2.0 TSI vs 2.0 TDI

[vofcr]

Hi all,

 

You probably got that a lot guys but i'm about to buy a new car and i'm down to decide between Superb mark3, L&K and 2 engines: 

2.0 TSI 220 PS, with less mileage about 40k
2.0 TDI 190 PS, with 60k mileage, 4x4, ULEZ compliant (not that it affects me really)

 

I've got rougly 35mins commute to work every day which would roughly translate 12000miles a year + another minimum 4000 miles of other guaranteed miles that i cover elsewhere. Altogether i'd say 16k/year is bare minimum i'll cover and occasionally it would be higher than that. 

 

I heard both engines are super solid and reliable for mark3... 

 

What would be your take, what's your experiences, opinions on reliability etc. ?  

 

Thanks,

Jacob.

Edited 23 March by vofcr

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

 

The TSI.

 

The TDI & it,s DPF has already done 60,000 miles and you do not know how used up til now. 

35 minute commute only and heating up and the TDI doing regens likely will not be that more economic. 

 

Be sure the DSG,s have been serviced and the Haldex at 30,000 miles 

[vofcr]

5 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Welcome.

 

The TSI.

 

The TDI & it,s DPF has already done 60,000 miles and you do not know how used up til now. 

35 minute commute only and heating up and the TDI doing regens likely will not be that more economic. 

 

Be sure the DSG,s have been serviced and the Haldex at 30,000 miles 

thanks for your input Rooted - good point on DPF, it might be clogged but i've seen somewhere (managed to dig it up to exact timestamp) that VAG come up with clever ways to avoid buildups ? any urban driver that can testify to that haha?

) 

For whatever it's worth that other 4000 miles i mentioned - this will be every 2nd week 140 miles journey. 

 

Thanks

[Ootohere]

If only any of that made a real difference.    Luck of the draw. 

 

You are talking a TDI with SCR. Be sure you have an extended warranty covering the Adblue system.

But now the TSI,s have GPF,s.  

[Bap33]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Welcome.

 

The TSI.

 

The TDI & it,s DPF has already done 60,000 miles and you do not know how used up til now. 

35 minute commute only and heating up and the TDI doing regens likely will not be that more economic. 

 

Be sure the DSG,s have been serviced and the Haldex at 30,000 miles 

35mn is already quite long. And with new water pump technology, TDI heats up quite quickly.

My TDI190 is already 6 years old, no particular issue about mpg or regen though I only have a 15-20mn commute drive. The only thing is to full throttle sometimes (when engine has reached its normal operating temp) to avoid EGR issue clogged with soot.

[Ootohere]

35 minutes if driving all that time is quite long. No stop Start traffic or stop / start on.  

Winter time maybe 15-20 miles before actually 90+ *oC engine oil temp. 

 

Look on the bright side, only a few have issues.  Fingers crossed.

But just buyer beware.  & location location location.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/522156-octavia-mk3-dpf-problems

 

 

Edited 23 March by Rooted

[Danoid]

I do circa £3k a year in my 2016 diesel 190, been absolutely fine except for a/c pipe on the joint “failed” and £1k later and hospital trip it’s all sorted now, and Škoda gave me £200 as goodwill on a non warrantied car so can’t complain too much more

 

Other than that no problems.

 

As you’re undecided which has the best bodywork and colour, cheapest tax and cheapest to insure? 

[vofcr]

1 hour ago, Bap33 said:

35mn is already quite long. And with new water pump technology, TDI heats up quite quickly.

My TDI190 is already 6 years old, no particular issue about mpg or regen though I only have a 15-20mn commute drive. The only thing is to full throttle sometimes (when engine has reached its normal operating temp) to avoid EGR issue clogged with soot.

Oh, it seems you might have an exact or almost exact same spec car - you had it for 6 years as well? Cause that's quite strong testimony to go for a diesel!

Many thanks for your reply! 

Danoid - thank you for your input too, how old is your car and how long did you had it now ? 
As to insurance, tax etc tbh - i just presumed they will be the same after gov shenanigans around that year... was it 2016 / 2017 when they decide to unison prices? cars i'm looking at they're both registered in 2016. 

Thanks,
Jacob

[Bap33]

I answered about mpg and DPF. Otherwise, I had 3 issues:

- Water pump stuck (not that rare with TDI) @62000 km (supported by Skoda France for 90% though warranty was over) 

- Front DCC shock absorbers starting leaking @95000 km (15% Off from the dealer). But that’s not related to fuel type and won’t help to decide whether going diesel or gasoline. 😁

- Sun roof side seal torn off @ 105000

Still not fuel type related either. 😉

 

Note: I´ve been the only owner since new. Now 113000km on the clock.

[brettikivi]

I get 6l/100 from my 4x4 150. I'd expect similar numbers from a 190. BUT: i drive way longer distances than you with minimal town work. If I drive in town, I can see 8. I would like to switch to a 2.0TSI petrol (the 272PS version), but I can't find one and so it will probably be another diesel.

 

realistically, I don't think the 220PS will drink much less than the 272. The same for the 150vs190TDI. My personal expectation with the 2.0TSI would be 7.5l/100 vs 6/100 for the TDIs. That's partly based on a bunch of kms with a rental A6 using the same engine. At 50-60mph on the motorway, I saw a 6 in front of the comma. On the Autobahn or in town, not so much.

 

Translating that back into the real world: at 20000kms/ yr vs 30000kms/yr, that's..

7.5x200 --> 1500l for the petrol, 1200l for the diesel. If diesel fuel is 15% more expensive than petrol, the petrol makes economic sense... but the difference is only 6% (this table as source: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/fuel-prices/)

 

so

155 * 6 *200 --> 1860

146*7,5*300 --> 2190

In other words, that's a £25 per month difference at 20k kms or 12 thousand miles.

 

For 30k kms / 20k miles:

155 * 6 * 300 --> 2790

146 * 7.5 * 300 --> 3285

slightly larger difference, but still only 40 per month.

 

Buy on condition and service history is my take on this. remember the 4x4 will need haldex oil changes, making it slightly more expensive to run. Oh,  and I'd definitely try them; I like both engines. The TDI in my car is louder than the one in the car I test drove Wednesday; the TSIs I've driven (in different cars and tunes) are quieter and slightly more refined, but not much. The 2.0TDI in the A6 is great but the gearing is so long  it's nuts. This is something else I would pay attention to: how the gearing works with the roads you're going to be driving. If you've lots of slow and windy stuff, make sure the car works for you in terms of gearchanges and the gear it picks on those roads. Was also strange testing a couple of V90s the other week - the difference in the two cars, even though they were very close in mileage, was astounding.

[Danoid]

5 hours ago, vofcr said:

Oh, it seems you might have an exact or almost exact same spec car - you had it for 6 years as well? Cause that's quite strong testimony to go for a diesel!

Many thanks for your reply! 

Danoid - thank you for your input too, how old is your car and how long did you had it now ? 
As to insurance, tax etc tbh - i just presumed they will be the same after gov shenanigans around that year... was it 2016 / 2017 when they decide to unison prices? cars i'm looking at they're both registered in 2016. 

Thanks,
Jacob

Mines a 2016 with around 43k miles and had it since 2019.

 

There was a similar thread by someone else and can’t remember the year but it has a euro6e or something like that with even more governance and doing short trips more likely to upset DPF but 30mins like you do will be fine I’m sure

[brettikivi]

.. and I've had mine for 2.5 years, just clicked over 71000 kms in that time.

 

Issues / replacements:

 - front disks and pads last summer

 - lower ball joint at the same time

 - one wheel bearing (total around 800€)

 

 - Battery was replaced 1.5 months ago (-33C really did a number on the car..) (300€)

 - Adblue system pipes replaced two months ago (-33C seems to have frozen the adblue, too... ) (1200€)

 just serviced at €650 including the Haldex, Engine oil + filter, and the battery.

 

Oil services on 1 year schedule, haldex just done. The summer tyres are still good for one season, the winters are fine. Both are 215/55R17. Both were new at the time I bought the car / directly afterwards. Nothing serious obvious on the horizon apart from the cambelt change.

 

I've also swapped all the interior bulbs to w5w philips LEDs and stuck a Lazer 18 Elite on the front under the numberplate. That lights the place up nicely. Oh, and it has a decent stereo in there, too.

 

I commute to Helsinki regularly; that's 400km in one direction. I do both in one day and have no issues. The car is a great long distance cruiser, quiet. It has enormous grip and stability - we have lots of snow and it will happily plough through quite a lot of the stuff at reasonable speeds; Haldex really pushes the power to where it's needed pretty much imperceptibly if it's working correctly. I really enjoy the car.

 

I would like better ambient lighting - for 6 months of the year, 90% of my commute is darkness - and the xenon lights are lacking, especially high beam. But that's fixed with the additional light. The stereo was meh, but I've also fixed that. The only reason I'm changing is I want something with lower mileage. don't really need better kit, the majority is there and it works very well.

[Gabbo]

I have an Octavia diesel 2L 184PS (Non SCR) from 2014.

It's covered almost 240k km in 10 years and I have had no problems with the DPF.

My commute is similar to yours (40-45 minutes each way, 4 times a week).

 

Regularly serviced & I've had 2 issues.

Water pump, replaced out of warranty with 60% contribution from Skoda (common issue in many VAG engines).

Boost pressure sensor wiring, a known build issue from Feb 2014 apparently. (Free under warranty).

 

Even this diesel is warm in around 5-10km except in very cold conditions.

My current superb diesel warms even faster.

 

On a 35min commute, a diesel would be fully warm for most of the journey.

 

I am biased because I've always had diesel engines. I always enjoy the fuel economy around 5l/100km from the Octavia & at 6 with the Superb 4x4 DSG.

Our last petrol GLE was smashing 18l/100km but is guess in a superb a petrol engine could give you pretty decent returns driven suitably.

 

I still believe in Diesel for high mileage, petrol for short mileage but I guess with modern engine technology & current fuel prices the gap between is less transparent than before.

[Ootohere]

^^^^ 

Much of above shows for the OP to maybe KISS.   As well to have a  TSI and get in and just drive it, service it and buy fuel. 

It matters not if there are changes and you end up just doing a few short trips each day in the weather / roads you have around Penrith.

 

[vofcr]

@Bap33 - thanks for your input, water pump has been replaced already on the one that i was looking at

@brettikivi - that's super informative two posts ! AdBlue was one of my concerns, but i guess for UK driving freezing tank / pipes won't be much of a problem haha 😛  i suppose that adblue driver could die out of the old age i guess, haven't checked the prices of the replacements yet. Yeah, L&K trims are sweet and not lacking of anything driver might need! As for a gas vs diesel prices not that much of a difference as you say... How was V90 you mentioned, although this is a bit of an off-topic now hah

@Gabbo - many thanks for your insights That Octavia of yours sounds like a reliable workhorse! 

@Rooted - what is OP / KISS haha ? as to recommendations of the folks so far only diesel users chipped in, haven't heard back from anyone driving TSI... i heard TSI is a good engine but also that everyone recommends changing oil every 5k miles, that would be 3x a year for me! If i'd do less miles perhaps TSI would be better choice but at the minute i'm leaning towards diesel... not to mention that seemingly it's a "choice" of all the taxi-drivers around which must be a good testimony to it's reliability as well hahah

Edited 25 March by vofcr

[Ootohere]

Original poster /  Keep it simple stupid 

 

No idea where you are hearing 5,000 mile oil changes are recommended with Euro 6 TSI,s.   Is it posts on here?

 

TSI or TDI can be on Variable / Flexible Oil & Filter changes of 18,000-20,000 miles but some will still maybe do Fixed oil and filter changes Fixed at 9,400 (10,000) miles,  or Annual 15,000 miles is perfectly fine. 

 

You seem to be inclined towards a TDI and there really is no reason why you should not drive one.

Just be aware that it might not be more economical over the petrol as the miles go on and maintenance is required.

Edited 25 March by Rooted

[numskull]

What specs are the cars? Putting that aside, I went from a MKI 140 and MKII 170 Superb Diesels to a MKIII 280TSI. I had the diesels as I was doing a 22k PA commute. If that hadn’t been the case I’d’ve had petrol engine types. 
I’m not sure how the 220 stacks-up against the 280 in terms of MPG, but I have a silly short commute of 5 miles round trip twice a day and I get a real world average of 24mpg. On the other hand, I’ve just done a drive to Liverpool, which was 198 miles and I’ve averaged 38.4, including 25

miles crawling on the M25

and in the contraflows on the M40/42. So that is probably 8-10mpg less than I used to get in the MKII but frankly, the two cars are like chalk and cheese. 
Personally, for 12k PA, I’d go for the petrol over the diesel. 

[vofcr]

7 hours ago, numskull said:

What specs are the cars? Putting that aside, I went from a MKI 140 and MKII 170 Superb Diesels to a MKIII 280TSI. I had the diesels as I was doing a 22k PA commute. If that hadn’t been the case I’d’ve had petrol engine types. 
I’m not sure how the 220 stacks-up against the 280 in terms of MPG, but I have a silly short commute of 5 miles round trip twice a day and I get a real world average of 24mpg. On the other hand, I’ve just done a drive to Liverpool, which was 198 miles and I’ve averaged 38.4, including 25

miles crawling on the M25

and in the contraflows on the M40/42. So that is probably 8-10mpg less than I used to get in the MKII but frankly, the two cars are like chalk and cheese. 
Personally, for 12k PA, I’d go for the petrol over the diesel. 

thanks @numskull - it's 16k bare minimum PA, i'd say in current situation i'd be doing between 18-20k PA. If not that i'd probably lean towards TSI too... 

[MarkyG82]

A quick play with a spreadsheet shows about 19p/m for petrol and 14p/m for diesel*.  In my experience you can knock a couple of mpg off for DPF so that adds 0.5p/m.  The difference is there and you can gain bring the costs down if you can raise the petrol mpg to 40 which brings it to 16.5p/m.  These are all based on average fuel prices published by RAC.  You may find cheaper fuel in your area.

 

* assuming average mpg of 35 and 50.  Fuel prices at 145ppl/153ppl, petrol/diesel.

[Bud]

One's a nice pleasant car to drive the other is a tractor 😉😆  

 

It's not just about fuel consumption! I find the petrol quiet and refined, cannot hear motor running once warm, comfort and noise level inside is excellent. Personally I hate the sound of diesel engines rattling.

 

But as fuel consumption appears to be the focus, for mine since new:

68k miles

9214 litres

Average 33.96 mpg

Best 41.8 mpg😴

Worst 26.18 mpg😈

 

I used to use tesco super unleaded when I first bought it and it was only 5p per litre difference and that reflected in improved MPG but since that fixed difference has been removed I have used only regular and found it all good.

 

Great car for trips, keep filling it up and get more in, this includes trips to the tip.

Great in snow, with winter tyres, skiing trips to the Alps, getting up this drive to a private parking slot, and do not see need for 4*4:

Also the 4*4 was something like another 4k when I bought it so happy with that saving.

 

What would I change, perhaps have bought Dragon Green but that was not available when I bought this, the only thing I wish I had specced was the heated steering wheel.

 

So if you can put up with a diesel then everything else appears to be much of a muchness but I would strongly recommend you drive both engines before you decide.

 

 

[Bud]

On 28/03/2024 at 08:40, MarkyG82 said:

A quick play with a spreadsheet shows about 19p/m for petrol and 14p/m for diesel*.  In my experience you can knock a couple of mpg off for DPF so that adds 0.5p/m.  The difference is there and you can gain bring the costs down if you can raise the petrol mpg to 40 which brings it to 16.5p/m.  These are all based on average fuel prices published by RAC.  You may find cheaper fuel in your area.

 

* assuming average mpg of 35 and 50.  Fuel prices at 145ppl/153ppl, petrol/diesel.

Also need to build in price difference, as there appears to be a premium for tractor versions so any thing you pay over the price for an equivalent petrol is initially free fuel.