Hi, 

Sorry another suspension question!

 

I have a non-DCC Estate (2.0 TDI 190 4x4) with bilstein B6 shocks. 

 

When fully loaded eg with tow bar bike rack or full of camping gear the rear sags a bit. It's never caused any problems like grounding out or light steering but I'd like to sort it out. We're an active family of four often travelling with a decent amount of gear. The springs have 60k miles on them. 

 

My original plan was MAD helper springs, which I bought and are sitting in my garage but insurance company said no they wouldnt cover this modification. I could change insurers but that's a massive hassle. 

 

Alternative which is insurance friendly would be to use a spring with a higher weight range spec than the current springs. 

 

Mine is weight range 5 (I think 'N' springs from what I've read on here) - if I could work out what springs weight range 6 uses I could try those. My only concern is that this may make the ride too firm (compared to the progessive MAD springs) . I think cars with an oem towbar might have higher load springs. 

 

 

Does anyone have any experience or advice? Thanks 

 

As an aside I believe the mk3 superb Estate was originally planned to have self levelling suspension as standard - what a shame it didn't work out like that. 

 

 

Carlston will be along with the definitive spring and weight load details.

 

For myself I used Grayston helper springs on my first Skoda (the same as the Mad springs) and higher weight range springs on my last 2 Skodas, they are much preferable in my opinion and you also have several to choose from.

 

I have consistently carried very heavy loads and towed very large overloaded trailers with sometimes very significant noseweight and the rear of the vehicle heavily loaded, the suspension has been fine and the unladen driving experience better than before in my mind.

 

On the Octavia 2 the rear ride height was slightly higher than I expected, only to the height of a Scout 4x4 model but had I looked through all the data that Carlton gives I would have realised & would have fitted complementary front springs.

My best ever work and tow vehicles were 1990's Sierra Estates especially the 2.0 4x4 one, they all had self levelling rear dampers or it may have been a seperate strut, Boge strut rings a bell, and its a real shame that nobody seems to make them now.

 

Externally they didn't look any different but you could overload rear end with tools & materials until it was on the bump stops while static, drive it away and as soon as you hit any bumps it would jack itself up to the normal ride height & the overall spring rate increased.

There was/is an option on Superbs to have Nivomat self-levelling suspension. Have a read here (you'll need to use a translation service): https://www.skodaforum.nl/forum/i/ervaringen-met-nivomat.34050/

5 hours ago, J.R. said:

Carlston will be along with the definitive spring and weight load details.

any of the OE springs he offers are too soft for the Superb 😞

to add stiffness search for some from lowering kits,

but to avoid lowering chose some from some weightier car.

 

for FWD Superb as acceptable(-15mm) i found Eibach Pro springs from AWD Superb.

 

which will be good for AWD Superb i haven't found yet

who will try to share his experience?

 

 

by max load ->

10 hours ago, ZacDaMan72 said:

There was/is an option on Superbs to have Nivomat self-levelling suspension. Have a read here (you'll need to use a translation service): https://www.skodaforum.nl/forum/i/ervaringen-met-nivomat.34050/

Very interesting thanks, I wasn't aware of that and perhaps it may be possible to retrofit. There's also some good banter about managing kids in the car on long journeys on that Dutch thread. 

5 hours ago, Vidmor said:

Very interesting thanks, I wasn't aware of that and perhaps it may be possible to retrofit. There's also some good banter about managing kids in the car on long journeys on that Dutch thread. 

Would be good to know!

Very basic solution but I have used spring assisters that solved it short term.

How did you squeeze them into the childrens mouths?

Australia benefits from a Scout version of the Superb estate.  No idea if the rear springs would be a straight replacement fit, available to order over here & fit for purpose?

On 15/06/2023 at 22:28, Vidmor said:

Hi, 

Sorry another suspension question!

 

I have a non-DCC Estate (2.0 TDI 190 4x4) with bilstein B6 shocks. 

 

When fully loaded eg with tow bar bike rack or full of camping gear the rear sags a bit. It's never caused any problems like grounding out or light steering but I'd like to sort it out. We're an active family of four often travelling with a decent amount of gear. The springs have 60k miles on them. 

 

My original plan was MAD helper springs, which I bought and are sitting in my garage but insurance company said no they wouldnt cover this modification. I could change insurers but that's a massive hassle. 

 

Alternative which is insurance friendly would be to use a spring with a higher weight range spec than the current springs. 

 

Mine is weight range 5 (I think 'N' springs from what I've read on here) - if I could work out what springs weight range 6 uses I could try those. My only concern is that this may make the ride too firm (compared to the progessive MAD springs) . I think cars with an oem towbar might have higher load springs. 

 

 

Does anyone have any experience or advice? Thanks 

 

As an aside I believe the mk3 superb Estate was originally planned to have self levelling suspension as standard - what a shame it didn't work out like that. 

 

If you currently have 3Q0511115M rear springs, then going up just one weight range to 3Q0511115N should make a big difference.

 

Kilen 65127 rear springs (matching 3Q0511115N)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/12865401

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143320278000

 

KYB RA5338 rear springs (matching 3Q0511115N)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kyb/15818093https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kyb/15818093

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334803428476

 

Edited 16 June, 20232 yr by Carlston

10 hours ago, Carlston said:

If you currently have 3Q0511115M rear springs, then going up just one weight range to 3Q0511115N should make a big difference.

 

I agree and I strongly disagree with this:

 

On 16/06/2023 at 05:43, MartiniB said:

any of the OE springs he offers are too soft for the Superb 😞

to add stiffness search for some from lowering kits,

 

Thanks everyone. Looks like the options are try and retrofit nivomat which looks like a goer except £1000+ with shocks and springs (and I'd have to lose the current B6 rear dampers) or try the higher load index springs which will cost about £150 plus positive reports above, and thanks for the advice to consider the front springs as well. 

 

I'm not too keen on the spring assister blocks (though thanks for the suggestion) and I don't think the rough road springs are compatible with the bilstein dampers. 

 

 

Eibach Pro springs from Audi Q2 in thandem with Bilsten B6 are tested by several BS members -

That is perfect combination on the front axle of 2.0 Superb Mk3

3 hours ago, Vidmor said:

...or try the higher load index springs which will cost about £150 plus positive reports above, and thanks for the advice to consider the front springs as well. 

 

...and I don't think the rough road springs are compatible with the bilstein dampers. 

 

 

 

Higher load index 3Q0511115N rear springs are standard ride height, so would match the standard ride height front springs.

 

On 15/06/2023 at 23:00, J.R. said:

On the Octavia 2 the rear ride height was slightly higher than I expected, only to the height of a Scout 4x4 model but had I looked through all the data that Carlton gives I would have realised & would have fitted complementary front springs.

 

The reason that J.R. would have fitted complementary front springs (ie. increased ride height front springs) is because he fitted increased ride height rear springs to a car that had standard ride height front springs. If you fit standard ride height rear springs to a car that has standard ride height front springs, there is no need to change the front springs.

 

Edited 18 June, 20232 yr by Carlston

9 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

Higher load index 3Q0511115N rear springs are standard ride height, so would match the standard ride height front springs.

 

 

The reason that J.R. would have fitted complementary front springs (ie. increased ride height front springs) is because he fitted increased ride height rear springs to a car that had standard ride height front springs. If you fit standard ride height rear springs to a car that has standard ride height front springs, there is no need to change the front springs.

 

Thank you for explaining and for your very helpful and in depth advice 

Since I have an offer to buy Arteon Eibach Pro Kit and looking at the catalogue and table above I am curious what you think.

 

Superb 2.0 TSI AWD and Arteon 2.0 TSI AWD have same front springs in Pro Kit, but rear ones are different:

Superb
11-79-008-01-HA

122 mm outer diameter

13.75 mm thickness

327 mm height

8.2 coils

 

Arteon
11-15-007-04-HA

116 mm

13.50 mm

303 mm

8.0 coils

 

Strange that Arteon is lowering just 25mm with these springs, but still original ones are also shorter than the ones on Superb.

Seems like rear end of Superb will be quite low with these springs. 

Original ones are 
12.80 mm 

356 mm 

8.5 coils

 

Compared to Arteon Pro Kit thinner yes, but 53mm longer and with more coils to keep it high.

Superb is higher on rear end which can be solved maybe, but I am afraid Arteon springs will somehow be way off anything predicted for this car or its stability. 
Less coils, shorter springs, thinner spirngs than Superb Pro Kit, but maybe this less will drop it maybe 1cm more, or less.
Arteon Springs even if they are thinner, shorter and with less coils, they also have smaller diameter, I guess they also compress less...

 

Your thoughts?

1 hour ago, Bingodalton said:

Your thoughts?

scroll up to pictures i posted above -

Superb and Arteon use same springs,

for Superb has been offered different springs for FWD and AWD,

while for Arteon same springs for both *WD, what doesn't look ok

 

They just use same front springs.
For AWD versions rear ones are different.
Load is 1250kg (not 1220 as in your table), but they are shorter, thinner, less coils. 
Something is made differently with mounting of shocks and springs, chassis is a little bit different for Arteon/Passat and Superb or some bushings.

They maybe have thicker ones in OEM version, so they add some of height.  (checked this one, upper and lower support are the same)

On 17/06/2023 at 00:08, Carlston said:

 

If you currently have 3Q0511115M rear springs, then going up just one weight range to 3Q0511115N should make a big difference.

 

Kilen 65127 rear springs (matching 3Q0511115N)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kilen/12865401

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143320278000

 

KYB RA5338 rear springs (matching 3Q0511115N)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kyb/15818093https://www.autodoc.co.uk/kyb/15818093

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334803428476

 

Hi I fitted these rear springs and it has made a big difference when fully loaded so thanks for the help :) . Is anyone able to advise on the equivalent front spring for weight range 6 (rear spring 3Q0511115N) standard ride height as my plan is to get them all renewed and matching. Thanks! David 

What is the OEM part number of your current factory supplied front spring? It might be 5Q0411105GN, which is shown in the list below.

 

Which brand of aftermarket rear spring did you fit?

 

1	5Q0411105GF	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue orange	2	PR-L01
1	5Q0411105GG	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue red	2	PR-L02
1	5Q0411105GH	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue violet	2	PR-L03
1	5Q0411105GJ	Coil spring 2 paint marks	blue	2	PR-L04
1	5Q0411105GK	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue green	2	PR-L05
1	5Q0411105GL	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue brown	2	PR-L06
1	5Q0411105GM	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	blue Grey	2	PR-L07
1	5Q0411105GN	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	green white	2	PR-L08
1	5Q0411105GP	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	green yellow	2	PR-L09
1	5Q0411105GQ	Coil spring 1 paint mark 1 paint mark	green orange	2	PR-L10

 

Edited 20 December, 20232 yr by Carlston

Many thanks! I fitted Lesjofors. The current front springs are 5Q0411105GM so I'm guessing 5Q0411105GN would be the way to go. 

 

I think the spring I fitted were original equipment on the Passat 4motion and GTE. 

 

David 

 

 

Edited 20 December, 20232 yr by Vidmor

39 minutes ago, Vidmor said:

I fitted Lesjofors.

The current front springs are 5Q0411105GM so I'm guessing 5Q0411105GN would be the way to go. 

I think the spring I fitted were original equipment on the Passat 4motion and GTE.

 

Kilen/Lesjofors lists 3Q0511115N rear springs for the VW Passat B8 estate 4motion 190PS.

 

5Q0411105GN front springs do seem to be the way to go to match the uprated 3Q0511115N rear springs.

 

However, the VW Passat B8 estate 4motion 190PS uses slightly shorter (but the same stiffness) (perhaps about 10mm to 15mm shorter) 5Q0411105CH front springs, so that's another option.

 

I would go with the 5Q0411105GN front springs because 5Q0411105CH would reduce the front suspension travel and increase the risk of the front suspension bottoming out, plus I'm not keen on the look of a dropped front end.

 

Kilen 25123 and Lesjofors 4095137 are the same springs, made in the same factory in Sweden. Just sold under two different brand names. Kilen is more widely marketed in the UK. Lesjofors is more widely marketed in many European countries. Perhaps they think the name Kilen sounds better in English than Lesjofors. Just purchase whatever is available cheaper from a reputable supplier.

 

5Q0411105GN front springs (Kilen 25123, Lesjofors 4095137, etc.)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0411105gn?supplier[]=253&supplier[]=246

 

5Q0411105CH front springs

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0411105ch?supplier[]=246&supplier[]=253

 

Edited 20 December, 20232 yr by Carlston

Much appreciated thank you.