Improve handling 1.5 petrol manual Estate

[Alastair84]

Hello all. New to the forum and new to skoda. I've just upgraded my car that I had since 2017 which was a 2002 1.8 vauxhall astra Sri 16v petrol manual. To this, a 2021 octavia Estate 1.5 petrol manual. Let's just say these past few days since owning it has been mind blowing......the 6 gears...(i only had 5 before).... The resulting fuel economy, the infotainment system, having a turbo wow, and almost everything controlled and automated by the computer..... - and I thought my astras cruise control was clever - coming from a vauxhall nova with manual choke (but that's a different story). 

Anyhow I did notice handling and the feel of going round corners worse....the car is stock with 16 inch wheels.... Should I buy 17 inch or even 18 inch wheels to improve this? I haven't messed around with the ride settings yet I don't even know what mode it's in currently. I could literally feel everything on the steering wheel even going over a stone on the ground I could detect this on my astra.... But now with the skoda it feels as if I'm just using an arcade machine steering wheel..... 

Thanks in advance cheers

[Alastair84]

Oops please can move to octavia mk4 forums thanks

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

(I flagged for a mod to move this.)

 

Best try MODES, and see what you do have & how it reacts before thinking on spending cash money to change parts, Wheels / Tyres.

 

What pressure were the tyres set at when handed over and what did you reset them to for load carried.

What tyres / brand are on the car? 

Size, yes 16",  but what size, as in are they 205/60 R 16

,  & what is t he Speed & Load rating and are they marked XL?

 

How many miles has the car done, and do the tyres look like the originals or replacements?

 

Not sure that bigger rims and lower profile tyres are the answer to your issue. 

Others want to go with more sidewalls rather than less.

Briskoda is a place where you might get a swap of Wheels / Tyres.

Edited 30 August, 2023 by toot

[Carlston]

You could try changing the 205/60R16 to wider 225/55R16. That should help the car feel a lot more planted.

 

Your current 16" rims might be 6.5J wide, and it's best to use the slightly wider 7J rims for the 225/55R16 tyre size.

 

If this doesn't make enough difference and your car doesn't have DCC (electronic suspension control), then Bilstein B6 non-DCC shock absorbers (which are a quality mono-tube design) should complete the transformation.

 

Vredestein Quatrac 6 225/55R16 95V (Euro label C B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m139b0s8009p201104/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_225_55_R16_95V_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

 

7Jx16 ET46 5/112 57.1 alloy rims TWISTER (9.5kg) (4,399CZK is about £157.08)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-twister-16-octavia-iv/p/5E3071496A+8Z8

 

Edited 30 August, 2023 by Carlston

[AdMaths]

On 30/08/2023 at 00:14, Alastair84 said:

Hello all. New to the forum and new to skoda. I've just upgraded my car that I had since 2017 which was a 2002 1.8 vauxhall astra Sri 16v petrol manual. To this, a 2021 octavia Estate 1.5 petrol manual. Let's just say these past few days since owning it has been mind blowing......the 6 gears...(i only had 5 before).... The resulting fuel economy, the infotainment system, having a turbo wow, and almost everything controlled and automated by the computer..... - and I thought my astras cruise control was clever - coming from a vauxhall nova with manual choke (but that's a different story). 

Anyhow I did notice handling and the feel of going round corners worse....the car is stock with 16 inch wheels.... Should I buy 17 inch or even 18 inch wheels to improve this? I haven't messed around with the ride settings yet I don't even know what mode it's in currently. I could literally feel everything on the steering wheel even going over a stone on the ground I could detect this on my astra.... But now with the skoda it feels as if I'm just using an arcade machine steering wheel..... 

Thanks in advance cheers

I have the bog-standard 1.5TSi SE manual, so no adaptive suspension and only pleb-spec 16" rims.
Having owned the car for over a year I've worked out a plan of attack on the handling, and it starts with the springs. With the exception of a ****roen Picasso this is the most softly sprung car I have owned, and the roll in corners makes me wonder what Skoda were thinking of. I know it's not a VRS but jeez...
Anyway the search is on for suitable springs...any recommendations from other forum members?
 

[AdMaths]

As a "bump" I can add that my budget now extends to springs & dampers, so the ask is "has anyone put modified springs & dampers on their non-VRS Mk4?"

[fabdavrav]

As soon as you lower the car you have to tell the insurance company.....

 

As for dampers I would go for Koni "actives", basically the new name for the old "FSD" dampers....which I had on my Fabia...nice & soft for bumps, but firm up when the body presses down on the damper i.e. around corners & when braking...& I used these with the factory OEM springs as they are designed to do!

 

 

Another route is to fit the thickest front anti-roll bar that Skoda fit to the Octavia...It would be best to find out what you already have fitted...here is a screenshot of some OEM MK4 Octavia front ARBs

 

Edited 8 December, 2023 by fabdavrav

[AdMaths]

Thanks for your response I'll look into the Konis. The ARB would only partially solve the issue in terms of cornering, not the overall ride.

"As soon as you lower the car you have to tell the insurance company..." - Been modding cars since '87, well aware of the insurance aspects 👍

[Gerrycan]

On 30/08/2023 at 08:44, Alastair84 said:

I could literally feel everything on the steering wheel even going over a stone on the ground I could detect this on my astra.... But now with the skoda it feels as if I'm just using an arcade machine steering wheel..... 

Thanks in advance cheers

The changes you are proposing are not necessarily going to improve the steering 'feel'. 

I'm guessing that your previous car had hydraulic power steer assistance, hence the feedback through the wheel. The Octavia has electrical power assistance, which while it improves fuel economy (over hydraulic) and is very accurate, this form of assistance is noted as being quite remote in most lower priced mass produced applications.

Drive a good old direct unassisted steering sports car and even hydraulic assistance can feel numb by comparison.

[J.R.]

Spot on!

 

The OP might as well be using an arcade game steering wheel for all the feedback there is, the previous generation hydraulic ones were excellent considering the limitations.

[Gerrycan]

I can't comment on VW hydraulic steering but I found the electric steering on my mk2 Octavia with a heavy lump of 1.9pd iron under the bonnet  and 15 inch wheels was a better heavier feeling than my current mk3 with 17 inch wheels and the much lighter alloy 1.4tsi. Steering is very light, with little feedback and initially it took a conscious effort to avoid oversteering on long bends until I got used to it.

[fabdavrav]

If you are after more "steering feel"...get OBD11 or VCDS & you can "alter" the steering feel/response in the electronic steering module....

[Felix2021]

3 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

I found the electric steering on my mk2 Octavia with a heavy lump of 1.9pd iron under the bonnet  and 15 inch wheels was a better heavier feeling than my current mk3

As far as i know MK2 Octavia had electro-hydraulic power steering. It means that it was hydraulic, but pressure was done using electric pump, instead of mechanical pump run by the engine.

That gave more or less same feedback as regular hydraulic power steering, so no wonder it was better than electric one.

However VAG electric power steering is actually rather good (considering it's limitations) compared to some others on the market.

 

48 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

If you are after more "steering feel"...get OBD11 or VCDS & you can "alter" the steering feel/response in the electronic steering module....

There's one more thing to check. I am not sure how it is done in cars without driving modes, but in normal mode XDS (electronic differential lock) seems to be off or on very low setting. Changing to sport turns it on, and it can be felt in handling. I'm not saying about feedback here or force needed to turn the wheel. I'm saying about actual handling. Press gas pedal in the corner and you will feel how nicealy it tightens the corner.

So would be good to check what is XDS setting on cars without driving mode selection.

[fabdavrav]

28 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

 

 

There's one more thing to check. I am not sure how it is done in cars without driving modes, but in normal mode XDS (electronic differential lock) seems to be off or on very low setting. Changing to sport turns it on, and it can be felt in handling. I'm not saying about feedback here or force needed to turn the wheel. I'm saying about actual handling. Press gas pedal in the corner and you will feel how nicealy it tightens the corner.

So would be good to check what is XDS setting on cars without driving mode selection.

 

 

Here is a good explanation of how to alter the steering "feel" if you don't have the driving mode buttons, or if you want the setting to remain permanent..post no.4 here:-

 

GolfGTIforum.co.uk - An independent forum for Volkswagen Golf GTI enthusiasts.

[J.R.]

My MK2 Octavia had an electric power steering rack with the recirculating ball screw not an electro-hydraulic one, it was a 2006 PD engined one.

 

The Yeti has the same set up but better feel although I have probably by now forgotten what real steering feedback feels like.

[Felix2021]

14 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

Here is a good explanation of how to alter the steering "feel" if you don't have the driving mode buttons, or if you want the setting to remain permanent

Actually that will be a bit different in MK4 probably, same as in Golf 8.

Thing is, that in this generation they introduced "dynamics control" or something like that. This setting is basically altering XDS behavior, as well as some other systems if car has them (i.e. DCC). This directly impacts handling, not only steering "feel".

I will need to find some time and check available adaptations one day.

 

13 hours ago, J.R. said:

My MK2 Octavia had an electric power steering rack with the recirculating ball screw not an electro-hydraulic one, it was a 2006 PD engined one.

Sorry, that was my bad. Somehow i probably assumed it was electro-hydraulic, as this was used for a long time in smaller cars, like Ibiza or Fabia (until 2015 in Ibiza at least).

But you are right - O2 had electric power steering as i checked now.

[Gerrycan]

Apologising for being a bit pedantic and off-topic but after digging around the forum and online, I'm pretty sure my 2007 pd mk2 Octavia not only had the (already confirmed) electric power assistance but it was also rack and pinion (not recirculating balls) steering, as have pretty much all European non-commercial vehicles for the last few decades. 

The thought of driving a modern car with recirculating balls actually makes my eyes water  

 

On topic:

Got to remember the OP has a mk 4 1.5tsi and and he says it has different driving modes available so adopting the custom mode of 'sport' for steering weight would make it feel a bit heavier without having to resort to VCDS. My basic spec Aus mk3 does not have modes and I think a slightly heavier feel than it currently has would have been preferable for me. 

Another thing is that those contributors with either vRS or Golf GTi would have the better specified 'variable' steering system. I'm not sure if that was variable with speed or variable ratio depending on amount of steering wheel turn, or both, but I remember it being reported as being much better than the lower performance versions.

Another factor is that the OP's version would have torsion bar rear suspension unlike the independent rear of higher specs, not sure what effect it has on handling or ride as I am content with my original 10 yo torsion rear.

Edited 14 December, 2023 by Gerrycan

[J.R.]

8 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Apologising for being a bit pedantic and off-topic but after digging around the forum and online, I'm pretty sure my 2007 pd mk2 Octavia not only had the (already confirmed) electric power assistance but it was also rack and pinion (not recirculating balls) steering, as have pretty much all European non-commercial vehicles for the last few decades. 

The thought of driving a modern car with recirculating balls actually makes my eyes water  

 

No need to apologise, they are indeed a rack and pinion but with a recirculating ball screw around the rack shaft for the power assistance, there will probably be a Youtube video showing it.

 

I only found out by watching Ed China on Wheeler dealers working on one, I'm not sure he explained the operation but as soon as I saw it the penny dropped, since 2003 when I first saw electric power steering on our 24 hour Works Mini Coopers I had been pondering how they could work.

[Felix2021]

11 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

I remember it being reported as being much better than the lower performance versions

Well, i guess it's a matter of "taste". I had it in my previous car (Seat Ateca), and don't have it in L4. I cannot say, there there is no difference, but i also wouldn't call it a big difference either.

I had completely no problem with switch to O4 and never really missed that feature.

 

11 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

not sure what effect it has on handling or ride as I am content with my original 10 yo torsion rear

Independent is a little bit more comfortable and it handles better in some circumstances (i.e. driving through a corner on a road with bad surface - torsion beam might tend to oversteer, due to wheels losing contact with tarmac), but for me in 99% of normal road situations there is no real deifference.

[mccririck]

I don't think changing wheels and tyres are going to improve the innate handling characteristics.

[@Lee]

On 12/12/2023 at 16:26, fabdavrav said:

If you are after more "steering feel"...get OBD11 or VCDS & you can "alter" the steering feel/response in the electronic steering module....

 

That ☝️ 

I do it twice a year when I swap my summer wheels for my winters.

 

IDK if it's still a thing but when I had my Fabia the best bang for buck handling mod was a Jabbasport/ Whiteline RARB with a firmer and lower (30mm) suspension kit 

[@Lee]

2 hours ago, mccririck said:

I don't think changing wheels and tyres are going to improve the innate handling characteristics.

You'd be surprised what a difference they can make IMO

[Felix2021]

9 hours ago, mccririck said:

I don't think changing wheels and tyres are going to improve the innate handling characteristics.

It does make a big difference.

Was driving O4 on 17" and 18" wheels. There's very big difference especially in driving stability on high speed runs (on highway, 130-140km/h), but also at lower speeds there's a difference.

[Ootohere]

But just changing tyres for a different make on the same size wheels can make a difference.  As can a simple change of tyre pressure to suit the load carried.  Then increasing the steering assist or decreasing can, to suit tyres fitted.  Maybe skittery eco type ditch finders.