WARNING Bosch Brake Pad Quality Dangerous

[xman]

Indeed when I bought some Bosch Discs about 4 years ago it said made on China on the box. I returned them, I will not use safety critical parts made in China or India regardless of Brand.

 

Not that it stops the true country of origin being obfuscated. i.e. if stuff is made in china but packed or "finished" in the EU, what can they get away with as far as labelling?

 

Having said that, I know a lot of new cars now contain Chinese etc manufactured components.

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, xman said:

f I can motivate myself I will drop the faulty pads into the ECP branch and ask them to be returned to Bosch as a safety concern issue.

 

Make sure that you get to see the Bot who has been dealing with you in person, oh hang on................. 🤣

 

Neither ECP or Bosch give a flying **** so don't waste any more effort and angst on them.

1 hour ago, Doofy said:

The last time i bought Bosch pads was about 6 years ago when i had my old Octavia, Also got them from ECP, Country of manufacture on the box was ''Made in China'' 

 

Like most companies with a good name they exploit it by licensing their name to be used by the lowest cost producers to convince pigeons to pay a premium price thinking they are getting a premium product, Bosch wont do it with their core products like power tools, they may be made in Malaysia but in a factory like one in Germany run to the same QC standards.

 

I mean ask yourself have Bosch ever actually made brake pads and discs? Maybe ABS control systems but brake pads, I very much doubt it, but they will allow their name to be used to generate profits, ask yourself did Caterpillar one day say "hey guys lets make cheap shonky clothing!" ? Or did the Ford Motor Company say "I know, lets go into making the cheapest AA batteries to be sold in Poundland!" ?

 

A lot of the tat that bears their name like the Ford batterie with the blue oval Ford logo are just the shonky merchants trying it on, Ford are not going to waste their time chasing them in a market so far removed from their own.

 

55 minutes ago, xman said:

I bought some Bosch Discs about 4 years ago it said made on China on the box. I returned them, I will not use safety critical parts made in China or India regardless of Brand.

 

I have been using Chinese brake discs for the last 20 years and they have always been great, I fitted them in place of the OE cheese rust magnets and they lasted the life of the car which in the case of the MK1 Octavia was another 16 years and 150000 miles, I would not pay the silly prices I see quoted on here for supposed name brands which in reality are usually the same products in different boxes.

 

Brake pads are a different matter, all my vehicles have had the smaller brake discs and are really put to the test with my overloading antics, the cheap pads have been appalling, often the cheapest discs I can get come bundled with a cheap pad set, I am talking about circa €35 the axle set, I throw the pads away and buy branded ones (I cant for the life of me recall which ones I prefer, its been so long now) and they are invariably cheaper on the shelf from a local Norauto than from the net.

 

Sorry to hear of your responses Xman but they are pretty much what I would expect. Ignore my flippant comments about the AI Bot, I can see now that you have had several exchanges with ECP, the end result is the same though, just wear the person down.

 

 

Edited 2 February by J.R.

[xman]

@J.R. You might be right about AI bots. Some of the emails have slightly strange sentences included, just look at the one I posted earlier. The replies came back really quick too. Sometimes within minutes. The CS rep changed her name after 3 emails for the next 2 without explanation.

 

I'll wait and see what happens next.

 

Its interesting to note that the EU is considering extending product liabilty from the current max 15 years to 20 years and to cover products manufactured outside the EU

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-a-europe-fit-for-the-digital-age/file-new-product-liability-directive

 

[Jocko]

I delivered for a Motor Factor a few years back and we sold Chinese discs and pads and "Chinese" discs and pads. The "Chinese" discs were the same price for two as the others were a piece and a box of two weighed about the same as the box with the single disc. Sometimes garages would ask for a set of each and let the customer decide which ones they wanted to pay for but usually, they insisted on the good ones.

[xman]

@J.R. has been proved right.

 

ECP Bot no 3 now deployed informing me that Bosch warranty is 24 months/24,000 miles so case closed.

We've solved your request!

AI in action. Didn't understand the issue. Safety/QA not warranty.

 

Pads going in the bin along with Bosch's reputation

 

On 2nd thoughts I'll take them back to the store and instruct them to return them to Bosch for QA to investigate. Whether they do is another matter, but at least I tried to inform them before they kill someone.

 

Edited 3 February by xman

[sepulchrave]

So you're supposed to change the pads every two years or 24k, not fanny about tickling them indefinitely to pinch a couple of bob.

 

Case closed!

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, xman said:

@J.R. has been proved right.

 

I was being cynical and sarcastic, I really wanted you to prove me wrong.

 

It has taken me a long time for the penny to finally drop that most of the frustrating E-mail exchanges I have had in recent years with (not) people in companies that seem to completely miss the point and use annoying platitudes like "have a great day!" and "thank you for reaching out to us" have been bots, I just had not realised how advanced they had become and yet despite that they are still light years away from being even semi-competent.

 

It coincided with the phase when you could never get through on the phone lines and many companies and organisations stopped showing them.

 

And then  when I do get through its to someone even less competent in comprehension than a bot, maybe they are now bots and I have yet to twig.

[HeavyMetalRich]

I do see this happen to brake pads relatively frequently up here. It is one of the reasons it is essential to have your brakes inspected at each service and any separation of the material from the backing could be caught before getting to the same point as @xman.

 

 

[xman]

No technician carrying out regular servicing would look that closely, even if they take the wheel off (which in most instances they don't) even then I doubt you can pick up potential seperation by visual inspection.

 

The car had its MOT 4 weeks earlier, the tester inspects the pads and discs pretty closely according to the rules (1.5 mm min pad thickness etc)

 

I accept that if you live in Shetland you probably need to check your brakes more frequently, but even then, pad seperation should not be an issue unless you regularly drive off road / through water.

 

Its a quality issue, specifically the use of "black steel"

 

https://yijingbrakes.com/why-do-friction-materials-separate-from-the-backing-plates-and-how-can-i-avoid-it/

 

https://trade.mechanic.com.au/news/brake-pad-delamination-here-s-why-it-happens

 

https://www.materialsperformance.com/articles/material-selection-design/2018/09/advanced-corrosion-rust-drive-brake-pad-failures

 

Edited 4 February by xman

[sepulchrave]

I thought it was "pink steel" that was the problem for us older fellas! 😅

[xman]

Finally AI Bot 4.....

 

"Thank you for contacting us, we'd love to hear what you think of the support you received. Please take a moment to answer one simple question...

How would you rate the support you received?"

 

🤬

[26DIPP]

I had a bit more luck with ECP when I bought Brembo pads and discs for my daughter's FII in 2019. The front brakes developed a real juddering when the brakes were applied. I went back to the shop in 2021 and they refunded the discs and pads and I went for a set of Pagids.

 

Re. some people suggesting to change pads every 2 years, I must be dicing it badly as on my now nearly 10 year old SII I am still running the first set of discs and pads.

[xman]

Well what a surprise! Sean from ECP has contacted me and requested I pop the pads into my local branch and they will send them to Bosch for analysis. Will keep you all updated of anything transpires.

[J.R.]

On 04/02/2024 at 13:10, xman said:

No technician carrying out regular servicing would look that closely, even if they take the wheel off (which in most instances they don't) even then I doubt you can pick up potential seperation by visual inspection.

 

The car had its MOT 4 weeks earlier, the tester inspects the pads and discs pretty closely according to the rules (1.5 mm min pad thickness etc)

 

I accept that if you live in Shetland you probably need to check your brakes more frequently, but even then, pad seperation should not be an issue unless you regularly drive off road / through water.

 

Its a quality issue, specifically the use of "black steel"

 

https://yijingbrakes.com/why-do-friction-materials-separate-from-the-backing-plates-and-how-can-i-avoid-it/

 

https://trade.mechanic.com.au/news/brake-pad-delamination-here-s-why-it-happens

 

https://www.materialsperformance.com/articles/material-selection-design/2018/09/advanced-corrosion-rust-drive-brake-pad-failures

 

 

Enlightening reading, thanks for that!

 

From last article "“This is seemingly taking on the specter of an epidemic, likely arising from pads produced with weak or questionable adhesive bonding and/or corrosion protection methodologies,” GBSC concludes. “This remains cause for major public safety concern, and ought to be a call for due consideration of industry and regulatory change.”

Edited 14 February by J.R.

[xman]

After several reminders from Sean at ECP, I finally took the pads in to my local branch of ECP today and handed them over to a slightly bemused Branch Manager as instructed. The idea is the pads will be returned to Bosch for investigation.