33 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Are there less EV,s on fire, or just less reporting of these in the UK?

Less major events as far as closure of roads and car parks etc

Are people maybe being more careful over their charging and chargers?

Headline 'ELECTRIC CARS'. but story is Electric Vehicles.

So when is it actually just BEV cars / vans and when does statistics also include, e-Bikes, e-Scooters catching fire?

Well to be honest, surely unless we are all just burying our heads in the sand, we must have expected a hike in such events as more and more electric vehicles of all kinds come onto the British roads and also of course as batteries themselves begin to age more and the effects of aging and or any manufacturing defects begin to show themselves.

There will become a time when unless we reverse the current push towards electrification, that electric electric vehicles are more common then ICE ones and any problems with them will become more evident and difficult to conceal (if that is what is going on, it certainly seems to be the case in China as footage is appearing of many more electric fires and of firefighters actively hacking off the badges that would give away the brand and type of car involved). Are we still in the Betamax v VHS, or the CFL v LED phase?

This a video of a lorry on the M25 in Essex on 13th Aug this year, it was carrying tyres, and it closed the road for the entire day and night as they had to resurface the road before opening it up again.

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by Graham Butcher

38 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

There will become a time when unless we reverse the current push towards electrification, that electric electric vehicles are more common then ICE ones and any problems with them will become more evident and difficult to conceal (if that is what is going on, it certainly seems to be the case in China as footage is appearing of many more electric fires and of firefighters actively hacking off the badges that would give away the brand and type of car involved). Are we still in the Betamax v VHS, or the CFL v LED phase?

We have strive for sustainable future. That means to stop burning stuff, which requires moving away from ICE vehicle ASAP. BEV is currently the best option. There are no better alternative.

May I refer you to this thread for discussion on whether it is right for government to push for net zero.

Yet another shipping company places bans of BEV and PHEV vehicles on their ships and ferries.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yet another shipping company places bans of BEV and PHEV vehicles on their ships and ferries.

My employer moves more finished cars than any other i gather and we gave been launching very big car carriers. 7,000 car carrying capacity, LNG fuel usage to be greener.

Latest fire fighting systems.

BYD getting big in the car carrier business with similar sized carriers.

Car carriers I have read about seem to be the older and smaller carriers.

Don't think there will be any problem bringing the every growing amount of full EVs and hybrids with ever bigger batteries, lithium ion or LFP. We have extensive lithium battery handling process both for storage and if any runway does occur both at sea and in the just in time supply chain for the production lines here in the UK and numerous other countries.

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by lol-lol

39 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

My employer moves more finished cars than any other i gather and we gave been launching very big car carriers. 7,000 car carrying capacity, LNG fuel usage to be greener.

Latest fire fighting systems.

BYD getting big in the car carrier business with similar sized carriers.

Car carriers I have read about seem to be the older and smaller carriers.

Don't think there will be any problem bringing the every growing amount of full EVs and hybrids with ever bigger batteries, lithium ion or LFP. We have extensive lithium battery handling process both for storage and if any runway does occur both at sea and in the just in time supply chain for the production lines here in the UK and numerous other countries.

So are you saying that this fire fighter, engineer, and trainer is NOT being truthful with the battery fire situation then? If so then I think, if your company is so sure that that there is no problem, and or that they have a the perfect solution for controlling and actually extinguishing a battery in thermal runaway, that they should share their knowledge with the world.

Believe me when I say that there is a fortune to be made by the people who actually can solve the riddle of that particular problem when all the experts around the world, fire fighters and fire research centres are scrambling to solve this aspect before they become even more popular and common place on the roads.

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by Graham Butcher

More info on the boat explosion of the LFP battery powered boat at Gaydon marina, LFP are just as dangerous as NMC if not more so, they just don't burn as easily but they can and do explode and can itself be even more dangerous.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

So are you saying that this fire fighter, engineer, and trainer is NOT being truthful with the battery fire situation then? If so then I think, if your company is so sure that that there is no problem, and or that they have a the perfect solution for controlling and actually extinguishing a battery in thermal runaway, that they should share their knowledge with the world.

Believe me when I say that there is a fortune to be made by the people who actually can solve the riddle of that particular problem when all the experts around the world, fire fighters and fire research centres are scrambling to solve this aspect before they become even more popular and common place on the roads.

Fire fighting at sea is very specific and take i these click bait videos with handfuls of salt.

There is a huge technical challenge as whole length of the ship decks for loading the cars on to is the norm and has been for decades. Our Indianapolis class car carriers, including the Silverstone commissioned a few weeks ago, has 12 separate decks and multiple fire fighting systems.

Being a trained at sea fire fighter, trained in marine engineering, naval architecture, sea survival i would give some credibility to such videos if he listed his actual credentials at some point in the videos. There is a guy who I do listen to and it's not this guy.

I expect there will be review of these fires on these smaller vessels and lessons learned as fire fighting at sea, like on land dies evolve.

CO2 flooding of compartments has long been one of the main tools but there are even newer and more effective systems now. I'll post the name of the guy I reckon to be more qualified to comment when I find his details.

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by lol-lol

Re the Narrow Boat.

?

Is it an Electric Boat poowered by an electric motor. Silent running.

Not just a bought with an LFP battery for storage for the boats electric? Charged up or charged from solar.

I know he says motor compartment but that could be an engine.

?

What type of batteries are used for home or business storage / power walls?

This is the guy i listen too..... https://www.youtube.com/@wgowshipping/featured

He just sounds credible and balanced by me, someone who worked at sea on merchant vessels and has been dealing with car transporters in to Immingham and other ports.

EV fires on vessels is probably about 1% or less of maritime mercantile issues. The Red Sea lack of safety is a massive issue and the extra long routes between SE Asia and Europe ie going down and round South Africa and the consequences of that for costs to importers and those few exporters sending goods the other way.

We have already brought on line 4 of these 7,000 car transporters and much of the new tech is in early detection of fires and dealing with them ASAP, much easier to deal with one small localized fire than a deck full of course, that area I am seeing coming on leaps and bounds.

EV risk would have to many many times greater to get even close to the catastrophes related to carrying oil.

There are hundreds of massive maritime oil pollution disasters and end to think of the Torrey Canyon.

Sooner EVs and other methods replace any need to move oil, gas or coal I will sleep better.......

Occasional EV car carrier incidents, which I expect to diminish due to better tech are as nothing compared to the problems with oil tanker ships !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrey_Canyon_oil_spill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

https://www.youtube.com/@wgowshipping/videos

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by lol-lol

Well now, I also listen/watch to him as well and is very interesting to see that he and the Allianz report say that there is an increase in losses due to fires. The shadow fleets are also a major concern.

Edited 29 August, 202529 Aug by Graham Butcher

16 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Re the Narrow Boat.

?

Is it an Electric Boat poowered by an electric motor. Silent running.

Not just a bought with an LFP battery for storage for the boats electric? Charged up or charged from solar.

I know he says motor compartment but that could be an engine.

?

What type of batteries are used for home or business storage / power walls?

Yes, it is indeed an fully electric boat, powered by LFP batteries and is one of a fleet of such boats operated by a hire company at the location for cruising the canal with on a boating holiday.

This video also by StacheD Training fully explains the system used by the boat, is was 100% LFP powered 48V for the 10KW motor and the house power. there was no petrol, diesel or gas used on the boat at all, totally powered by these LFP batteries that he shows in this video. He has been in contact with the operators of these boats during the last couple of weeks following up on the incident and learning from it.

As I have mentioned previously, he is not some Vlogger cashing on clickbait's or trying to sensationalise the real life threatening nature of NMC or LFP batteries (and to think that some people are hailing LFP as a game changer!).

He is a serving fire fighter, fire fighting trainer and also an engineer who is specialising in designing battery packs for electric cars, from a safety point of view (who knew that you could actually learn so much from YouTube eh?)

If you follow this link to his channel, (2654) StacheD Training - YouTube you will see the extent of the problems and the research that fire departments are putting in trying to find a satisfactory solution to the problem before the time when they will become the most common type motive power. The same goes for the other so called green energy, like solar panels and home battery systems, they are a recipe for disaster just waiting to happen.

He has also extensively covered the Luton car park fire and has fully explained the problems associated with multistorey, open sided carparks as well underground ones and the massive problems that firefighters have in getting equipment, men and resources to the location of the fire and the delay in doing so is why they are so deadly. In open car parks like the one at Bristol airport car park, they can get right close to the seat of the fire with their appliances and deal with the fire very quickly, and only 11 cars were damaged as a result. Bristol Airport blaze rips through car park as 11 vehicles damaged | Bristol Live

This also clearly explains just why the Liverpool car park fire also was so devasting and also resulted in the total destruction of the car park, both Liverpool and Luton started on the 3rd floor.

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

In open car parks like the one at Bristol airport car park

FYI Bristol Airport are building, and will open shortly, a multi-storey car park.

@Graham Butcher He is certainly not just a Vlogger. Is he a multi millionaire or billionaire or CEO of a Multi National corporation having any influence of the Global Drive to Electrification?

Just another person maybe p!$$ing into the wind and making a good living out of his training and experience.

Maybe a well recognised expert employed by ferry and shipping companies as well as all the others they will have.

Or maybe they just all wing it.

Yet another Lion Electric school bus catches fire, 3 in 10 months, and the fire is blamed on a diesel heater, but that is not even possible due to the fire starting at the front and smoke coming from the dashboard. Diesel heater is behind the back wheels. Fire not being investigated and the company trying silence the firefighter vlogger, odd behavior then unless there is something to hide....

From previous fires with these buses, we know that there are battery packs along the length of the vehicle beneath the floor and one beneath the bonnet, and in the last link there is a clear photo/video of the left side of the bus and there is zero fire damage anywhere near the left rear wheel which is the location of the diesel heater. Makes me wonder just is going on, so glad the driver and children were not harmed.

School bus catches fire in Montreal, 5 children inside unharmed | CBC News

Five children safely evacuated after school bus fire in Montreal

5 children and driver escape before electric school bus catches fire in Montreal | CBC.ca

Electric school bus bursts into flames, driver and children are okay

Edited 10 September, 202510 Sep by Graham Butcher

But you keeps banging on about Li-on battery fires are extremely hard to put out, extreme high temperature and there would be nothing left of the vehicle.

I'm seeing significant vehicle left untouched. Even the tyres are intact.

Quote from your CBC News link:

A similar fire took hold of another electric school bus in November 2024 in Ascot Corner, Que. In that case, the flames were also born in the vehicle's heating system and didn't reach the battery.

May be time to stop putting flammable stuff into vehicles 😘

This video is full of some very eye opening facts and figures and is well worth a watch and a listen. This is about a electric fire engine, which cost way more than a diesel one and in the 2.2 years that it has been in service, it has failed to be in a servicable status for 87% of the time, so it could only be be relied upon to be able to contribute to saving property and lifes for 17% of its life. Just better hope and pray that your house etc and that any people/animals are not at risk of snuffing it.

It also claims that since Euro 1 to Euro 5 diesel engines, engineering has actually reduced the level of particulates emitted from their exhaust systems by 96% and with every new engine standard stands to be even further reduced.

Below are the various links reffered to in the video and are also lited on the data attached to the Video on YouTube, the last one os which does not want to load in the UK, so I suspect that is is geofenced.

Canberra's issue-plagued $1.6 million hybrid electric fire truck is out of action again - ABC News

Report No. 4 2023 - Procurement of a hybrid electric fire truck

Both of Canberra's 'green' fire trucks off the road for repairs | Region Canberra

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbENfVVhKOUJNNnVhRFIybTJhT0JIYjBFdUxjUXxBQ3Jtc0ttQms1bWQ5dGdIYl9oQkp3UVR3djB2MWl4RkRzeHRmYTB6ckFKVUFxTmlLYmdYcmN6ZE9CWjI3SENkcmxUMDZ5blVoRDhaQzE2Ulh2dXI3VHh2aUhkNjhTd0RfX25CR0dTZERybEtqYzgwak9MZmRWQQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fcitynews.com.au%2F2023%2Fhybrid-fire-truck-under-the-auditors-pump%2F&v=YPNAdDlU98w

Not sure how this is related to (possibly) EV fires.....

"

ESA commissioner Wayne Phillips told ABC radio this morning (29 January) crews discovered a problem with the “primer” inside the truck’s main water hose pump during routine checks.

“There’s a bit of that … but also what’s happening is that we’re training firefighters as well, so we’re reaching 80 per cent capacity of firefighters being trained on the truck.”

This, too, is currently back with Volvo to “rectify a fault that was picked up during acceptance testing here in the ACT”, according to the ESA.

"

For the hybrid fire truck, sounds like a combination of non-powertrain (read, could also happen on a diesel truck) parts failure and usual time needed to get staff trained. Can't really blame lower service status on electric powertrain.

For the full electric truck, it has not yet been put into service. The exact fault for rejection was not given in either of the written news articles.

As a first trial-run with limited order number. Getting complex equipment and associated training through to fully operation status takes time.

End of the day, it's great to see the their on-going commitment to see through to the end. Change is never easy.

"

"We want to bed-down these concepts first and make sure that they're working the way that we want them to before we progress any further," Assistant Commissioner Brewer said.

"But there are fire services across the rest of the world that are buying electric vehicles and are looking at more electric vehicles. It is absolutely the way of the future.

"Transitioning to an electric fleet and going across to electric fire trucks is absolutely one way of reducing [fire crew's] exposure to diesel particulates.

"If the opportunity arose we'd absolutely consider an electric vehicle."

"

@wyx087 this one is directly 100% related to EV fires, seeing that it is Nissan Leaf that was being charged at the time in a shopping carpark, this the accompanying text of the YouTube video which was all shot by the Colorado fire dept. They were able to position trolleys beneath the back wheels and drag the car away from the charger and surrounding trees, evacuated nearby businesses so as to avoid people getting caught in the toxic fumes. After the battery had burnt itself out, they then doused the car inside to put the internal fire out. Then they dragged it onto a tow truck (not sure why they called it a tow truck, it was a flat bet transporter) and then at that point they deployed the fire blanket over the car while it was being taken to special breakers dealing with EVs. All the equipment that the fire crews had used, tunics etc, all had to be collected, double bagged and taken away to a special decomtamination centre and replaced if it can't be cleaned and made safe for the crews again.

None of this is actually required with ICE fires.

Here is the text extracted from the video.

85,401 views Oct 2, 2025 #colorado #electricvehicle #littletoncolorado

An EV caught fire while charging outside a King Soopers in Littleton, Colorado, on September 28, prompting evacuations as firefighters let the lithium battery blaze burn itself out. The New York Post is your source for breaking news, news about New York, sports, business, entertainment, opinion, real estate, culture, fashion, and more.

I think you’ll find there is a decontamination policy for firefighter clothing and equipment after dealing with most fires, particularly vehicles of any kind not just EV.

I know a few uk firefighters and have heard this talked about before. I’m sure someone on here probably knows a lot about it. I don’t doubt EVs will add to the list of things to be decontaminated but you’ve worded that as if on an ordinary ice vehicle fire they would just put the fire out and walk off, they would definitely (at least in the uk) bag up exposed clothing for decontamination.

Great to see firefighter working effectively to treat the threat. Looks like it was all done within a day, if not a few hours. Much quicker than we've been lead to believe based on previous information from this very thread.

The reporting is also spot on, factual. I'm not seeing any whinging like other youtuber and people on this forum.

The fire looks like started in the front of the vehicle, what used to be called "engine bay". There is no battery there, in fact, the battery sits quite further back. This is pure speculation from me, it may have started by heating elements (like any other car) or HV connections as it was rapid charging.

Although I have to say, the empty space contributed to the efficiency in dealing with this fire. Rapid charging in tight enclosed multi-story car parks would have been much more difficult. This kind of charging fire risk does need to be heavily considered on risk assessments for tighter car parks.

Regardless whether the heater or whatever started the fire, it is nonetheless a fact that the battery did indeed enter thermal runaway and witnessed by the jets of flame emitted from beneath the car, not the frunk.

The real truth here is that it does not matter the fact that it was an EV, but that that the battery was in thermal runaway, at which point normal fire fighter techniques are completely 100% ineffective as no amount of water, foam, CO2 or fire blanket will stop the fire until the battery is fully consumed by it.

Upto the point of when the batteries become part of the fire, then the fire is exactly the same as any other car, regardless of its propulsion system. If the car is plugged and charging at the time of the fire, then is possible that the car can be unplugged and moved away from the charger, as was the case in this incident, then it is just the same proceedure as for an normal ICE vehicle. Not all EV cars on fire actually involve the batteries, and is just same for ICE fires, not all of them involve the fuel.

I don't see any youtuber or indeed anyone on this forum whinging, that is a misconception that is currently being held by certain existing EV owners who are in complete denial of the real danger that EV vehicles pose. They are worse than an ICE vehicle and that as their numbers grow, such incidents will increase. Then if a battery goes into thermal runaway, near another EV, such as car parks, especially underground or multistorey then the problems just will continue to get worse until an effective method of preventing and or controlling the fire and its impact.

36 minutes ago, classic said:

I think you’ll find there is a decontamination policy for firefighter clothing and equipment after dealing with most fires, particularly vehicles of any kind not just EV.

I know a few uk firefighters and have heard this talked about before. I’m sure someone on here probably knows a lot about it. I don’t doubt EVs will add to the list of things to be decontaminated but you’ve worded that as if on an ordinary ice vehicle fire they would just put the fire out and walk off, they would definitely (at least in the uk) bag up exposed clothing for decontamination.

Thank you for providing some clarity here, but the fire blanket and the need for dragging the car out from where is, is not required for normal ICE vehicles as they can normally be dealt with and extinguished in just a few short moments with just conventional fire hoses.

The blanket is probably an EV specific thing maybe to contain it if there’s some kind of reigniting, I don’t know.

Dragging things away to prevent fire spreading or further damage isn’t EV specific I’m sure. In fact the firefighters were right up to the vehicle whilst the battery was burning. They wouldn’t do that with an ice vehicle fire, thermal runaway on a petrol tank is an explosion…

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Thank you for providing some clarity here, but the fire blanket and the need for dragging the car out from where is, is not required for normal ICE vehicles as they can normally be dealt with and extinguished in just a few short moments with just conventional fire hoses.

You either have never had fire fighting training or forgotten what you were told. ICE vehicles have multiple materials /fuel which could be on fire and fire fighters, like I have been trained as, must pick the right extinguisher for the fire. Using water on the wrong type of fire can make things much worse, spread the fire, create massive steam plum etc.

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

You either have never had fire fighting training or forgotten what you were told. ICE vehicles have multiple materials /fuel which could be on fire and fire fighters, like I have been trained as, must pick the right extinguisher for the fire. Using water on the wrong type of fire can make things much worse, spread the fire, create massive steam plum etc.

I have been trained as a fire fighter, I was in a factory firefighting team, in a factory which had massive stockpiles of timber, tons of special adhesives, solvents, all kinds of foam sheets, rubber, and simply mases of cardboard as we were producing highly specialised packing crates, cartons and harnesses along with suspensions systems for Marconi Marine, Marconi Radar, Marconi Radio and English Electric Valve Co, all part of the Marconi group who were making all kinds special radio, radar, television and outside broadcast vans, communication equipment and valves for massive transmitters, so yes, we had to be aware of just what was on fire and also access the dangers of other materials becoming involved in said fire.

The plain truth is however, that most ICE car fires do not actually involve their fuel, most are caused by electrical faults within the car or smoking etc. and I have witnessed firsthand many ICE fires and petrol does not explode, it is the build-up of fumes that make up a explosion hazard, which is unlikely that will occur.

Edited 4 October, 20254 Oct by Graham Butcher