three years old is completely unacceptable. My Karoq is not even five years old yet and I am disgusted this has been allowed to happen. I would be far less angry if Skoda had proactively addressed the problem, but they have done nothing. They have been shockingly bad at handling this situation, a textbook of how not to handle an emerging problem. You would think they would have learned from the past with dieselgate but apparently not. I will never buy another Skoda or VAG vehicle if this is not resolved satisfactorily. 

 

I urge anyone affected to apply pressure to Skoda directly. They have the responsibility to fix this. 

It would also help if more people contacted BBC Watchdog and similar. We need to get this in the news or nothing will be done about it. Lots of people will not even realise the function has gone until they run into traffic jams on longer journeys.

 

20 minutes ago, Hillbilly23 said:

It would also help if more people contacted BBC Watchdog and similar. We need to get this in the news or nothing will be done about it. Lots of people will not even realise the function has gone until they run into traffic jams on longer journeys.

 

Done that twice with BBC Watchdog with no response, messaged Skoda UK (facebook and email), my Skoda dealer in Crewe, Skoda support in Europe, various car magazines etc etc. Sent screen shots and info to Skoda europe at their request.   If you can take a car to France and it works then the TMC system can switch FM broadcasts presumably driven by GPS position and data in the maps.  If Skoda produced new maps that pointed at Inrix presumably they would  have to pay them for a licence.  My manual for the Amundsen says nothing about the service could be terminated just that if you have a diagonal line through TMC you are out of range of the service. 

11 hours ago, Mattnam said:

Thing is it’ll be affecting units that are much newer than this and will still be for sale on Skoda forecourts. Wonder where they stand if they don’t point it out to potential buyers?

I'd imagine the newer VAG units will be picking up the data from other sources.

18 minutes ago, Urrell said:

I'd imagine the newer VAG units will be picking up the data from other sources.

 

The cut off seems to be the switchover to MIB3. The latest units don't seem to pick up TMC data at all. I presume they rely entirely on a data connection and cost the owner money after a certain period of time. 

14 minutes ago, Urrell said:

I'd imagine the newer VAG units will be picking up the data from other sources.

If you pay for connected services it comes over the air but it's also in mib3 as broadcast TMC as well. They will be stuffed. 

 

The dealer training material for Audi mib3 is here.

MC-10189329-0001.pdf

6 minutes ago, joek666 said:

 

The cut off seems to be the switchover to MIB3. The latest units don't seem to pick up TMC data at all. I presume they rely entirely on a data connection and cost the owner money after a certain period of time. 

It's in the self training material for Audi for Mib3 atleast. Attached that above. You would have to sit in a Skoda with Mib3 and look for it as a cross check. 

From the Skoda MIB2 configuration files I’ve seen it appears units are configured to use TrafficMaster over FM and either the service from TrafficMaster or INRIX via internet.

 

https://github.com/catatonicChimp/mib2-tmc-ANZ

TmcProviders.xml

Quote

<tmc_provider name="Trafficmaster" id="2">

<encryption_method>light</encryption_method>

<cc>GB</cc>

<sid>7</sid>

<ltn_transmitted>7</ltn_transmitted>

<ltn_used>7</ltn_used>

</tmc_provider>

<tmc_provider name="Inrix" id="12">

<encryption_method>light</encryption_method>

<cc>GB</cc>

<sid>55</sid>

<ltn_transmitted>10</ltn_transmitted>

<ltn_used>10</ltn_used>

</tmc_provider>

TmcProviderSets.xml

Quote

<!-- PayTMC UK -->

<tmc_provider_set id="21" use_free_tmc="true"

use_online_traffic="false">

<provider_ref id="2" mode="non-exclusive" />

</tmc_provider_set>

<!-- ------------- Online Traffic Provider Sets --------------- -->

<!-- PayTMC UK -->

<!-- 32768 + 21 -->

<tmc_provider_set id="32789" use_free_tmc="true"

use_online_traffic="true">

<provider_ref id="2" mode="non-exclusive" />

<provider_ref id="12" mode="non-exclusive" />

</tmc_provider_set>

 

Assuming the online traffic uses the same, or compatible, tables with the RDS system (big assumption) and that the maps therefore already include the necessary tables for both systems, perhaps modifying TmcProviderSets.xml to change the provider_ref id for FM (the first section with tmc_provider_set id=“21”) from 2 (TrafficMaster) to 12 (INRIX) will restore TMC service over RDS?

7 minutes ago, Tell said:

It's in the self training material for Audi for Mib3 atleast. Attached that above. You would have to sit in a Skoda with Mib3 and look for it as a cross check. 

 

I tried in a brand new model on the forecourt and couldn't see any options relating to TMC. Could still be built in as a fallback perhaps?

6 minutes ago, joek666 said:

 

I tried in a brand new model on the forecourt and couldn't see any options relating to TMC. Could still be built in as a fallback perhaps?

I've asked the Seat Leon 4 folk. We'll see what they say. Get them looking for it in their units. Any mib3 is worth a looks. It squares a circle.

58 minutes ago, pcbbc said:

From the Skoda MIB2 configuration files I’ve seen it appears units are configured to use TrafficMaster over FM and either the service from TrafficMaster or INRIX via internet.

 

https://github.com/catatonicChimp/mib2-tmc-ANZ

TmcProviders.xml

TmcProviderSets.xml

Assuming the online traffic uses the same, or compatible, tables with the RDS system (big assumption) and that the maps therefore already include the necessary tables for both systems, perhaps modifying TmcProviderSets.xml to change the provider_ref id for FM (the first section with tmc_provider_set id=“21”) from 2 (TrafficMaster) to 12 (INRIX) will restore TMC service over RDS?

I was avoiding fiddling. The mib2 standard if it's in the map files can be hacked. Mib2 high they are signed so can't be edited.

 

Had a look at the link, Mr Bonk the the mib2 high collective. I do have a version of that toolkit on my Seat, how I got the Skoda life long navigation FeC on my Seat Mib2 high when VAG did the dirty on one release and left Seat off.

 

The tool sits in the green menu and you run it to give you retrofitter tools as if it was on a bench. They put all the retrofitters tools in it. Avoids signed updates. They found a way of side loading it into units due to a flaw in the Vag signature check so it slips into the units under the radar. 

 

I'll wait till after my holidays to fiddle with it. You really need an expert on a forum to help. I had one. The tool is paired with the firmware release you are on. It reads that. If it's in the database you get paired. If not they write one for you, hopefully. That's how it worked then. It latches onto the firmware. It uses developers hooks that were left in the firmware... so runs as test code. It might better pair now.

 

I did look at more recent copies of it and it seemed to pair differently. May be more generalised. Come across Audi OZ person on the MartiniB map release thread who had installed the Audi firmware. They have generalised their work now to produce firmware avoiding the signature... for the Australian they had it set up against the EU maps FeC. I got them onto the toolbox to alter the FeC to RoW... It was working then... They did need Mr Bonks help, I'd said press a button, needed some one else to say what to do, I gave them the FeC, 99% there, I said press AddFeCs they hadn't. That's when it became apparent it was more generalised in how it paired. You always reboot after using it so the changes get taken. Given you only use it once for a job... It gets hazy after.

 

We are still looking for a champion 😍.

 

Btw the other Audi folk that appear on MartiniB navigation files thread will have the mib collectives firmware on them (aka Mr Bonk). They do this for the life long navigation FeC. They then seek help to get the maps in on them normal stumbling blocks. The toolkit gets added and then may be deleted at the end. These are the "AIO" prefixed releases. All in one. Had people that say, no don't want the toolbox installed then don't get the FeCs they were installing it for.

 

There are toolbox versions for mib2 standard. If it was something that was useful on the TMC side it might have been added to the mib2 standard toolkit(s).

Edited 29 May, 20233 yr by Tell

49 minutes ago, Tell said:

1 hour ago, pcbbc said:

Expand  

I was avoiding fiddling. The mib2 standard if it's in the map files can be hacked. Mib2 high they are signed so can't be edited.

Actually there may be a way around that.

I've uploaded some modified navigation database files in the past.  If you change a file, but keep the file size exactly the same, it appears MIB2 high doesn't bother with re-checking the signing.  At least not on the file I modified.

Presumably re-checking the entire database for correct signatures on every boot would be prohibitively expensive.

 

Seems MIB2 high TMC config is perhaps in...

\Mib2\NavDB\mapStyles_eu\0\default\?\navigation_styles_??_EU.iso

There are separate ISOs in separate folders for Audi (1), VW (2), Skoda (3), Seat (4), Bentley (5) and Porsche (6).

Then look in file...

\tti\paytmc*.json

 

Quote

#  "MinorVersion" : "1.4.9",
#     Added "UK Itis" and "France Mediamobile"

 

        {
            "Name" : "trafficmaster",
            "Type" : "unencrypted",
            "SDKItem" :[
                {
# TMC_FEATURE_SUPPORTED_UNENCRYPTED_PAY_TMC_WORLDREGIONS
                    "Name"  : "WorldRegions",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736801,
                    "Value" : 1
                },
                {
# TMC_FEATURE_SUPPORTED_UNENCRYPTED_PAY_TMC_TABLENUMBERS
                    "Name"  : "TableNumbers",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736802,
                    "Value" : 7
                },
                {
# TMC_FEATURE_SUPPORTED_UNENCRYPTED_PAY_TMC_COUNTRYCODES
                    "Name"  : "CountryCodes",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736803,
                    "Value" : 12
                },
                {
# TMC_FEATURE_SUPPORTED_UNENCRYPTED_PAY_TMC_EXTENDEDCOUNTRYCODES
                    "Name"  : "unencrypted ExtendedCountryCodes",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736830,
                    "Value" : 225
                }
            ]
        },

 

#        Itis
        {
            "Name" : "itis",
            "Type" : "unencrypted",
            "SDKItem" :[
                {
                    "Name"  : "WorldRegions",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736801,
                    "Value" : 1
                },
                {
                    "Name"  : "TableNumbers",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736802,
                    "Value" : 10
                },
                {
                    "Name"  : "CountryCodes",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736803,
                    "Value" : 12
                },
        {
                    "Name"  : "unencrypted ExtendedCountryCodes",
                    "Nr"    : 1224736830,
                    "Value" : 225
        }
            ]
        },

 

        {
            "SetId" : 21,
            "Name"  : "PayTMC UK",
            "ProviderSet" : [
                {
                    "Name"  : "free",
                    "Value" : "yes"
                },
                {
                    "Name"  : "trafficmaster",
                    "Value" : "yes"
                }
            ]
        },

#                32768 + 21
        {
            "SetId" : 32789,
            "Name"  : "online traffic + PayTMC UK",
            "ProviderSet" : [
                {
                    "Name"  : "free",
                    "Value" : "yes"
                },
                {
                    "Name"  : "trafficmaster",
                    "Value" : "yes"
                },
                {
                    "Name"  : "onlinetraffic",
                    "Value" : "yes"
                }
            ]
        },

"itis" was what the service with location table 0xA was called befire being acquired by INRIX.

 

I probably need to go do some testing.

16 minutes ago, pcbbc said:

Actually there may be a way around that.

I've uploaded some modified navigation database files in the past.  If you change a file, but keep the file size exactly the same, it appears MIB2 high doesn't bother with re-checking the signing.  At least not on the file I modified.

Presumably re-checking the entire database for correct signatures on every boot would be prohibitively expensive.

 

Seems MIB2 high TMC config is perhaps in...

\Mib2\NavDB\mapStyles_eu\0\default\?\navigation_styles_??_EU.iso

There are separate ISOs in separate folders for Audi (1), VW (2), Skoda (3), Seat (4), Bentley (5) and Porsche (6).

Then look in file...

\tti\paytmc*.json

 

"itis" was what the service with location table 0xA was called befire being acquired by INRIX.

 

I probably need to go do some testing.

 

OK I've found that material await your testing. I can say I've never edited an ISO and put the material back inside.

 

We are also looking for champions (I am anyhow) to turn MIB3 maps into MIB2 high ones when they pull the plug on mib2 high maps in a few years time. Chillout said it would be cool. I was hoping that would be taken onboared.

 

Wait to see how it goes on your edit.

4 hours ago, pcbbc said:

From the Skoda MIB2 configuration files I’ve seen it appears units are configured to use TrafficMaster over FM and either the service from TrafficMaster or INRIX via internet.

 

https://github.com/catatonicChimp/mib2-tmc-ANZ

TmcProviders.xml

TmcProviderSets.xml

Assuming the online traffic uses the same, or compatible, tables with the RDS system (big assumption) and that the maps therefore already include the necessary tables for both systems, perhaps modifying TmcProviderSets.xml to change the provider_ref id for FM (the first section with tmc_provider_set id=“21”) from 2 (TrafficMaster) to 12 (INRIX) will restore TMC service over RDS?

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here, but...

 

Is it likely that the described change of the provider ref in "TmcProviderSets.xml": <provider_ref id="2" to ="12" will provide a fix on the MIB2 standard units to look at and decode INRIX? It seems too simple a fix - if it was to work. [the chat seemed to move onto the MIB2 high units].

 

Based upon this possible and simple change to the "TmcProviderSets.xml" file just by adding a single character.... it appears the file on the root [1910_MP213-1240.x_EU1.md5sum.txt] lists MD5 checksums for this (and every file).

 

How is this MD5 calculated? I've copied/pasted the (unchanged) file contents (opened in Notepad) into a suitable on-line calculator and get a different MD5 checksum to that indicated on the root file. Does the MD5 shown on the root include ALL the file contents or just the data (and not the comment lines)?

 

And would I need to change the name of the entire file from STD2_1910_EU1_202245.zip, or is there something coded into that filename as well?
 

49 minutes ago, dgc188 said:

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here, but...

 

Is it likely that the described change of the provider ref in "TmcProviderSets.xml": <provider_ref id="2" to ="12" will provide a fix on the MIB2 standard units to look at and decode INRIX? It seems too simple a fix - if it was to work. [the chat seemed to move onto the MIB2 high units].

 

Based upon this possible and simple change to the "TmcProviderSets.xml" file just by adding a single character.... it appears the file on the root [1910_MP213-1240.x_EU1.md5sum.txt] lists MD5 checksums for this (and every file).

 

How is this MD5 calculated? I've copied/pasted the (unchanged) file contents (opened in Notepad) into a suitable on-line calculator and get a different MD5 checksum to that indicated on the root file. Does the MD5 shown on the root include ALL the file contents or just the data (and not the comment lines)?

 

And would I need to change the name of the entire file from STD2_1910_EU1_202245.zip, or is there something coded into that filename as well?
 

I don't think the standard unit uses the route meta checksum, some times you see it on downloads other times you don't. It's more there for a human check than a machine check. PCBBC will tell me if I'm wrong.

 

It's the Mib2 high which is tight on fiddling. Why on the Mib2 standard people delete the language files to save space, swap the countries around get the unit working out of zone. Better test bed to experiment with than the Mib2 high on this.

 

I'll wait for clear instruction :). Too many cooks and so forth. Got one car with a high unit on it, the other with a standard unit. So can test if anyone gets it working. Between you two or more.

 

BTW when you compute the checksum you take out the checksum and signatures etc. I've used this in the past but I dont' think for the standard unit you don't need to bother with checksums. The POI files where it comes in more on those. That's where I've had to do it where VAG introduced new users IDs for the model so one was editing the POI input file from Poinspector prior to the programmer getting the new ID into their program. Was a Seat wifi standard unit issue now fixed.

 

The last time I had to get my head round it. SLA1 signature check on mib2 high stops map fiddling but we'll see what PCBBC achieves. The Mr Bonk method / mib2 collective as I call them will I guess edit the map file within the unit so circumvents the check. That's how the Aussie is doing it.

 

https://download.cnet.com/MD5-SHA-Checksum-Utility/3000-2092_4-10911445.html

Edited 29 May, 20233 yr by Tell

The MD5 checksums file in root isn't used.  It's only purpose is (I assume) for the java tool that downloads the update to verify its integrity.  The actual car doesn't use it at all.

 

I just opened the ISO file in a hex editor and looked for "PayTMC UK" and replaced the subsequent occurance of "trafficmaster" with "itis".

After some fiddling with metainfo2.txt I managed to get it to load onto my MIB2 High unit in my Audi TT.

 

Unfortunately still no traffic messages displaying. 😞

Either I didn't do something right, this isn't the config I need to change, or the maps don't contain the INRIX location tables.

Edited 29 May, 20233 yr by pcbbc

I did read it takes a time to build up. I don't know how that works but isn't suppose to work instantly. May be it will arrive. The mib2 standard people can nibble at that end.

 

You'd have to force a reboot on the standard one I guess. The high possibly does that if you used the back end menu. SWDL.

Edited 29 May, 20233 yr by Tell

3 minutes ago, Tell said:

I did read it takes a time to build up. I don't know how that works but isn't suppose to work instantly. May be it will arrive. The mib2 standard people can nibble at that end.

I waited quite a while. It only takes a couple of minutes tops to populate on other platforms.

The TMC messages are transmitted as a rolling carousel, sort of like old school teletext. So usually you have to wait for the whole database to be transmitted at least once before anything is displayed.

Like others, I contacted Skoda UK Customer Service, complaining that TMC info was disabled.  I asked when and how it would be restored.
Here's their reply:

 

Quote

Dear Mr Davies

Thank you for contacting Škoda UK regarding your infotainment system.

Please accept my apologies for the delay in my response.

I do appreciate you raising your concerns with us.

I am sorry to hear of the issues that you are experiencing with your sat nav. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you.

In regards to your query, I would recommend that you get in touch with our Digital Support Team. They will best advise on this and give recommendations necessary as they handle all digital and software related issues. You can contact them via phone on 00800 80 247 247. Alternatively, you can send them an email on *****@*****.tld. 

I hope you find this information useful. However, if any further help is needed, you may contact us using the details below.

Kindly be advised that you may receive a survey about the service that I have provided. I would be grateful if you have the time to complete this, as it will help me to provide the best experience possible.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding.

Kind regards
 
 

Thembeka Kaspile Customer Relations Advisor

T: 03330 037 504 E: *****@*****.tld   Škoda UK Yeomans Drive Blakelands Milton Keynes MK14 5AN www.skoda.co.uk www.skoda-auto.com

 

I'm about to write to the Digital Support Team...... 

Edited 30 May, 20233 yr by BionicJohn
Spelling