WARNING Bosch Brake Pad Quality Dangerous

[xman]

Bosch Brake Pads bought from EuroCar Parts fitted June 2019 along with new ATE discs. So now 4½ years, 45,000 miles  half worn.

Leaving house, slow speed, suddenly loud banging, terrible noises and super aggressive snatching when braking. Then a big bang and no brakes. Partial braking restored after pumping pedal several times gently but obviously metal on metal and very little stopping power.

 

Roadside examination showed friction pad had completely detatched from its backing plate. Pad thrown into road.

 

Fortunate it happened within 20 yards of home and never went above 3- 5 mph. Would have been disastrous had it happened later in normal traffic and likely to have been fatal on a motorway.

 

Cannot trust Bosch Auto parts ever again!!

 

Bonded side of pad

 

Friction side

 

Part no

[xman]

Fortunate too that car has a conventional handbrake and not electric parking brakes as thats what I had to use to stop the car.

 

As the car had no brakes, I couldnt drive it to a garage for repair, so was forced to change the pads myself at home. Not what I wanted to do at my age and this time of year.

 

Fitted Brembo pads from GSF.

Edited 27 January by xman

[skomaz]

That's not good at all...   I'm surprised there was no mechanical connection between the friction material and the backing (ie rivets etc). 

 

Are you sure they were genuine Bosch and not knock offs? 

[xman]

Bought from ECP, as I recall in genuine looking Bosch box sealed with a holographic anti tamper sticker. IIRC it said made in Italy on the box. Looked genuine, doubtful ECP would sell fake parts

 

 

[ApertureS]

36 minutes ago, xman said:

Fortunate too that car has a conventional handbrake and not electric parking brakes as thats what I had to use to stop the car.

An electronic handbrake is still an emergency brake. when the car is moving and you hold the E-brake, it will lock the rear brakes on and release them the moment you let go of the button.

 

Regarding the pads - Brembo are just as bad to be honest! Eurocarparts have a funny way of getting their parts and often sell the cheapest stuff in a rebranded bosch, although normally thats Luk and Brembo, never seen it with Bosch.

 

I hope youve reported it to Bosch/ECP for them to investigate. 

[xman]

Reported to Bosch and ECP

 

Regarding Electronic handbrakes, yes they still work as an emergency brake, but if you have ever tried it (as I have many times on my Superb) they are super aggressive and often lock up the rear wheels. Conventional handbrakes are controllable, electronic brakes are not.

 

I was confused for a few seconds as to what was happening and in a motorway/fast road/ heavy traffic situation, I wouldn't have had time to think and react correctly and I very much doubt my handbrake would save me anyway. I would have just slammed my foot down and hoped for the best.

 

In hindsight, the caliper piston needed to extend to accommodate the gap left by ~7 or 8 mm of lost pad, so I'm not sure putting my foot down to the floor would have restored any braking at all. Would I have pumped? Only if I had enough time to think and react.

 

Edited 27 January by xman

[J.R.]

You could have stopped the vehicle on the footbrake one pump after the initial pedal to the floor probably would have sufficed, the shiny ground bare metal on the pad backplate shows that you actually did do that or drove the car afterwards using the footbrake and no pad material.

 

ECP will not give a flying four X, hopefully Bosch will be concerned with fake parts carrying their logo.

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

That's not good at all...   I'm surprised there was no mechanical connection between the friction material and the backing (ie rivets etc). 

 

Are you sure they were genuine Bosch and not knock offs? 

 

Pads have never been rivetted nor even brake shoes for decades now.

 

Age and corrosion are usually the enemy, I have had maybe 4 instances of it, two on brand new parts, the others through age and being worn right down to the last of the friction material.

 

I have a scraping noise from a rear wheel at present which might be a pad on the limit. I will check it before next driving which could be a few days away.

[cheezemonkhai]

2019 - Add two years essentially doing nothing during covid.

 

Not saying it’s ok, but it may be related to  corrosion whilst sat with zero use for extended periods.

 

It will be interesting to see if Bosch want them back to inspect or otherwise? 

[Murdockman]

This is not a Bosch problem, all  pads are now resin based pads and in doing so this will happenen, in fairness these pads should be changed every 3 years no matter what thickness they are due to  the material breaking down over a period of time,this you can usually see when checking on a service, I always replace pads every 2 years no matter what thickness is left on them we usually do around 10,000 miles a year to me this is a small price to pay knowing that you can drive and brake safely, you will probably find that Bosch will say the pads are covered by a 12 month 12000 mile warranty they might send some new ones but don't count on it

[Paws4Thot]

17 minutes ago, Murdockman said:

all  pads are now resin based pads and in doing so this will happenen, in fairness these pads should be changed every 3 years no matter what thickness they are due to  the material breaking down over a period of time

Cite needed.

[Breezy_Pete]

You make your living servicing and repairing cars @Murdockman, right?

[xman]

19 minutes ago, Murdockman said:

This is not a Bosch problem, all  pads are now resin based pads and in doing so this will happenen, in fairness these pads should be changed every 3 years no matter what thickness they are due to  the material breaking down over a period of time,this you can usually see when checking on a service, I always replace pads every 2 years no matter what thickness is left on them we usually do around 10,000 miles a year to me this is a small price to pay knowing that you can drive and brake safely, you will probably find that Bosch will say the pads are covered by a 12 month 12000 mile warranty they might send some new ones but don't count on it

 

So you are saying that catastrophic brake failure is relatively common and to be expected after 3 years? I think not. Virtually no one changes their pads until they are 80-90% worn or fails an MOT.

 

I have never seen this before, I am surprised the pad even managed to leave the caliper area. The consequences were alarming.

 

I don't want replacement pads, I would like Bosch to investigate the failure in their Quality control. And not close their eyes to this problem like Boeing did.

 

Before someone gets seriously injured or even dies.

[skomaz]

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Pads have never been rivetted nor even brake shoes for decades now.

 

 

I wasn't aware of that I always thought there was some sort of pin from the backing Into the friction material even if that wasn't visible from the front.

[Jocko]

On two occasions I have done 100,000 miles on a set of pads and over 10 years motoring. I have never changed pads until they are worn down and have never experienced a pad or brake shoe failure.

[J.R.]

If Boeing ignored you then I dont hold out much hope for you with Bosch 😁

 

You might just pique their interest though if you include the words possible counterfeit and Eurocarparts, I recommend that you send them a photo of the security hologram if you still have the box, otherwise they are not unlikely to share your outrage and concern.

[J.R.]

On 27/01/2024 at 15:45, skomaz said:

 

I wasn't aware of that I always thought there was some sort of pin from the backing Into the friction material even if that wasn't visible from the front.

 

I have in the past seen indents or holes in the backing plate and the friction material has had locating pegs sticking into them, the idea was that they would take the shear force if the bond was to fail but pad material is very brittle, you could not rely on it holding up under an emergency stop.

 

I know the reason this was dropped, water ingress through the holes was creeping into the bond by capillary action creating rust which seperated the pad from the backing, just like what is visible in the OP's photograph.

[J.R.]

@xman

 

Do you live by the sea and is the car parked outside?

 

Those backing plates are as rotten as a carrot and you can track the water ingress from the inner and outer curves.

[xman]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

@xman

 

Do you live by the sea and is the car parked outside?

 

Those backing plates are as rotten as a carrot and you can track the water ingress from the inner and outer curves.

70 miles inland. Car is parked outside on the drive like all my cars have been. On average, cars in our household go around 70,000 miles between disc/pad changes. These pads/discs went on at 65,000 miles 4½ years ago.

 

Beyond the pad/plate interface the plates are in reasonable condition. Water between friction pad and backing plate is possibly behind the failure, but that shouldn't happen if bonding has been properly applied and fully seal the pad to the plate.

 

@J.R.I recall in previous threads you said you have extremely poor eyesight 🥸 You can't really judge anything from those poor quality pictures as there is a 3d element you can't see.

 

I'll update if I get any feedback from Bosch or ECP.

 

[J.R.]

I know what rust looks like regardless of the quality of your photographs but thank-you nonetheless for your disdain regarding my eyesight.

 

There is a 3D element that I can see, there are voids in the back of the pad that align exactly with the most corroded areas.

[xman]

Sometimes its best not to say anything, this is one of those times.....

[xman]

ECP replied today, asking for the order no. and a description of the fault. Obviously the bot didn't read this thread which I sent them a link for.

[sepulchrave]

I honestly don't understand how you guys make your brakes last so long, I reckon I get 20k out of a set of front pads and 40k from the rears and the discs, I have to replace the rear discs due to corrosion rather than wear and always do the pads at the same time even though they aren't really worn.

 

I drive my car enthusiastically but I don't really thrash it, equally I don't fanny about in it, I leave that to little old ladies who aren't interested in cars.

 

I recently upgraded the front brakes with EBC pads and MTEC drilled and grooved discs and the rears with Brembo Max grooved discs with standard Febi pads and I have to careful not to break my nose on the windscreen now!

[xman]

On 27/01/2024 at 11:38, J.R. said:

ECP will not give a flying four X, hopefully Bosch will be concerned with fake parts carrying their logo.

 

ECP responded very quickly and it seemed they were keen to trace the batch of pads and pass information to the Bosch product manager. I had long since binned the invoice so there followed half a dozen email exchanges to trace when/where they were bought. It turned out that I bought them in my local store on 13/6/19

 

Meanwhile after several days Bosch contacted me

Spoiler

Dear ******

Thank you for your email.  

All Bosch Automotive Aftermarket parts have a 1 year warranty against manufacturer defect.

If you have purchased the parts within the warranty period and you believe they have a manufacturer's defect you can take them back to the retailer with proof of purchase and request a replacement or refund.

The parts are then returned to Bosch to examine.

We urge you to contact the dealer or workshop, from whom you purchased the product and avail yourself of any contractual rights you may have.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
Robert Bosch UK Holdings Ltd
Broadwater Park
North Orbital Road
Denham, Uxbridge
UB8 9UX

Tel: +44 (0) 344 892 0115

Email: [email protected]
Web: www.bosch.co.uk

Make of that what you will...

 

So I thought ECP would actually be the ones to take the matter seriously until I got this

 

Spoiler

Good morning!
 
I hope you're having a great day so far. I wanted to address your concerns about the invoice you received. It appears that the order was made in person at one of our stores. In this case, I kindly request that you reach out to the store manager directly for any issues you may have encountered. They will be able to assist you further.
 
On another note, I've already reached out to our parts manager to inquire about the warranty period for the pads you purchased. As soon as I receive an update from them, I will make sure to inform you promptly.
 
Thank you so much for your understanding and patience. If you have any other questions or need further assistance, please don't hesitate to let me know. Have a wonderful day ahead!
 
Best regards,

 

Regards

********

Customer Service Advisor
LKQ Euro Car Parts

Euro Car Parts Limited,
T2 Birch Coppice Business Park,
Danny Morson Way, Dordon,
Tamworth, B78 1SE,
United Kingdom.

https://corporate.eurocarparts.com/
www.lkqcorp.com

 

This was from another adviser to the original I had been corresponding with. The issue has suddenly been turned around from identifying potential faulty batch of pads to warranty periods.

 

I made clear that my concern was to inform Bosch of serious manufacturing defects in a safety critical product.

 

I think I will remind them of applicable liability law regarding defective products (10 year liabilty for dangerous defects) but I don't think anything will be done.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/defective-products/index_en.htm

 

If I can motivate myself I will drop the faulty pads into the ECP branch and ask them to be returned to Bosch as a safety concern issue.

 

As I originally posted, I will no no longer use Bosch aftermarket brake parts.

[Doofy]

The last time i bought Bosch pads was about 6 years ago when i had my old Octavia, Also got them from ECP, Country of manufacture on the box was ''Made in China''  Didn't fill me with much confidence about them. i haven't bought Bosch pads since either...