Still 13 years to save up for a new petrol/diesel

[Ttaskmaster]

Tunes will change, comes the Pocky-lips, when guzzeline becomes the thing men value the most.

Long after the lectrickery cars have gone, then He will come... out from of the ruins, out from the wreckage, out of the wasteland... driving the last of the V8 Interceptors... the Road Warrior.

Edited 21 September, 2023 by Ttaskmaster

[Ootohere]

I understand why JLR are happy enough with things in the UK going to be the same as in the EU since they lack EV models and batteries and need to getting building their factory and bringing in batteries from India from a partner.

 

The other manufacturers are going to have to be getting on having more models that will sell and be registered in the UK, 

maybe more affordable EV,s.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-66875554

 

[EnterName]

4 hours ago, toot said:

I understand why JLR are happy enough with things in the UK going to be the same as in the EU since they lack EV models and batteries and need to getting building their factory and bringing in batteries from India from a partner.

 

The other manufacturers are going to have to be getting on having more models that will sell and be registered in the UK, 

maybe more affordable EV,s.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-66875554

 

A positively Soviet approach from the fake conservative Tory party.

[Ootohere]

Part of the EU legislation and the UK is not going their own way on that.

 

Then there is the Rules of origin regulations on car components. That was pushed back from 2024 til 2027, still an issue for the UK & EU Manufacturers, 

more so the UK ones.

 

[Sad555]

Perhaps this delay will give EV COMPANIES time to focus on at least a 500 mile range minimum.

[SteveTheElder]

And let’s hope it gives time for the public charging infrastructure to be developed; and with some unification of billing/apps.

[Ootohere]

They can do 500 miles range now with big heavy cars with big batteries.

Time they have lighter EV,s that are more efficient and when they need a charge there are public chargers they can get on and not taken up by people wanting to have ones with a 500 mile range but they are not even going 100 miles. 

[SteveTheElder]

Maybe we need two groups of public charging stations - one for a fill-up and another for the EV equivalent of a ‘splash n dash’.

😉

[EnterName]

7 hours ago, SteveTheElder said:

Maybe we need two groups of public charging stations - one for a fill-up and another for the EV equivalent of a ‘splash n dash’.

😉

A "drive-through" charging station, perhaps? 😄

[SteveTheElder]

I think I prefer a swappable battery solution. Standardised fitting under the car, drive into a bay and the system swaps the battery for you.

Bit like the Camping Gaz methodology for paying; with perhaps an adjustment for battery deterioration over time so pay for useable capacity.

Three sizes of battery depending on car specification and or demand.

[Ootohere]

Just imagine, there has to be common batteries and fitments, maybe a selection of 5 types / capacities for cars from Zoe size to Porsche Taycan at Depots that you roll up to and have swapped.

Even if only 50% more batteries for swaps than EV,s on the road and some commercial concern has to build the facilities, pay for this then run making a profit and still buy electricity to charge these batteries.

'Sounds like this really really will be affordable for those that buy or lease these vehicles and then use this system.  Not.

This is the UK not a country where Councils & Government can even make up their mind on Onshore Wind, Solar Tariffs and that are taking 20% VAT when you public charge. Obvious business users can claim that back.

 

EV chargers can be out of order for days or weeks, and new chargers can take years to get switched on once actually ready to go.

 

........................

Kemi Badenoch MP in defence of them putting back the ban on ICE vehicles by 5 years did say EV,s were too expensive and EV charging had got more expensive.

Too right it has to be able to public charge and get a move on. 

Not such a concern for many Business users that the Government have saved them on taxation to be driving EV,s but it is for the public just needing to use them as a form of transport & not having cheap tariffs to home charge.

 

A Postcode lottery. 

Then a country or 4 countries divided, England, Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland.

..........................

69 pence a kWh.  = 10 kWh £6.90.   If you get 4 miles a kWh that is 40 miles.  If you just get 3.5 miles a kWh winter time then 35 miles for £6.90

The Dobbies / Pure Gym chargers might be 75 pence a kWh, so £7.50 for 10 kWh. 

***EDIT, 76 pence a kWh as they show today on Plug Share.***

 

If you go on a 7kW charger, maybe cheaper, 7 kW in 60 minutes, a 11 kW charger then 11 kWh in the 60 minutes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 September, 2023 by toot

[EnterName]

Given the government's apparent delight in mandating things, a single standard of charger ought to be simple to implement into law.

I don't care what standard they have, just let's have a standard and be done with it. It really can be done.

 

[Ootohere]

There are standard plugs just like that, for putting a charger into for very slow AC charging with a Type 2 plug which goes into the car.

(Not really chargers, the AC charger is in the car, it is just a lead.)

 

There are CCS & AC charger plugs on cars and the ones that need ChaAdeMO haviing been getting sold for over a decade so they still need chargers.

 

The real issue is people who know nothing about the many thousands of EV,s and PHEV,s already on the roads that need the Infrastructure for the next decades they will be getting used.

As to the newest and future models then the Manufacturers know what they are going to build & they are not just for the UK but other world regions.

 

Here is a motoring Journalist & a video to help explain.  They show a charger, the charger head on the right is a ChaAdeMO. 

 Not mentioned yet the Nissan Leafs and Nissan vans required this.

A tethered AC like in the middle might be 22 kW, but could be 43 kW AC and is Rapid Charging for a Zoe that has 43 kW AC charging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 September, 2023 by toot

[J.R.]

56 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Given the government's apparent delight in mandating things, a single standard of charger ought to be simple to implement into law.

I don't care what standard they have, just let's have a standard and be done with it. It really can be done.

 

 

That wont work in Europe 😄

 

Doesn't stop hundreds of Brits in my area still using them with adaptors though, the adaptors being a ticking time bomb as they cant handle anywhere near a 13 amp sustained load and the connections to the pins become unscrewed inside creating arcs then a fire.

 

Nearly all of the electrical items for sale on the facebook groups say "UK plug" 😒 but then I suppose anyone younger than me is unlikely to have ever gained the skill and experience to fit or change a plug.

[Stonekeeper]

[Ootohere]

Every city in the UK might need several of those. (Excluding the likes of Brechin sized Cities).

 

Then towns all around the UK at least one of that size or bigger. 

 

That is if it ever gets near 50% of cars and light commercials on UK roads being EV,s.

[SteveTheElder]

On the topic of swappable batteries, global standardisation can’t be too difficult ‘cos the industry has the likes of AA, AAA, CR2032 etc. cars would simply need bigger ones!

Big cars, vans etc could use modules that stack and used in series or parallel depending on voltage requirements.

As I reckon it would make life easier for the motorist it will never happen 🙄

 

I’d also like to see Park & Ride type facilities for city workers where each bay has a charge point. Needn’t be expensive fast types ‘cos the car will be there all day. And for the shoppers or visitors on half day trips they’d get a top up too.

[Ootohere]

England might get all that eventually.   No use to those with cars now obviously.

The swappable batteries are simply clever, but that is as far as it goes really,

because that requires other manufacturers who want to be doing as the company that does them now does.

 

There are newer lighter batteries coming eventually.

 

Like eventually the National Grid can provide energy to the locations where these park and rides are going and there can be wind turbines and solar panels plus battery storage.

England really does need to manage resources better and import more local energy like from Scotland and pay for that as well as it pays to bring it in under the sea from Continental Europe.

 

Scotland has Park & Rides with dozens of chargers & bus offices seldom open and also no toilets or only open when the ticket offices are,

They have Solar, battery storage and locally so much renewables from Wind Farms & Hydro and excess that the National Grid does not want.

 

$10 and the price of electricity, fantastic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 September, 2023 by toot

[SteveTheElder]

I could so easily lower the tone of this thread by bringing politics in to it - but suffice to say, England could do far better (as you suggest) given combined willpower and some focus.

[Warrior193]

1 hour ago, SteveTheElder said:

On the topic of swappable batteries, global standardisation can’t be too difficult ‘cos the industry has the likes of AA, AAA, CR2032 etc. cars would simply need bigger ones!

Big cars, vans etc could use modules that stack and used in series or parallel depending on voltage requirements.

As I reckon it would make life easier for the motorist it will never happen 🙄

 

I’d also like to see Park & Ride type facilities for city workers where each bay has a charge point. Needn’t be expensive fast types ‘cos the car will be there all day. And for the shoppers or visitors on half day trips they’d get a top up too.

I can see a potential problem with (possibly robotic?) repeated connection and disconnection of such high powered power source connectors. 

[Ootohere]

The being able to run with a lighter smaller capacity battery then change for a heavier long range is brilliant.

 

@SteveTheElderThe reason London and Scotland is so far ahead with chargers is because UK tax payers contributed so much as did the EU.

The Rof UK have been very generous to Scotland in getting the infrastructure in place that there is.

Sadly many of the 60 million quid plus has gone the way of many projects, to those and such as those.

 

There are some of the 32 local authorities that have just no idea and there are others that filled their boots from the publics money from Scotland and the UK and from the EU.

[AGFalco]

On 20/09/2023 at 18:48, Sad555 said:

I’m wondering if this could lead to a reduction in prices of ICE car 🚘 in the future

My thoughts:-

 

Small new cars are being phased out.

How many sub 4 metre long cars are for sale new now?

Citigo gone, Mii gone, UP is still available BUT from stock only.

 

Cars are getting bigger ( SUV's ) with more technology in them and consequently prices will only rise.

 

Electric cars might well come down in price. 

 

I think they want to get to a point where the average ICE car is the same price as an Electric car to encourage their purchase.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[Stonekeeper]

17 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

My thoughts:-

 

Small new cars are being phased out.

How many sub 4 metre long cars are for sale new now?

Citigo gone, Mii gone, UP is still available BUT from stock only.

 

Cars are getting bigger ( SUV's ) with more technology in them and consequently prices will only rise.

 

Electric cars might well come down in price. 

 

I think they want to get to a point where the average ICE car is the same price as an Electric car to encourage their purchase.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

 

I thought the Hybrid Octavia was now cheaper than the 2.0 litre diesel option?

 

 

Figures from Skoda car configurator

 

 

Or am I doing something wrong?

[Ootohere]

But then it is a PHEV with all the kidology of that.

30 miles maybe from the 13 kWh in the battery or 11 kWh that some are moaning about & not that great economy.

So if you can charge the battery on an off peak tariff fine, otherwise 30 pence a kWh will be £3.30 or so for that 30 miles.

[Stonekeeper]

4 minutes ago, toot said:

But then it is a PHEV with all the kidology of that.

30 miles maybe from the 13 kWh in the battery or 11 kWh that some are moaning about & not that great economy.

So if you can charge the battery on an off peak tariff fine, otherwise 30 pence a kWh will be £3.30 or so for that 30 miles.

 

 

That's the conundrum i have at the moment, because i need to be able to tow a 1414kg Caravan 256 miles to Devon with a car with a big boot.

 

Do i stick with my euro5 diesel and watch the places i can go shrink as Ulez charges start applying.

 

Do I go Hybrid and risk having to pay £10 a week VED because anything decent is over £40,000 new.

 

Or buy a Euro 6 diesel and have poorer economy because i have to factor in the Pig urea. (thought that implementation was quite Ironic: literally taking the ....)

 

 Electric at standard tariff or even worse buying on the road is not much cheaper than £7.20 for up to 60mpg solo and 35mpg towing (i don't think the 11kw would get 30 miles towing?)

 

 

(I believe you can get 8p a KW for car charging at home overnight from some suppliers but have not investigated what they charge for daytime as a consequence for the rest of the house.)

 

Not to mention that the quoted CO2 is more for the Hybid than the diesel as regards to saving the planet.

 

I was almost convinced the Skoda IV was the answer because i think i could for most of the year be electric only with it.

 

Then i saw the towing weight is 300kg lower than the diesel.

 

I try to tow with as close to 85% ratio but that lower limit pushes it to 97%.

 

Am i over thinking this?