8 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

OHOT We did get the advantage that I know the Pass of the Cattle, and have never (that I remember) been over Hellfire Pass.

Yes but the title on the video should have given me. a clue. 😄

 

On second watch it wasn't a great video because somehow the camera angle flatten everything out and it was more like another pass in Wales really.  I don't think I've ever heard of the Welsh pass as Hellfire Pass which probably added to my confusion, I was thinking of but couldn't remember Pass of the Cross.  I remember see a sign that said it was an Austin test road so it was quite apt when I took the Spridget being Austin A30 based.

 

I also learnt after driving it for a few years that another road was called the Devil's Staircase, another favourite of mine but I think these names became more popular when lycra clan men on pushbikes without mudguards became weekend cyclists had to say they'd cycled such places.  When we were full-time cyclist (no car at all) and in the Cycling Touring Club we often had a good country pub as our destination and only racers wore lycra, now even the old boys with pendulous bellys (as I've had) in the CTC wear lycra but each to their own.  We just used to tour round no overnight stays booked just head towards the best looking weather and find the white (unclassified) roads in the road atlas and see what we found, no mobile phone when we first start and lots of lack of signal anyway when my wife first got one.   A lot of the Welsh roads aren't as fast as many in Scotland so suited the likes of a Spridget, a lot of the empty (at the time) Scottish roads were more faster cars territory but they're not the roads I prefer.

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Of course any foreigners or non local Greeks didn't knew that and many times there were small accidents.

Well they should have done that's what the horn is for, to say I am here.

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Personally i see no fun driving in road like this, my mind wouldn't be in the engine noise-sound of tyres in turns-behaviour of suspension-tachometer.

More fun as you can hear the engine and suspension and depending on car induction noise, gearbox, back axle (whine), exhaust (but not tyre noise) and you are think about the road and possibly hazards and other traffic, using your brain and senses, the steering wheel (15.5" (39cm) in a Midget), clutch, gears and hopefully not too much braking, you are driving the car rather than in more modern cars were they do most of the driving for you.  You are enjoying the road, the scenery and the car, not just the car, you can go round (and round and round . . .) on a track if you only want to enjoy the car.

 

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

We don't like roads like these here, first time i saw was back in 1991.

No white lines, due to the high dry grass there was no visibility in the corners and the locals had invented a trick:

Before the corner pushed the horn, no answer=nobody is coming so proceed

Beep as answer=another car is coming, slow down so we barely both can fit in the turn.

Of course any foreigners or non local Greeks didn't knew that and many times there were small accidents.

 

Personally i see no fun driving in road like this, my mind wouldn't be in the engine noise-sound of tyres in turns-behaviour of suspension-tachometer.

The challenge is in judging a safe speed for the corner rather than hooning on and hoping no-one is coming the other way. Please never visit Scotland or Wales if you want to act like Carlos Fandango everywhere.

As i said we have a similar road there and no one likes it.

 

On the other we prefer here Mountain Routes like this:

https://omaefeatures.wordpress.com/2019/04/19/ανάβαση-πάρνηθας-δέκα-χιλιομέτρων/

(British cars and drivers participated)

 

https://omaefeatures.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/1932.1.jpg

 

 

https://www.4troxoi.gr/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/parnitha58-1024x576.jpg

 

 

Even Classic cars run there

 

 

I have made this many times (not slow) with motorcycle and with my Felicia.

 

PS: Which call a city as ''The Athens of the North'' ?

The road looks great and great fun..

 

Different kettle of fish though, closed road racing, most of those cars could have gone up sideways on, the big engine'd American stuff probably did.  😀

 

I didn't see any small British sports cars probably the MGA as the smallest but I did note the BMC Austin Mini triumphant again showing you don't need a big car with big horsepower to be fastest, at least two Minis could have gone up sideways, a small family saloon embarrasses heavy metal again.   The Jagg 120 on crossplys was a credit to the local guy, to be fair to the rest the 120 was still a fast car in 1956 unless  you had a 140.

 

On 09/02/2024 at 13:02, nta16 said:

More fun as you can hear the engine and suspension and depending on car induction noise, gearbox, back axle (whine), exhaust (but not tyre noise)

 

From the tyres squeal i can understand in curbs when the tyre reach it's limits.

 

Matador: OE, out of the question

Michelin: Soft, lot of squeal from the beginning of the curb, very annoying especially and in long Mountain Routes

Bridgestone: Tough, they squeal only when they reached their limit, if i was insist pushing things then the understeer (and intense one) was coming in the next seconds

Toyo: Medium, a little squeal but when this get's stronger i have to slow down.

On 08/02/2024 at 17:50, nta16 said:

One of my favorite driving roads in Wales

 

Aston martin DB 12 test.

 

 

 

To me looks dangerous, the road it's not wide no white lanes and trying to drive sport style (to test a suspension or tyres etc) for me would be a nightmare.

 

Are you sure that's Wales, smooth road, and with fresh looking tarmac and white lines at side.  Whether it is or not, centre white lines are for opposite lanes of traffic but not always used if the road is narrow.  Especially now with modern vehicles so big and heavy and with oversized wheels and overwide tyres if there was a white centre line and the vehicle stayed to the left of it the nearside wheels might be partly or fully off the edge of the road surface.

 

There's loads of width to that road for the wide AM, never mind width it's length looks like it would still be on the road and looks like two Midgets going in opposite direction might be able to pass each other and both remain on the road surface.

 

Remember that's a modern car, loads of electronic and computer driver aids flattering the driver and keeping it on the road (and dulling the driving experience).  The AM has just gone by what looks like a 'passing place' (top right of photo) so I expect the road is clear of other vehicles coming in the opposite direction at least, or the AM pulled in to the passing place and let any vehicle coming from the opposite direction by.

 

Most of us here don't drive on the road as if it's a racetrack, plus on a racetrack the traffic is all going in one direction and no cyclists, pedestrians, horses, free run sheep, rocks, stones, mud.  You drive within the limits of yourself, the vehicle road and weather conditions - that's a dry day with good light, empty road which is twice the width of the car.  The whole car car will be in good condition of service, maintenance and repair, weighted down with sensors and computer programs and activators which will compensate or overcome many small gaps in physical or driver requirements, but obviously physics and driver errors and stupidity can beat the car and its systems and components and parts.

 

You sound like you want to drive too fast on the roads you like rather than learn to drive at appropriate speeds on roads you feel are dangerous, if you learnt to drive on such roads you might find you drive a lot smoother on the roads you like which might be quicker than any (excessive?) tyre screeching technique.

 

If that's Wales AM is a waste on such a dry day having a tin-top instead of drop top and being more of a wider road sports tourer and too modern for fun, any ordinary older car would be more fun to drive than the AM on that road on such a day.  A rear engine Estelle would be great fun on that road.  With somethings in life you don't have to be as money wealth as a King to feel like a King and a King is missing out because of the trappings of his life (Charly-boy was an AM fan from earlier times).

 

I'm now imagining you on that road coming the opposite way in a massive luxury 4X4 stationary in the very middle of the road expecting me in whatever vehicle to pull off the road or try to get by your stationary vehicle, with barely two wheels of my vehicle on the road, so that you remain totally on road, scared to use the 4X4 vehicle even slightly as it was designed for or to dirty your tyres or wheels.  😄  I'm only joking.

Edited 22 February, 20242 yr by nta16
spelling

5 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Are you sure that's Wales

 

I saw that snaphot and i remembered your post, in the video didn't say which placed that road test was made.

 

8 minutes ago, nta16 said:

You sound like you want to drive too fast on the roads you like

 

rather than learn to drive at appropriate speeds on roads you feel are dangerous

 

Fot sure.

 

There is no fun for me to drive in dangerous roads, if in every corner there is  a risk for another car to show up and both of us try to fit in a narrow space then it's a crash gamble.

 

 

Same every day road, classic cars plus Kit-cars can use it.

 

 

Even in a road like this

 

 

which considered in GR as "very dangerous" i can drive a bit fast, if there are no lines or not enough space for two vehicles then NO.

22 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

There is no fun for me to drive in dangerous roads,

The roads you and I are referring to are not dangerous roads, any road can be dangerous if an inappropriate vehicle, driver driving inappropriately is on it.

 

22 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

if in every corner there is  a risk for another car to show up and both of us try to fit in a narrow space then it's a crash gamble.

You reduce the risks by reading the road ahead whilst driving on it and don't go for spaces that are too narrow.  You like many youngsters seem to be confusing numbers on dials with fun or too low or too high speed, get your eyes off the dials more and on to the whole area you can see out of your windows.

 

Those roads look great the lanes each way are very wide so you can carry "speed" and momentum and use the space available in more interesting cars to drive.  As with those Welsh roads (and Scottish) it depends on what and how much is on them at the same time as you, they could be holding you, and others, up or you could be holding them, and others, up.

 

Most, not all, "classic" car drivers, in UK at least, so rarely use the "classic" that they don't know how well it could, or should, handle and don't have the experience, knowledge or trust in the vehicle to drive it as designed.  Many very smart and shiny "classic" cars look very good but mechanically and other ways may be quite poor, not properly fully serviced and maintained or fully driven so are driven as if a precious and/or very old car not capable of much.  Some scruffy "classic" cars can be the same and some very smart and shiny cars can be very good and driven as designed or a scruffy go very well and driven as designed.

 

Over here we have an annual "Drive it Day" for "classics" and older car and motorbikes to promote their existence and as a political move for the umbrella club, I call it "Drive it for only one day of the year Day" then many won't bother if the weather isn't right - it was one day of the year I might avoid using my "classic" so as not to get stuck behind a line of draggy-aresed driven "classics".  I don't drive fast but I don't want or need to drive my cars like they're fragile or incapable and I knew what my "classics" and I were capable of with them as I drove them all year round on all types of roads.

 

Modern cars, particularly super cars or expensive poser cars can also suffer from lack of use by the driver and hold you up on the bends and twisties, again I am not a fast or good driver, and then many accelerate on the long straights to hold you up again at the next set of bends.  Some even hold you up on the straights.

 

I've no trouble with anyone going at their own speed on the road and I'm more than happy to let a faster driver passed me as soon as possible in whatever they're driving.  If I see a complete idiot driver or rider I will where possible either turn off and go another way or pull over and wait for them to get far enough away.

 

Edited 22 February, 20242 yr by nta16
wrong word

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

You like many youngsters

 

seem to be confusing numbers on dials with fun or too low or too high speed, get your eyes off the dials more and on to the whole area you can see out of your windows.

 

57 here.

 

In Mountain routes: eyes first on the road ahead, a glance at rpm and coolant indication and ears to the sounds of tyres (and in case to possible strange noise from gearbox-steering).

 

No music in purpose (distraction).

 

 

On 21/02/2024 at 14:50, D.FYLAKTOS said:

a glance at rpm and coolant indication and ears to the sounds

Why are you looking at those dials on such roads, you can hear the revs and going up a mountain road in warm weather the engine may well get hot but that's normal, an occasional glance is fine but no need for more.  When the needle is near or at 'H' or red it means the engine is hot not overheating, you will know your car dials and when to start being more vigilant.  I had a car that would have the needle on the red and someone else with the same model new told me he drove all round France for a week with the needle on the red without issue, I will be honest and say I changed the fan thermoswitch as my car was an earlier model with slighter larger engine with only one fan and fibreglass bodies hold the engine heat plus these cars had two huge exhaust header gather tube boxes.

 

I'd forgot the next video, it shows a Welsh mountain pass that even you definitely can't consider dangerous.  😉 -  

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

it shows a Welsh mountain pass

 

Very nice Mountain route but i wonder why the lines are _ _ _ (in GR means you can make an overtake) and not solid = which means you can not chane a lane.

For example in 0:43 there is a turn with such marks but who would dare to make an onerturn there?

 

In GR country road mainly is like this:

 

 

 

Maybe you can find in an obsolete area a road like this

 

https://images.greece.com/panoramio/07/23/06/57/5974c766a8e2f.jpg

 

but it's wide and personally i would feel very unsecure to drive fast in a British country road like this:

 

 

No lanes but mainly no good vision ahead.

 

 

 

Looking at the video again that's not the road I was thinking of and might not even be a mountain road but there are so many good roads or good bits of road in Wales.

 

When that video was shot ,for Top Gear, possibly just before the stack-of-****e joined the program and well before his little sycophant joined him, in I guess 1988, the road would have been a speed limit of 60 mph (97 kph).  That wasn't a minimum speed but a maximum so you didn't have to drive the bend at 60 mph.  Broken long white centre line means hazard, you can overtake on a broken white line but as always only when safe to do so.  A solid white line on your side of the road means it's generally not safe to overtake but you can overtake or cross the solid white line in some circumstances but obviously only if it's safe to do so.

 

So you just because it's a 60 mph (97 kph) road with broken long white centre line doesn't mean you can do 60 mph and overtake  before, on or after the bend.

 

We aren't quite yet at the stage where some American or other computer program has to remind us how to drive or take over our driving (well they already partially do with modern cars) and need to be told not to put our head under a wheel and leave the handbrake off or let someone drive over our head (well most of us I hope).  I remember reading the Owners Manual when I got my MX-5 in 1999 I couldn't believe it a third of the pages at least were full of safety warnings some were ridiculous but then the car was aimed at the American market where some would sue anyone for allowing them to act like an idiot without specifically explaining what idiotic things they should not do with the car.  Even then they would have had a different book as the car was called a Miata over there (and LHD) and of course they have American English langue with different words for things like "wing" and "boot" and different spellings.  Of course in the Japan home-market the car was called an Eunos (and RHD same as UK) and had UK extras as standard.

 

I couldn't see the British road jpg you linked to as my virus app didn't like it, put it up as an image here from your own device, perhaps I might misremember that road too. 😄

 

11 hours ago, nta16 said:

I couldn't see the British road jpg you linked to as my virus app didn't like it, put it up as an image here from your own device, perhaps I might misremember that road too. 

 

 

The GR road in an obsolate area in the country without lanes is this

 

 

 

If you are a local guy and know that road extremely good then you can move a bit faster than normal, if you are not local guy and see that part of road you slow down.

For sure a road like this it's not proper to test your new suspension-brakes-tyres, you must be careful all the time.

 

Loads of roads like that around England and Wales at least, that looks fabulous but it does depend on how much and what type of traffic it gets on it and when.  As with all those types of single track roads with hedges either side you want to pick your times if out for a fun drive.

 

Roads  that size often have grass growing in the middle of the tarmac, can clean a line on the underside particularly if it's been raining.  The fact that that road doesn't have grass in the middle may suggest it's been resurfaced fairly recently(-ish) to photo taken and/or the road is used more frequently than others like it.  These are the things a driver may consider.  By the third world state of UK roads now it might suggest it's an older photo but as it's a UK government election year I expect suddenly more roads we will see more holes filled and resurfacing.   

 

Obviously you as always adjust your speed for the road and circumstances but you don't have to fear any problems on a road like that.

 

When you're in a low set sports car with your buttocks nearer the road surface it obviously also means your head and eyes are also lower so you don't see over hedges or walls even on wider two track or more roads so you get used to looking out, listening, smelling what might be ahead or around, on country roads it's best not to drive through or brake on slurry or large animal droppings - especially if you have no doors on the vehicle.  😄

 

Edited 24 February, 20242 yr by nta16
spelling

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If you are a local guy and know that road extremely good then you can move a bit faster than normal,

Only if you  consider and allow for all risks and circumstances, allowing for the unexpected and another vehicle with or without local driver.  For obvious and various reasons most accidents are more likely to happen nearer your home.

 

Oh yes.

 

 

That's an excellent advertising video and video in itself, high level production.

 

I've been on a Lotus M100 club run with my mate driving his Elan M100 in the peak district area, as you saw in the video some of the roads are good but often with too much traffic on and did you notice the motorbikes you often get lots of them on that road and in that area, on the bends and twists they hold you up and a lot are Sunday-rides or occasional rides and don't know how to behave on the road or with their bikes.  Motorbikers used to be known to some in the medical professions as "organ donors".

 

As you saw the Lotuses could have ben two abreast on those roads, and did you notice how wide the modern Lotus looked compared to the original Elan (at 1:38) and drivers of modern Lotuses need long straight for speed or they get bored, the Elan wants the bends, narrow roads with tight bends.

 

Personally I much prefer the Welsh or Scottish roads but each to their own wants or needs.

 

Paws4Thot will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the following photo is from my first time of going on the "Bealach na Ba" ("Pass of the Cattle") in Scotland in the late 20th century, when I still had very dark brown (black) hair and carried more weight, in our 1974 MG BGT (1800cc) that was my everyday and work car.

Edited 25 February, 20242 yr by nta16
missing word

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

Paws4Thot will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the following photo is from my first time of going on the "Bealach na Ba" ("Pass of the Cattle") in Scotland in the late 20th century, when I still had very dark brown (black) hair and carried more weight, in our 1974 MG BGT (1800cc) that was my everyday and work car.

I couldn't swear to the age or location of the photo (or indeed identity of the person), but the car is indeed a 1974 (or earlier) BGT (chrome bumpers are a giveaway there).

For the benefit of the Greeks, an MGB (either body) of that age was probably not capable of more than 100mph (160kph) absolutely flat out.

3 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

For the benefit of the Greeks

 

If has not potholes and it's wide enough for an overtake then it's fine. 

22 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

If has not potholes and it's wide enough for an overtake then it's fine. 

An MGB (roadster or GT) is a car, not a road!

3 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

An MGB (roadster or GT) is a car, not a road!

 

I was reffering to the road of the @nta16 photo, no problem with the horsepower.

One of my favourite car shapes was this:

 

I might not be sure of the person or the location but am certain of the car as I had 2 or 3 years and it was my first "classic" (overpriced, overvalued, old) car, if I'd had bought a second-hand or even new MX-5 instead I would be many, many, tens of thousands of pounds better off now.

 

I didn't even want an MGB as I had no idea what they were, I thought all GTs were (Rover 3.5) V8s and didn't know of the Roadsters (1800cc) soft-tops, I saw a restored Triumph GT6 in a garage at Towcester and admired the shape of those but I was talked out of looking for one by a chap at work.  I didn't know until after I' had talked to him that he just happed to be the organiser for the local autonomous MG Owners Club.

 

After I got the BGT a boyfriend (engineer) of one of my wife's friends had said he had always thought of getting one so I let him have a drive of mine and he later bought a soft-top Roadster so he returned the favour and let me drive that.  As the GT had a servo for the brake and his (1973) Roadster didn't initially I was just interested in finding the different to brake feel, allowing for the (fixed) metal roof on mine, difference in tyres and overall, he was a typical engineer, tight-fisted, re-use old fittings, straighten out a bent screw I expect, so my car would be better maintained and running.  Anyway as soon as I drove his car with the top down I knew I had made a mistake so i bought a Mk4 Austin Healy Sprite (soft-top).  Another car I'd never heard of but I saw one whilst visiting a work client and liked the size and look of it so noted the badges (I knew a little of the "big Healeys").  The local MG guy explained to me it was only a badge and very minor differences to a Mk3 MG Midget ((split) chrome bumpers).

 

It was just coincidence and chance I got a Austin Healey instead of an MG ( both from this era are known as "Spridgets"), as a teenager I knew an older mate- of-a-mate who was adopted by well-to-do parents so he had a quite new "rubber-bumper" MG Midget (1500cc Triumph engines!) and he took me for a ride in it.  To me it seemed so fast, where I grew up you never saw anything like sportscars, let alone anyone own even an old one let alone new.

 

I can't remember doing 100 mph in my BGT but it was good for around 90 mph in third gear overdrive, I would often use third gear and go into third gear overdrive from a slipway onto a fast dual-carriageway or motorway (up to 70 mph obviously) or for back road overtaking and you didn't have to lift your foot on the accelerator, or dip the clutch pedal, as many thought, just flick the dash toggle switch to engage overdrive.  I forget the figures now but hp was below 100, and they had to detune the 1275 Mini Cooper engine when they put it in the Spridgets so that it remained well away in hp from the bigger more expensive MGBs, but the B-series engine torque on the twin SU carbs was pretty reasonable.  The B even when a new model in 1962, as a Roadster only then, was never a sportscar really more of a sports tourer.  Bear in mind by the 1990s oils (engine, gearbox/overdrive, diff) were better, I always used Shell Optimax(?) petrol when I could (have a book of their stations selling it), mine I put on electronic (expensive original Lucas optical) igniter head instead of the then poor quality circuit breaker points, K&N carb filters with richer needles but other than that and proper regular servicing and maintenance it was standard, not fast-road but not the usual neglect mechanical with shiny paint (tartan red respray) or nasty bright shiny chrome wire wheels, factory Rostyle (which look good on a B but not Midget).

 

Below from shortly after buying my first Spridget, meeting up for a local MG run, me and a mate in the Spridget, as it was bought (wrong Spridget Rostyles anyway and note the silly tiny sun visors they soon went wheels later), and my wife driving the BGT which she rarely did.  At the first stop on the run I asked her why she was taking it so easy as we were behind her and she said the BGT didn't seem to want to go particularly well up the long steep hill and she had to change down to third gear, I had a quick look round the outside of the car, felt the rear wheels and suggested she made sure she fully released the handbrake, I can't laugh too much as I have certainly done it on another car, but in my limited defence it is more difficult to tell with a V8.  😁

 

Edited 25 February, 20242 yr by nta16