When your car is being serviced etc, would you expect your car to be covered by your insurance or the garages/dealers?

[Graham Butcher]

I received this email last week, I remember the garage being flooded and that it was built on a well known floodplain but would have expected that the planning authority to have made sure that protection was built-into the plan.

 

Hi Graham,

Generally, garages are places you take your car to get it repaired, right? So if you took your vehicle to a garage, only to find it written off a few days later, you’d likely be a tad miffed. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what happened to customers at Inchcape’s Jaguar Land Rover garage in Derby back in October. If you can cast your mind back that far, Storm Babet was raging, and the result was a flood at the dealership. Several cars that were in there at the time were damaged so badly that they needed to be written off, but here’s where the controversy comes in: Despite the cars being under Inchcape’s care at the time, they didn’t take on the responsibility for the cars, telling the car owners they had to claim on their own insurance.

And for various reasons, those payouts won’t cover buying an equivalent car, leaving several of the drivers significantly out of pocket. One particularly galling part of the story is the customer whose Jaguar I-Pace was in the garage at the time. While the car was up on a ramp, and therefore safe from the flood, the vehicle was in for a battery change (as the old battery was defective). And guess what wasn’t up on the ramp? Yep, that’s right – the battery. Whether it was the old or new battery is immaterial: if it’s the old one, then it was going to be scrapped anyway; if it’s the new one, then surely it’s the garage’s property and responsibility? Not according to Inchcape, whose reputation looks pretty likely to suffer as a result of all this. You can read the full story here, but I’d love to know – what’s your take? Whose fault is this, and who should take the blame?

Grant

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[Ootohere]

There was the many posts about this already, was it in the EV section?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/518128-land-roverjaguar-dealer-inchcape-in-derby-flooded

 

Then there was the Member who was told that the technician was not insured to road test cars. That thread could be in any section.

Edited 15 January by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

True, there was a post there, I posted in then, but at that point it was assumed that dealer's insurance would cover the cars. When it became apparent that was not the case I thought that maybe it was better in the insurance section because the same applies to all cars and not just EV's. 

[Ootohere]

It is not over until the fat lady sings, or maybe until customer get the dealerships owner into court. 

 

 

Edited 15 January by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

@RootedWhat do you make of that? Do you think that someone is hiring them to sue for damages, or do you think that Nelsons are touting for business like those ambulance chasers?

[Ootohere]

Touting for business. 

 As others might and customers of Inchcape might well go down the route of taking legal advice and then civil actions. 

 

Inchcape will have taken legal advice you would imagine, and the advice of their insurers. 

  It will all come down to the T&C,s in the end. What you sign when you hand the keys of your vehicle to them to then take care or not of it. 

Also what your insurers believe and what they do. 

[Graham Butcher]

I don't know about you, but I don't read all the T&Cs when I take it in to a proper service agent. I tend to expect that they will have all the proper insurance and Health and Safety requirements in place to properly take care of your car should the worst happen.

[Ootohere]

I fully expect when a vehicle is in the care of a main dealers that they are responsible for the cars safety and care & storage.

 

Something that the Motoring Journals should maybe cover.  Autocar, Auro Express etc.  rather than the regular rubbish about what some manufacturers plan to launch in 2 years or more time and how cheap they will be then. 

[kodiaqsportline]

I don't know the answer ( can take an educated guess tho ) but if someone doesn't read the T&C and simply assumes, then they have no room for complaint.

 

A little story which echos of the above:

 

I bought a new Volvo V50 when they first appeared in the UK. A few days later travelled from Scotland to Manchester where the car came up with a fault saying do not drive. Long story short, Volvo assistance ( the AA ) supplied me with a rental car and the AA returned the car to Scotland on a low loader. They contracted out a local recovery firm to return the car. We went round the car with a fine tooth comb noting everything - and I mean everything. There was a hair line scratch on an alloy that I never saw until it was pointed out to me that got noted down. We signed the damage sheet and the car was handed over.

 

Four days later I received a call to say the car was ready to collect. When I saw the car I noticed the rear wheel arch had a big bash in it so went to back in to the dealership.  ( Arnold Clark - say no more! )

"We don't know anything about it."

"Well what about the damage report when you accepted the car?"

"We didn't do a damage report. We didn't actually accept the car, we didn't even know about it, we just turned up for work and there it was, parked next to the barrier". The keys were posted thru the letter box, not even a note. We called Volvo and they told us the story."

 

The damage was such it looked like a crow bar had been used to release the straps that held the wheel on to the low loader. Looks like they tried to prise the strap loose, the bar slipped and it hit up and underneath the wheel arch. So I contacted the delivery firm...

 

"We delivered the car at 4am"

"err, what about the damage report? When collecting the car we did a comprehensive damage report then signed an agreement, so I expect the same when you hand the car over?"

"There was nobody there so we did the report ourselves"

"You did the report yourself !!  Nobody to confirm it?  4am on a foul February morning in Scotland...  How could anyone conduct a damage report in the dark in high wind and pi55hing rain?"

"It was probably vandals"

"Vandals? Vandals break windows and damage doors and steel things from inside the car, are you telling me the vandal bend down on his knee with a crow bar and hit underneath the wheel arch? The car was YOUR property, YOU had an obligation to make sure it was handed over properly in the same state you received it?"

"Best contact a lawyer" came the reply!   If that guy was standing opposite me, I'd probably have punched him at that stage.

 

So I first contacted Volvo assistance. They said it was between me and the the AA. "But my contract is with you". Ended up contacting the AA, they didn't want to know either. So I contacted the legal assistance arm of my insurer and their advice was it would be too expensive to take the company to court, in a case where they thought I'd loose !!! 

 

I simply can't believe it. I could have taken them to court myself but same scenario, it's an expensive game if you loose; it's much easier paying £100 excess.

 

The one thing I learned from that experience is never to take out legal assistance on my insurance because they're not interested unless the case is 100% win and there's money in it for themselves. If it's that obvious then I don't need anyone to act on my behalf.

 

So in summary, if the garage want to play the 'computer says no' game, then basically you're stuffed. You can take all the advice in the world but even if that advice is you'll 'probably' win, that means there's a chance you may not. 

 

That JLR garage?  Under normal circumstances it'd be a public relations disaster for JLR to tell those claimants to feck off, but their typical clientel are so stupid, they'd still buy a JLR product without hesitation. Those owners have been shafted IMO yet I bet most of them will go straight back out and buy another JLR product because it makes them feel superior. ****s. They'll probably have to leave their next car at a dealership when it break down.  No wonder folk are having trouble finding insurers who'll insure their Range Rover. 

[Graham Butcher]

I'd say that standards have most certainly been dropped over the last few years and companies are bending the rules left right and centre because they know that they can and nobody will enforce the rules on them but the rules will almost certainly apply to us the little people because money talks, b******s

[Graham Butcher]

I came across this article today about a Halfords service centre writing a customers car off. They claim that their driver was only doing 25mph at the time of the crash and now the owner is £2000 out of pocket and has his insurance costs increased as a result, even though he was not driving the car at the time.

 

 

Halfords stood by its employee’s claim that the Alfa Romeo was being professionally driven at 25mph. Photograph: Ian Tubbs© Photograph: Ian Tubbs

ABirmingham man who took his beloved Alfa Romeo to Halfords Autocentre for a routine service has described his despair after it was written off on a test drive by a staff member, leaving him more than £2,000 out of pocket.

Ian Tubbs contacted Guardian Money when, rather than helping a customer whose car was “completely destroyed” in its care, Halfords refused to accept liability for the collision and the financial losses he suffered as a result.

 

Halfords initially stood by its employee’s claim that the car was being professionally driven at 25 mph, and that the damage to the vehicle was caused by a third-party vehicle hitting the customer’s car. Pictures of the car show the front driver’s side is completely smashed in and two wheels are missing.

“The whole thing has been a nightmare,” Tubbs says of the saga that began just before Christmas when he asked the Shirley Halfords Autocentre to service his cherished Alfa, which had cost him £23,000.

But rather than getting a call that evening to say his car was ready, the centre manager said his car had been in an accident, making it, he says, sound “as though it was no big deal”. However, on his way home from work, he came across the remains of his car, which he says had “clearly” been involved in a very serious crash.

He has since learned that the car clipped two other vehicles, and had travelled a further 50 yards after colliding with a tow truck. Only some railings that were damaged by the impact stopped the car from careering on to a busy roundabout.

 

The police on the scene told him that the driver, who was with another member of staff at the time of the crash, claimed he had been driving at 25 mph.

Tubbs says Halfords was unhelpful from the start. The collision happened on a Friday and it said the earliest it could supply a replacement car was Monday afternoon, forcing him to hire one to get to work.

An initial police report seen by the Guardian and shared with Halfords says witnesses describe seeing the car swerving in and out of traffic before hitting the kerb and then the railings. The driver and passenger then started arguing with the driver of a low loader who has blamed the Halfords driver for the collision.

Tubbs’s plight has only worsened. Halfords’ insurer, Aviva, offered him £19,000 for his car, upped to £19,500 after he complained – but still £300 short of what he believed to be its full value. His hire car had a puncture, resulting in a £600 excess payment.

 

The final indignity came when Tubbs questioned why his car insurance had risen £300 for the car he bought to replace the Alfa.

It turned out that his insurer had paid out two claims made by the owners of cars his Alfa Romeo had collided with before the ultimate crash. These claims were wrongly on his record and will push up his premium for several years.

“To this day I have had no meaningful apology, and no offer to compensate me for what happened,” Tubbs says. “I have had to overpay for my insurance, pay to take taxis to get around. I’ve lost £600 to the car hire firm, and spent time looking for another car. I have been really shocked by way Halfords has behaved,” he says.

However, after Guardian Money’s intervention Halfords has entered talks and is seeking to settle the matter amicably.

A Halfords spokesperson says: “We recognise the distress caused by the recent incident of a collision during a routine road test by our technicians. We followed the necessary procedures by notifying our insurance company. We’ve apologised to Mr Tubbs for the inconvenience caused and we’re working to resolve this matter directly with him.”

 

Halfords’ insurer, Aviva, stood by the value of the payout and said it would cover any expenses he incurred as a result of the collision. It is too soon to have established liability as it is awaiting the final police report, it said. It is also arranging that the claims paid out by his insurer be moved across to its books, meaning it will no longer be on his record.

 

[Paws4Thot]

55 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I came across this article today about a Halfords service centre writing a customers car off. They claim that their driver was only doing 25mph at the time of the crash and now the owner is £2000 out of pocket and has his insurance costs increased as a result, even though he was not driving the car at the time.

I'm inclined to say that the owner was partly at fault, tor taking a decent car to Halfrauds for service!  

[Winston_Woof]

“traders have a responsibility of care under the Consumer Rights Act 2015”.

The garage might have a sign on their premises saying that they’re not responsible for any damage - this can be considered an ‘unfair term’, which means they’re still liable 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-car-repair/
Under the section "If the garage damaged your car"


To my mind that's reasonably clear cut, any damage caused is the dealers responsibility and its up to them to argue with any insurance company they may use to cover their "duty of care" obligations
 

[Winston_Woof]

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I came across this article today about a Halfords service centre writing a customers car off. They claim that their driver was only doing 25mph at the time of the crash and now the owner is £2000 out of pocket and has his insurance costs increased as a result, even though he was not driving the car at the time.

 

 

Halfords stood by its employee’s claim that the Alfa Romeo was being professionally driven at 25mph. Photograph: Ian Tubbs© Photograph: Ian Tubbs

ABirmingham man who took his beloved Alfa Romeo to Halfords Autocentre for a routine service has described his despair after it was written off on a test drive by a staff member, leaving him more than £2,000 out of pocket.

Ian Tubbs contacted Guardian Money when, rather than helping a customer whose car was “completely destroyed” in its care, Halfords refused to accept liability for the collision and the financial losses he suffered as a result.

 

Halfords initially stood by its employee’s claim that the car was being professionally driven at 25 mph, and that the damage to the vehicle was caused by a third-party vehicle hitting the customer’s car. Pictures of the car show the front driver’s side is completely smashed in and two wheels are missing.

“The whole thing has been a nightmare,” Tubbs says of the saga that began just before Christmas when he asked the Shirley Halfords Autocentre to service his cherished Alfa, which had cost him £23,000.

But rather than getting a call that evening to say his car was ready, the centre manager said his car had been in an accident, making it, he says, sound “as though it was no big deal”. However, on his way home from work, he came across the remains of his car, which he says had “clearly” been involved in a very serious crash.

He has since learned that the car clipped two other vehicles, and had travelled a further 50 yards after colliding with a tow truck. Only some railings that were damaged by the impact stopped the car from careering on to a busy roundabout.

 

The police on the scene told him that the driver, who was with another member of staff at the time of the crash, claimed he had been driving at 25 mph.

Tubbs says Halfords was unhelpful from the start. The collision happened on a Friday and it said the earliest it could supply a replacement car was Monday afternoon, forcing him to hire one to get to work.

An initial police report seen by the Guardian and shared with Halfords says witnesses describe seeing the car swerving in and out of traffic before hitting the kerb and then the railings. The driver and passenger then started arguing with the driver of a low loader who has blamed the Halfords driver for the collision.

Tubbs’s plight has only worsened. Halfords’ insurer, Aviva, offered him £19,000 for his car, upped to £19,500 after he complained – but still £300 short of what he believed to be its full value. His hire car had a puncture, resulting in a £600 excess payment.

 

The final indignity came when Tubbs questioned why his car insurance had risen £300 for the car he bought to replace the Alfa.

It turned out that his insurer had paid out two claims made by the owners of cars his Alfa Romeo had collided with before the ultimate crash. These claims were wrongly on his record and will push up his premium for several years.

“To this day I have had no meaningful apology, and no offer to compensate me for what happened,” Tubbs says. “I have had to overpay for my insurance, pay to take taxis to get around. I’ve lost £600 to the car hire firm, and spent time looking for another car. I have been really shocked by way Halfords has behaved,” he says.

However, after Guardian Money’s intervention Halfords has entered talks and is seeking to settle the matter amicably.

A Halfords spokesperson says: “We recognise the distress caused by the recent incident of a collision during a routine road test by our technicians. We followed the necessary procedures by notifying our insurance company. We’ve apologised to Mr Tubbs for the inconvenience caused and we’re working to resolve this matter directly with him.”

 

Halfords’ insurer, Aviva, stood by the value of the payout and said it would cover any expenses he incurred as a result of the collision. It is too soon to have established liability as it is awaiting the final police report, it said. It is also arranging that the claims paid out by his insurer be moved across to its books, meaning it will no longer be on his record.

 

Here's a thought. If a dealer/garage etc is performing road tests should they actually be displaying trade plates?

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

Here's a thought. If a dealer/garage etc is performing road tests should they actually be displaying trade plates?

That is a good point, if they had done that then maybe the claims made by other owners would have been made direct to the dealer/garage rather than the car's real owner so those claims against him would not be there.

[Winston_Woof]

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is a good point, if they had done that then maybe the claims made by other owners would have been made direct to the dealer/garage rather than the car's real owner so those claims against him would not be there.

Guess they should be really/maybe ???. WOnder how many actually do though?

https://www.gov.uk/trade-licence-plates
 

Trade licence plates are number plates you can use on vehicles your business has for things like selling, repairing or testing.

If you display trade licence plates on any vehicle, your employees and customers can drive the vehicle for certain purposes without having to pay to register and tax it.

For example, if you sell cars, you can use trade licence plates to allow your customers to test drive vehicles on a road.


Interestingly when I bought my Superb it's the first time ever I've taken a test drive (in a dealers car) which had trade plates supplied


Also

https://www.blueschoolofmotoring.com/blog/2021/03/19/trade-number-plate-laws-in-the-uk/

 

Trade number plates are still required by those in the motor trade driving a vehicle on public roads even when a vehicle is already registered, taxed and insured by its owner. The trade plates can indicate that the vehicle is being driven by someone other than the registered keeper, and they mean the driver is complying with the trade number plate licence holder’s trade insurance.

[Warrior193]

I'd expect that any business performing this type of work would be legally compelled to have public liability insurance to cover customers property in their care.   

Edited 13 April by Warrior193
correction

[Ootohere]

Do they not all request these days that you remove personal property from the vehicle? 

 

& then please turn off any videoing equipment to protect the innocent,  & clearly untrustworthy employees. 

[kodiaqsportline]

6 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

Here's a thought. If a dealer/garage etc is performing road tests should they actually be displaying trade plates?

 

No. Aren't trade plates only required for cars that are untaxed?

[kodiaqsportline]

I don't know how the insurance works in that instance, but it makes no sense to me.

 

Assuming the driver of the Alfa ( Halfords employee ) was found to be at fault then I'm confused.

 

Unless you specifically name a driver on your policy, or have an ' Any driver policy'  ( do those even exist these days ? ) then wouldn't the policy resort to  3rd party fire and theft?   So how come the Alfa owners insurance is paying ou the market value of the car if the driver at the time wasn't named on the policy? 🤪

 

It sounds as if it's being treated as if the Halfords driver ( or whoever was responsible ) had crashed in to the owners car.  In that case, his insurer has paid out and any additional losses would be claimed against the 3rd party insurer in normal fashion. So what's the problem?

 

I wouldn't trust that press article as far as I could throw it as they're only interested in sensationalisim - anything that makes headlines. In reality there's no story.

 

Why did his insurance rise £300?  Why does anyones insurance rise?  Nobody, not even his insurance broker can pinpoint why it's risen by £300. They're just guessing.

 

 

Edited 13 April by kodiaqsportline

[Stonekeeper]

I think there is some confusion going on here with the OP title and the story.

 

 

Aviva, Halford's insurer paid The claim. it says so in the story.

 

The owner of the car should have submitted a bill to Halfords for his Car hire etc for them to pass on to their insurance Company Aviva. He is a third party in that claim.

 

The puncture cost is because he didn't add tyre cover to his car rental, which he could have done and it would have saved the bill and the extra cost for the cover would be in his invoice as a third party claim on Halford's Aviva policy.

 

After that somehow the Claim must have been recorded on the insurance Database against the vehicles History as a claim by the insured.

 

It will all have probably been resolved by now as it says at the end of the story.

 

But saying all was well in the end doesn't sell copy as they say.

[Graham Butcher]

6 hours ago, Rooted said:

Do they not all request these days that you remove personal property from the vehicle? 

 

& then please turn off any videoing equipment to protect the innocent,  & clearly untrustworthy employees. 

No, I have never been asked to do that when having any of the cars I've had over the years, when taking them in for any servicing or repair work to be done.

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, kodiaqsportline said:

I don't know how the insurance works in that instance, but it makes no sense to me.

 

Assuming the driver of the Alfa ( Halfords employee ) was found to be at fault then I'm confused.

 

Unless you specifically name a driver on your policy, or have an ' Any driver policy'  ( do those even exist these days ? ) then wouldn't the policy resort to  3rd party fire and theft?   So how come the Alfa owners insurance is paying ou the market value of the car if the driver at the time wasn't named on the policy? 🤪

 

It sounds as if it's being treated as if the Halfords driver ( or whoever was responsible ) had crashed in to the owners car.  In that case, his insurer has paid out and any additional losses would be claimed against the 3rd party insurer in normal fashion. So what's the problem?

 

I wouldn't trust that press article as far as I could throw it as they're only interested in sensationalisim - anything that makes headlines. In reality there's no story.

 

Why did his insurance rise £300?  Why does anyones insurance rise?  Nobody, not even his insurance broker can pinpoint why it's risen by £300. They're just guessing.

 

 

No you have it wrong, Aviva are Halfords insurer and they paid the owner what they valued the car at. He needs to have a frank discussion with them and give them proof that the car was or is worth more than that, I had to do when my car was written off for me as the insurers failed to take into account the significance of the L&K model and just valued mine as a normal Superb.

 

The other problem is that the other cars that the Alfa hit, their insurers filed a claim against the Alfa owners insurance as the only info that they had it seems was the Alfa registration number? Running that through the insurance database would reveal who the car was insured with and hence the claims were made against his insurer rather than Aviva.

 

Once a claim has been filed, regardless of if it was paid out, it seems that it remains on your record for 5 years and will affect your premiums until that 5 years is up. I have the same issue with damage being done to my old car by a car wash machine going rogue. The owners of the machine paid up, but as my insurance were informed of a possible claim being made against them, entered it onto the database and now my insurance is costing me more even it was recorded as no actual claim being made. It seems that insurance is legal robbery after all and I did start a thread about on here a while ago.

[J.R.]

I thought your old Superb was involved in a collision with another vehicle, was it written off by a car wash machine?

[Ootohere]

Thank goodness someone posted this already.