Help with vRS FL estate rear spring rates after retrofits please?

[Purpletom]

Hi,

 

I’ve got a 2017 FL vRS 245 Estate. I’ve owned it since April and it’s without doubt the best car I’ve ever owned - I’m dead happy with it.

 

It’s nicely optioned with almost of the stuff I was looking for including DCC. However it was missing a few bits so since owning it I’ve done the following:

 

- Retrofitted a variable boot floor with all the associated parts 

- Fitted a Westfalia removable neck towbar

- Sourced the correct 18” spacesaver spare wheel and toolkit in place of the compressor/tyre gel pack.

 

All of this has added a fair bit of weight to the rear end, leaving it sitting on its arse a bit, like this:

 

 

I’m currently over at the Nurburgring, did a lap last night and found this picture online of it:

 

 

To me it really highlights the ride height difference between front and rear. 
 

So I need to sort the rear springs. I live in Derbyshire, the roads are rubbish and I want it back at standard height at the back. I’ve had a look on the online parts catalogues (ilcats.ru) and there are 9 spring options for cars with DCC - the PR code on each option are associated with ‘weight range’ going from 2 to 10.

Logic would suggest I might need weight range 10, but I’m struggling to narrow it down to be honest.

 

I know it’s an obscure question, but can anyone assist me with this and offer any knowledge above what I’ve been able to find out already?

 

Thanks very much in advance 

Tom

 

 

[Ootohere]

Maybe some help in this thread, or from @Carlston

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/513739-octavias-punchin-

 

[NZ100]

In the for sale site, someone is selling some helper springs.  Don't know if they would help.

[Swirly182]

As per the linked thread - basically after some education from forum members, I bought some slightly longer and stiffer (I think) Eibach springs which went someway to levelling out the car when loaded up. Also some rubber assistors to fit only when towing the caravan.

 

To be honest, if I wasn't towing anything I would have left it. I quite liked the lowered look! 

[Carlston]

9 hours ago, Purpletom said:

Hi,

 

I’ve got a 2017 FL vRS 245 Estate. I’ve owned it since April and it’s without doubt the best car I’ve ever owned - I’m dead happy with it.

 

It’s nicely optioned with almost of the stuff I was looking for including DCC. However it was missing a few bits so since owning it I’ve done the following:

 

- Retrofitted a variable boot floor with all the associated parts 

- Fitted a Westfalia removable neck towbar

- Sourced the correct 18” spacesaver spare wheel and toolkit in place of the compressor/tyre gel pack.

 

All of this has added a fair bit of weight to the rear end, leaving it sitting on its arse a bit, like this:

 

 

I’m currently over at the Nurburgring, did a lap last night and found this picture online of it:

 

 

To me it really highlights the ride height difference between front and rear. 
 

So I need to sort the rear springs. I live in Derbyshire, the roads are rubbish and I want it back at standard height at the back. I’ve had a look on the online parts catalogues (ilcats.ru) and there are 9 spring options for cars with DCC - the PR code on each option are associated with ‘weight range’ going from 2 to 10.

Logic would suggest I might need weight range 10, but I’m struggling to narrow it down to be honest.

 

I know it’s an obscure question, but can anyone assist me with this and offer any knowledge above what I’ve been able to find out already?

 

Thanks very much in advance 

Tom

 

What is the OEM part number for your current rear springs?

 

If your current rear springs have started to sag, you might find that you just need to use new rear springs matching the original OEM part number, or because you've added a spare wheel and a towbar perhaps go up one in the hierarchy, ie. the next weight range spring.

 

If you've currently got 5Q0511115Q rear springs, perhaps 5Q0511115R would be about right.

 

Photo showing rear springs with OEM part number 5Q0511115Q

 

Kilen 63142 rear springs matching 5Q0511115Q

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123825662727

 

Kilen 63143 rear springs matching 5Q0511115R

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113808057980

 

Edited 17 July, 2023 by Carlston

[Crasher]

What is the VIN? If it has done a few miles the rear bump stops could be deteriorating.

[Purpletom]

Hi,

 

Thank you for the responses. 
 

@Swirly182- had a good read of your thread after being recommended it by @toot - very interesting. I don’t plan on towing a caravan with mine but it might occasionally pull a ton trailer. Thank you for the advice. 
 

@Carlston I’ve grabbed a picture of the spring:

 

 

So that’s 5Q0 511 115 R which refers to PR code:

 

0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only

 

Do you reckon that going up 1 would be enough? That would be 5Q0 511 115 S which is weight range 6.

 

I’m keen to get it back to a decent nose down rake and proper rear ride height. It looks horrendous on its arse at the back 🙈

 

@Crasher - the VIN is - TMBKU9NE1J0205253 - if you still need it?

 

Thanks again for the quick responses 👍🏻 

 

Tom

 

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, Purpletom said:

 

So that’s 5Q0 511 115 R which refers to PR code:

 

0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only

 

Do you reckon that going up 1 would be enough? That would be 5Q0 511 115 S which is weight range 6.

 

I’m keen to get it back to a decent nose down rake and proper rear ride height. It looks horrendous on its arse at the back

 

There's a good choice of aftermarket rear springs that match 5Q0511115Q and 5Q0511115R, but a very limited choice for 5Q0511115S.

 

Because you're already one weight range up on Swirly182's car (which doesn't have DCC) and the limited range of springs matching 5Q0511115S, I would stick to 5Q0511115R. Also, there was probably nothing wrong with the rear springs when your car was new. It's likely that they've just sagged over time. Kilen and KYB are probably better quality springs than the OE ones Skoda used, so they might be less prone to sagging.

 

I expect Skoda choose one weight range higher for your car because you have electronically adjustable suspension (DCC), whereas Swirly182's car doesn't. This means that for comfort you can put your shock absorbers in comfort mode, whereas Swirly182's car doesn't have DCC so can't adjust the suspension.

 

Fitting new rear 5Q0511115R rear springs should bring the rear ride height back to what it was when it was new.

 

As you can see below KYB RA7157 has an uncompressed length 10mm longer than KYB RA7156. Although they both have the same 11.25mm wire diameter, KYB RA7157 is a slightly stiffer spring than KYB RA7156 because it has a slightly smaller number of coil turns (which makes the spring stiffer when all other things are equal). I would estimate that KYB RA7157 is about 5% stiffer than KYB RA7156. 

 

KYB RA7156 rear spring (matches 5Q0511115Q)

Length 332mm

Wire diameter 11.25mm

Weight 1.7mm

 

KYB RA7157 rear spring (matches 5Q0511115R)

Length 342mm

Wire diameter 11.25mm

Weight 1.6kg

 

KYB RA7157 rear spring on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235063047933

 

If you're looking for bargain price rear springs, then I suspect the following aftermarket springs are rebranded KYB RA7157 springs. The reasons being that the specifications given by these other brands exactly match the specifications given by KYB, and they are using the same 7157 code as KYB uses. The Japko is particularly cheap on autodoc at about £15 each (plus shipping) on a 30% to 36% off day, usually Mondays (German time zone). Notice that Japko ZCJ7157A, Ashika ZCA7157A, and Japanparts ZC7157A are all using the same photo of the spring, with the same number of coil turns.

 

Japko ZCJ7157A, Ashika ZCA7157A, and Japanparts ZC7157A (I suspect these are rebranded KYB RA7157)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0511115r?search=OEN 5Q0511115R&supplier[0]=85&supplier[1]=10914&supplier[2]=10029&supplier[3]=193

 

Edited 17 July, 2023 by Carlston

[Purpletom]

@Carlston Thank you for that comprehensive reply - really useful.

 

I’ll be honest though I’m less fussed about cost and more interested in getting the right springs of a decent quality. 
 

Would you say the ‘R’ springs would still be sufficient given the additional weight I’ve added to the rear of the car with the towbar, spare wheel and variable boot floor? I know it’s not much relatively speaking but I bet there’s an extra 20kg there now. 
 

@Crasher - I meant to ask, do you have the ability to decode the VIN to find out what the PR codes for my car are? I was disappointed to find out there is no build sticker on the later mk3’s and no service book with a sticker in either. 
 

Thanks again,

Tom

[PetrolDave]

@PurpletomSlight side note, your signature says:

Quote

Daily - 2001 Octy 4x4 1.8T Estate

Spares - 2002 Octy 4x4 1.8T Hatch

Breaking - 2002 Octy L&K TDi 110 Estate

But here we're discussing a 2017 Octavia vRS that you've owned since April 2023. Might be an idea to update your signature?

[Purpletom]

Blimey, thanks, it’s been a while 😂 I’ll sort that now. I think it’s because I’m posting on my phone, the signature isn’t visible for me.

EDIT - Can’t do it on my phone. Sorry @PetrolDave- will have to wait until I’m back from Germany and can get on my laptop. 

 

Tom

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Purpletom

[Crasher]

Whilst you are in Germany I would suggest picking up the springs by Suplex, they are the best and awkward to source here since Brexit. 5Q0 511 115 R would be a Suplex 39545 but they don't list the S although Eibach OE do, their number R19953 and also Bilstein OE 36-301874

[Purpletom]

10 minutes ago, Crasher said:

Whilst you are in Germany I would suggest picking up the springs by Suplex, they are the best and awkward to source here since Brexit. 5Q0 511 115 R would be a Suplex 39545 but they don't list the S although Eibach OE do, their number R19953 and also Bilstein OE 36-301874

Thanks Crasher, funnily enough I have been researching part numbers and contemplating that this morning. There certainly isn’t a shortage of suppliers in this vicinity. 
 

Still haven’t decided on the R or S but truthfully think I’m leaning towards the S.
 

Cheers

Tom

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, Purpletom said:

Still haven’t decided on the R or S but truthfully think I’m leaning towards the S.

 

If you go for the S, maybe go for the Eibach R19953 because that is only sold to replace OEM part number 5Q0511115S and no other OEM part numbers. This means that Eibach R19953 should be an exact match to 5Q0511115S.

 

Bilstein 36-301874, Kilen 63144, and Lesjofors 4285745 are all sold to replace both 5Q0511115S and 5Q0511121AH, so may not be an exact match to 5Q0511115S. If they match 5Q0511121AH you may find that they are slightly longer and/or slightly stiffer than 5Q0511115S.

 

By using a 5Q0511121AH rear spring (if that's what these three springs are), you may find that your rear end no longer looks like it's lowered ride height, but standard ride height, ie. no longer matching the lowered ride height front end. 

 

Eibach R19953 rear spring (matches 5Q0511115S)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/eibach/18259209

 

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Carlston

[Purpletom]

@Carlston- thank you for the reply. I have ordered the ‘S’ equivalent Eibach. After searching for and talking to suppliers round here it seems they are struggling for stock as much as anyone else. That and I haven’t turned up in a 992.2 GT3RS wanting to spend 30,000EU on suspension so they’re not really interested in helping me 😕

 

I’ll update this thread once I’ve got them fitted 👍🏻

[Ootohere]

Maybe of interest to someone.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/515037-mad-helper-spring-bnib-fit-superb-iii-octavia-kodiaq-and-others

 

[Swirly182]

I called the supplier of MAD and they didn't offer any helper springs compatible with the vRS. The only option was the 'red' air bag insert system.

[Purpletom]

Quick update, I fitted the Eibach springs (S) tonight; this is the before:

 

 

This is the after:

 

 

There isn’t really much of a difference. 
 

More research shows the 5Q0 511 115 AA as being the highest load rating listed for my car. That P/N seems to coincide with Bilstein 36-301904 which I’m tempted to try next.

 

Thanks

Tom

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, Purpletom said:

Quick update, I fitted the Eibach springs (S) tonight; this is the before:

There isn’t really much of a difference. 

More research shows the 5Q0 511 115 AA as being the highest load rating listed for my car. That P/N seems to coincide with Bilstein 36-301904 which I’m tempted to try next.

 

Your rear ride height looks lower than Swirly's car fitted with the same Eibach R19953 rear springs matching OEM part number 5Q051115S.

 

Swirly182's car with 5Q0511115S rear springs

 

Autodoc lists three springs matching 5Q0511115AA. Bilstein 36-301904, Kilen 63145, Lesjofors 4285746. They are all probably the same spring, just sold under different brands. Unfortunately, none of them lists the specification such as length and wire diameter. However, in the Skoda parts catalogue they are shown as two weight ranges higher than 5Q0511115S. 

 

5Q0511115AA

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0511115aa?search=OEN 5Q0511115AA

 

Did the mechanic check the condition of the upper and lower underlays for the rear springs? If they are worn, that can cause a loss of rear ride height.

 

Upper underlay for rear spring 5Q0512149A

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/16203018

 

Lower underlay for rear spring 5Q0512297D

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/topran/16203019

 

Your front ride height looks too high. Has someone fitted standard ride height front springs? If so, you might be better off fitting standard ride height rear springs, rather than 5Q0511115AA rear springs. As 5Q0511115S rear springs hasn't raised the rear end much, 5Q0511115AA might not raise it much either. Although 5Q0511115AA will be about 10% stiffer than 5Q0511115S, the uncompressed length of 5Q0511115AA will be shorter than 5Q0511115S so that the unladen ride height of the car will be about the same. 

 

Edited 24 July, 2023 by Carlston

[Carlston]

Here's three standard ride height rear springs for the Octavia MK3 1.8TSI 4x4 estate (and other models). The 4x4 uses multilink rear suspension so these rear springs should also fit the VRS models as that also uses multilink rear suspension.

 

These should raise the rear end by about 25mm compared to the lowered ride height rear springs such as the 5Q0511115S.

 

Bear in mind that the 4x4 estate would normally use rear springs about two weight ranges higher than the front wheel drive estate, because of the extra rear weight caused by the four wheel drive system.

 

gknautomotive lists 5Q0511115H as being suitable for the 4x4 estate without a towbar, and the 5Q0511115J as being suitable for the 4x4 estate with a towbar. 5Q0511115G has an 11.75mm wire diameter so should have a similar stiffness to 5Q0511115S, ie. one weight range higher than your standard 5Q0511115R. So a 5Q0511115G should be suitable for a front wheel drive car with towbar.

 

Sachs 994999 matches 5Q0511115G

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/sachs/15244190

 

Sachs 992100 matches 5Q0511115H

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/sachs/15244135

 

Sachs 992101 matches 5Q0511115J

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/sachs/15244136

 

Edited 25 July, 2023 by Carlston

[Purpletom]

@Carlston - thank you for your comprehensive responses to this issue! I'm not ignoring you and I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and assist with this..

 

In answer to your questions - I changed the rear springs myself on my lift and the upper and lower underlays are both in good condition - no signs of deterioration or even any wear on them really. I'm unsure about the front springs but the rest of the car is standard so I can only assume they are. I agree it looks high at the front but I'm not sure that might partly be because it's down by the rear and that might be accentuating it. 

 

After much deliberation though I've decided to try a set of 5Q0 511 115 BH rear springs. Those correspond to PR 0YK (weight class 10) which is the highest weight class listed for my car (Kombi with DCC)

 

With that, I've found some Suplex springs that match the BH part number - with an overall length of 357mm and wire diameter of 12.25mm. That's 15mm longer than the current springs and .4mm thicker in the wire diameter. I'm hoping that'll mean it'll bring the rear end up by about 15mm (give or take) and result in it being slightly stiffer. My logic is that with the spare wheel, towbar and variable boot floor there isn't really much else that can be slung over the rear end from the factory so there's a reason they specify those springs. 

 

They should arrive in a few days and I'll update then 👍

 

Thanks

Tom

Edited 4 August, 2023 by Purpletom

[Purpletom]

Right, final update to this....and I've sorted it, eventually!

 

The Suplex rear springs I mentioned above arrived and I excitedly got them fitted. Bear in mind they were 15mm longer than the original springs with a slightly thicker coil (12.2mm as opposed to 11.8mm)...I hoped they'd get it sitting nicely. The result was this hilarity:

 

 

To be fair, that photo doesn't really do it justice! I could get my whole hand into the arch gap 😅

 

Sooo, back to the drawing board. I ended up taking another gamble on a set of Eibach R11339 rear springs. These correspond to weight range 8 (PR-0YH) and part number 5Q0 511 115 BF. Length 247mm, 12mm wire diameter. 

 

I took the opportunity to fit a Clubsport GTi rear ARB (22mm in place of the standard 20mm 245 rear ARB):

 

 

As well as making sure all four camber/toe bolts were moving freely:

 

 

New ARB drop links and bottom arm bolts and I got it down off the lift. Finally, the height I was after, ride unaffected and handling improved with the rear ARB:

 

 

So, to bookend this whole thing. Weight range 8 (PR-0YH) seems to be about right for a 245 vRS retrofitted with a variable boot floor, rear towbar and with a spare wheel in place of the original tyre gel kit.

 

Thanks to @Carlston for all of this advice throughout this thread. Got there in the end 👍

 

Tom

 

 

[Purpletom]

I said the last update was the final one, but just to follow on briefly. I towed for the first time with the Octavia the other day - only a light motorbike trailer but the nose weight was about 40kg. The car wasn’t down by its arse at all, even with a toolbox and a few other bits in the back.

 

 

Very pleased 👍🏻 

 

Tom