I saw an optional oil cooler accessory for the 1.3 engine.

The oil cooler radiator is placed on the empty space at the right of the coolant radiator and its hoses are connected to the plugs on the engine.

 

My questions are;

Is there any thermostat for oil cooler in the OE set? If there is not, I wonder if there are any negative effects in sub-zero conditions.

 

Another solution is universal fit, oil filter riser plates. Instead of using the plugs in front of the engine, one can connect oil input and output to the riser plate.

Which is better? Riser plate or OE plug solution?

 

Lastly, again, is it better to have a thermostat?

What makes you think you need an oil cooler.  Older cars but with similar old engine like yours would have from factory didn't have oil cooler even in warmer climate countries just lower opening 'water' thermostat and perhaps different 'water' rad fan.

 

If you are lugging heavy loads uphill a lot or towing (in an old 1.3 petrol though?) you might have a need but otherwise not usually.

 

Yes if you have an oil cooler you want a thermostat with it otherwise it's the same as not having a 'water' thermostat in cold weather, the engine will take longer to warm up and then may not reach proper operating temperature in very cold weather or shorter journeys in cold weather and the oil could be overcooled  to work efficiently and fill with nasties and need changing even more frequently than it should already.

 

Oil wants to be at about at least 90c on a journey or engine use, ignore the coolant temperature gauge 90c as they are often biased to read a rock steady 90 when well above or below or moving around and it's coolant temp not oil temp. 

 

For examples only -  http://www.mocal.co.uk/products.html

 

By riser plate do you mean a sandwich spacer plate at the oil filter mounting, if so there are different types and varieties, connections only, ones with thermostats perhaps, full and non full flow so it may depend on the filter type normally used it's position on engine and experiences of others as to which to use and not use for your circumstances.  There may be a factory or accessory oil cooler fixing kit that includes connectors and hold clips for the hoses.  You do not want the rubber hoses unclipped to be cut or worn through by engine or car movement as you can then have a loss of a lot of oil and oil pressure.

 

Unless you are lugging heavy loads uphill a lot or towing (in an old 1.3 petrol though?) a better solution may be to use a very good quality proper (fully) synthetic oil that will deal with hot and much colder temperatures better and offer wider protection with better margins for longer and continue changing the engine oil & filter at book time or distance whichever is soonest.

 

HTH.

 

Edited 3 July, 20241 yr by nta16
remove 'not'

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Lastly, again, is it better to have a thermostat?

For your weather in the winter I have to say yes

Just out of interest roughly where do you live?

 

Your stated location to me seems to be some sort computer or keyboard thing, I've no idea as I've never typed and don't do the three or four finger spread across a keyboard for what's supposed to be a short cut, if I can't generally find from a right-click menu I curse the programmer.

 

I live in a part of England that doesn't that often get that cold but even on a coldish summer's day or night I would never have an accessory oil cooler without a thermostat to it.

 

@R_Blue As @nta16 says, to the extent that anything else I'd add would be repetition or answering a supplementary question.

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

For your weather in the winter I have to say yes

 

Differs than ours in the North Greece for example? Like your birthplace.

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Differs than ours in the North Greece for example? Like your birthplace.

Yeah big time

I don't know if @R_Blue drives under so heavy load that needs an oil cooler (isn't turbocharged).

Nevertheless that oil cooler needs careful placment, maintenance because if something goes wrong the results could be catastrophic, worst that an overheating that may face now.

One click lower thermoswich won't help? An extra radiator?

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

What makes you think you need an oil cooler.

I'm not sure yet. 😐

 

One of the reasons of why I was away from forum was, I've rebuilt the engine at home. A complete overhaul including all seals, gaskets and bearings.

Also, now I have flat head high comp. 136 pistons. Complete new set with liners and piston rings.

I did my first port job on the engine head too. (Not very professional but rather in a safer more basic way)

 

Before the engine rebuilding, I used to lose lots of oil due to external leaks. I've fixed all external leaks.

Until the the very hot days of the summer arrives, there was zero oil loss.

Now I have a weird situation.

 

Sometimes when I stop the engine and restart it after 10-30 minutes later, it welcomes me with a small amount of bluish smoke from the exhaust for brief seconds. Then, the smoke disappears.

This happens only if the weather temp is very hot. Like scorching hot.

This happens only if the engine has been reached full operating temperature.

The chances are high if I forced the engine beforehand. Like climbing a hill. Or shutting down the engine just after exiting highway going 120Km/h.

 

I opened the oil filler cap just after engine stopped and observed some smoke which ended after some seconds.

 

Valve rubber seals?

Have been replaced at the time of engine rebuilding. (But it wasn't me who have made the change.)

 

I've lost like %15-20 oil since the last oil change. Which is nearing 5000Kms now.

 

I had to replace the newly installed combined manifold gasket after the engine rebuilt. Because  there was a coolant leak from intake manifold contact points. The gasket was very hard and crispy. Either low quality or the head is overheating.

 

So if the oil is getting too hot, after the engine shutdown, while the residual heat of the exhaust is heating the head even more, maybe the leftover oil in the rockers area is boiling and creating this smoke.

I don't know.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you are lugging heavy loads uphill

I'm living on a hill.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

ignore the coolant temperature gauge 90c

I have a digital coolant temp gauge. I've cross checked its accuracy before installing it with my multimeter's temp. reader.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

By riser plate do you mean a sandwich spacer plate at the oil filter mounting,

Yes. I've meant that.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

Unless you are lugging heavy loads uphill

Sometimes I do. Because I live on a hill. But no towing.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

a better solution may be to use a very good quality proper (fully) synthetic oil that will deal with hot and much colder temperatures better and offer wider protection with better margins for longer and continue changing the engine oil & filter at book time or distance whichever is soonest.

I always change the oil after 5000Kms. Sometimes 6-7K but never reach 10K.

Currently I'm using an oil which is better than all what I've used until now. (On paper. Claimed by manufacturer) But I'm afraid, naming it might reignite the "oil wars" in the forum.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

Just out of interest roughly where do you live?

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

Your stated location to me seems to be some sort computer or keyboard thing, I've no idea as I've never typed and

It's a reminder for me for the location of "Š" on the Win keyboard. The proper Škoda "Š".

 

I'm living in a city which has summer temps as high as 40ºC. At Winter the temps can reach -18ºC. (-10ºC is common at cold starts early in mornings at winter days)

My location is where I write to. But If you are asking physically, I don't prefer to point it out but it's not a secret either. @D.FYLAKTOS and @Thefeliciahacker know because they saw my road videos. (You've seen some of my videos too) Let's say, East of their location. Across the sea.

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I don't know if @R_Blue drives under so heavy load that needs an oil cooler (isn't turbocharged).

Nevertheless that oil cooler needs careful placment, maintenance because if something goes wrong the results could be catastrophic, worst that an overheating that may face now.

One click lower thermoswich won't help? An extra radiator?

Can driving between 3000-3500rpm @ 5th gear on highway be considered heavy load? Especially at 40ºC weather.

I agree with the oil cooler placement. As you know I have 1.6 radiator. So original place for the oil cooler has already been occupied. Currently I don't know where to place it properly if decide that I need that.

I have 88ºC thermostat with 87-92 thermoswitch. All-season.

I can easily upgrade to even 1.9 Diesel rad. but I know it would be an overkill.

Edited 2 July, 20241 yr by R_Blue

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

So if the oil is getting too hot, after the engine shutdown, while the residual heat of the exhaust is heating the head even more, maybe the leftover oil in the rockers area is boiling and creating this smoke.

If, and I think you believe it is?, the oil smoke is created in predictable usage conditions, try removing the oil filler cap just before you would restart the engine, and see if you get oil vapour expelled from the rocker cover.

8 hours ago, R_Blue said:

But I'm afraid, naming it might reignite the "oil wars" in the forum.

 

No problem at all to mention it, what you see as "war" it's an every day forum conversation in GR. 

 

8 hours ago, R_Blue said:

 

I have 88ºC thermostat with 87-92 thermoswitch. All-season.

 

I have the same thermostat but in 80-85 'C.

 

 

12 hours ago, R_Blue said:

It's a reminder for me for the location of "Š" on the Win keyboard. The proper Škoda "Š".

😆  I am slow and must wear my glasses, I've never noticed the v thing above the S on your name label all makes sense now. 😄

 

Sorry I had to refresh my memory (I am old), location was only for temperatures plus it gives other views and posters more info, same as hills, loads and towing, by loads I meant passengers, tools, heavy objects being carried rather than road speeds and conditions.   -18c and 40c would be very extremes here, for hills loaded up perhaps an oil cooler with oilstat might help if you get a lot of 25c+ days - but the issue as before, when you didn't have an oil cooler, is the oil lost and that's what needs sorting.

 

If you are sure you don't have any external leaks then the oil must be going through the engine, my first thoughts would be things like crank case pressure, things like piston rings I leave to those that know more (I know nothing about such stuff), also how much oil you might lose after engine rebuild in your driving circumstances.

 

At 5,000km I would do another thorough oil (and filter) change and have a look at the oil that comes out, I assume you done an early oil and filter change from engine rebuild and you used basic mineral oil initially from the rebuild.  For the oil IIRC the better synthetics run to 125c with 150c peaks which is hot and suitable for race track use of road-type cars so should cover your use plus previously your oil was OK, mind with high oil loss you were putting in fresh new oil regularly.

 

Things like this are proof to me that using good quality oils with greater protection and margins are a good idea in older cars/engines especially if you care about the car/engine, the oil is worth it for when things are running well but especially if not. 

 

12 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I opened the oil filler cap just after engine stopped and observed some smoke which ended after some seconds.

More for others than me but what colour was this smoke?

 

What coolant temperatures do you show when these oil issues are present and when on the highway in hot weather?

 

How many kms have you done since engine rebuild and how long has this issue ben going on?

 

Those more into the engine rebuilding side will be able to help you more, the issue might not be as big as you might think it is, might go into temporary catch tank just to see or confirm but I could be totally wrong so leave that to others.

9 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

If, and I think you believe it is?,

I don't know. The situation makes no sense to me.

For example, today is scorching hot and I did a gentle travel about 50Km at speeds of 70-80. Stopped several times. Restarted the engine before it got cold. I saw zero smoke today. Weird.

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Sorry I had to refresh my memory (I am old),

Please don't mind it. No problem.

26 minutes ago, nta16 said:

for hills loaded up perhaps an oil cooler with oilstat might help if you get a lot of 25c+ days

+25ºC days will last until October. Maybe November.

 

I have a permanent load, that is LPG tank.(Around 50Kg when full. I think.) I usually have passenger(s).

 

40 minutes ago, nta16 said:

If you are sure you don't have any external leaks then the oil must be going through the engine, my first thoughts would be things like crank case pressure, things like piston rings I leave to those that know more (I know nothing about such stuff), also how much oil you might lose after engine rebuild in your driving circumstances.

Since I've bought the car, I always had external leaks. So I don't know how much a newly rebuilt engine should consume but, according to old posts from various members, oil consumption must be zero.

 

43 minutes ago, nta16 said:

At 5,000km I would do another thorough oil (and filter) change and have a look at the oil that comes out, I assume you done an early oil and filter change from engine rebuild and you used basic mineral oil initially from the rebuild. 

Yes. I did the gentle run-in. Limited to 3000rpm. After the first 800Km, I've replaced the filter and the oil. First oil was a 10W-40. Mineral.

 

45 minutes ago, nta16 said:

More for others than me but what colour was this smoke?

It's not dense. Hard to tell. Maybe light gray.

 

46 minutes ago, nta16 said:

What coolant temperatures do you show when these oil issues are present and when on the highway in hot weather?

In a hot summer noon, coolant temp never reaches above 84ºC when the car is running on highway at high speeds even at 140. Usually its steady at 82ºC. But I have no idea about oil temp.

Today I was traveling at 80 in 5th gear and the coolant temp was 78ºC. Today it's over 35ºC outside.

 

51 minutes ago, nta16 said:

How many kms have you done since engine rebuild and how long has this issue ben going on?

I've checked the recorded data. It's been 4100Km since the rebuild. I saw the first small smoke last month. Maybe at 3500Km range.

 

55 minutes ago, nta16 said:

For the oil IIRC the better synthetics run to 125c with 150c peaks which is hot and suitable for race track use of road-type cars so should cover your use plus previously your oil was OK, mind with high oil loss you were putting in fresh new oil regularly.

 

Things like this are proof to me that using good quality oils with greater protection and margins are a good idea in older cars/engines especially if you care about the car/engine, the oil is worth it for when things are running well but especially if not.

 

6 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

No problem at all to mention it, what you see as "war" it's an every day forum conversation in GR. 

OK. 😁

I'm using Mobil Delvac Legend Heavy Duty 15W-40.

 

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I am using Mobil Delvac Legend Heavy Duty 15W-40.

 

 

See? That's the cause 

Next time use a Synthetic 10W-40 (tested and approved) and everything will turn back to normal (which means Good).

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

That's the cause

NO THAT'S NOT THE CAUSE 

Was, is and it would be as long the Felicia exists.

With Synthetic oil and 80-85 thermoswitch it would be OK, 75-80 is too low and the radiator will work overtimes.

19 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Currently I'm using an oil which is better than all what I've used until now. (On paper. Claimed by manufacturer) But I'm afraid, naming it might reignite the "oil wars" in the forum.

Don't say I haven't warned.

 

I've chosen this oil for a very solid reason. Rebuilding an engine teaches a lot. That's all I can say about the oil.

Very interesting article about the Oil Cooler.

https://club.autodoc.co.uk/magazin/oil-coolers-how-they-keep-your-car-cool

 

Oil cooler: leaks, failure symptoms, problems and how it works

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

t's not dense. Hard to tell. Maybe light gray.

That could be oil or PCV for lots of reasons I think.  Did you make ant other changes during the rebuild other than the piston, any vent changes ( I think you're on a carb?)?

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

+25ºC days will last until October. Maybe November.

Blimey, I would move. 😆  I would certainly want a good oil (may be a 50) but yes you could consider an oil cooler but it must have an oilstat for your winter.

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

In a hot summer noon, coolant temp never reaches above 84ºC when the car is running on highway at high speeds even at 140. Usually its steady at 82ºC. But I have no idea about oil temp.

Today I was traveling at 80 in 5th gear and the coolant temp was 78ºC. Today it's over 35ºC outside.

It depends where the gauge is taking its readings from but they all sound low rather than normal or high but your electric fans might be running and very efficient.

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I've checked the recorded data. It's been 4100Km since the rebuild. I saw the first small smoke last month. Maybe at 3500Km range.

Not big "mileage" since rebuild, others would know better if it might ease with further use.

 

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

I'm using Mobil Delvac Legend Heavy Duty 15W-40.

You must have your reasons but I thought (might have remembered wrong) that you had petrol/LPG this oil seems to be a really heavy duty diesel oil - "Mobil Delvac Legend 15W-40 Heavy Duty is a Multigrade synthetic Blend diesel engine oil that provides protection for diesel engines operating under severe service conditions for both on- and off-highway applications.  Mobil Delvac Legend 15W-40 Heavy Duty is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in a wide range of heavy-duty applications and operating environments found in the trucking, mining, construction, quarrying and agricultural industries."

 

18 hours ago, nta16 said:

That could be oil or PCV for lots of reasons I think.  Did you make ant other changes during the rebuild other than the piston, any vent changes ( I think you're on a carb?)?

Yes there some changes. But I don't think those changes can cause this weird issue.

 

18 hours ago, nta16 said:

You must have your reasons

Reasons.

 

Our engine is a 8V OHV pushrod designed in 50s or 60s. We have a rocker area which has a limited lubrication. There is one more issue.

 

As the technology advanced, oil ingredients have also changed and adapted. But that doesn't mean newer oils can perfectly replace the older standards. 

It's API S for gasoline and CH for diesel.

Additives called ZDDP are required for reliable operation of our engines. As the API level advanced, ZDDP amounts in the oil had dropped.

ZDDP is for lubrication of surfaces which can only get the oil by indirect random splashing. (Just like rocker area in our OHV)

 

I've read a lot and the general application of the industry is, 10W-XX oils are considered for older engines generally, more or less they have a ZDDP additive package.

The "Oil Wars" topic in the forum was hot. But people were fighting the wrong fight.

The issue is not just only about oil thickness when it comes to an OHV engine. Oil thickness is determined by bearing clearances of the pressure lubricated bearings an you can't change it without physical alteration of the bearings.

But, if you don't have an oil without proper additives, (maybe using 0W-30 intended for a modern engine design)

You might end up with this:

 

The one at the right is from my engine. All others have damage too.

 

23 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Next time use a Synthetic

My current choice is synthetic with a guaranteed ZDDP package.

It has a API SH rating and meets the requirements of API SJ. Which is recommended by OHV engine users.

(Favorit's recommended oil was API SG.)

 

These additives are harmful for catalytic converters, they were gradually out-phased.

But, old became new as heavy-duty diesel oil.

 

Is this heavy duty?

 

 

See the data flow on the top of the video.

I used to downshift and climb at 4th usually at 80-90 here and get eaten by the trucks.

This is all 5th gear.

 

As you can see there is a logic behind the oil preference.

But that doesn't mean I'm 100% correct.

 

The oil may not be suitable or even with this oil, maybe it's getting too hot. I'm always after answers.

Edited 4 July, 20241 yr by R_Blue

12 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

It has a API SH rating and meets the requirements of API SJ. Which is recommended by OHV engine users.

(Favorit's recommended oil was API SG.)

 

Old specifications, doesn't mean that we must follow them forever.

When Felicia created no one knew the G12, the 98 octane gasoline, the aramid-fibre brake pads etc, dosen't mean we can not use them now.

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

general application of the industry is, 10W-XX oils are considered for older engines generally, more or less they have a ZDDP additive package.

Time out.

I can't edit my post.

Sorry for the typo.

It is XXW-40.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

When Felicia created

It was the time of API SJ. ZDDP additives were still in.

 

https://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php

Edited 4 July, 20241 yr by R_Blue

As with everyone else what oil you want to put in your engine and what oil believes you want to accept and reject is up to you but you have taken on the popular beliefs but that doesn't mean they are correct.

 

Just to give you a bit of background the British engines in my British "classics" from the 1960s and 1970s were first built in the late 1940s and early 1950s (that one went on until the new century, year 2000, with some minor updating  at the start of the 1980s).  These engines were 8v, OHV.  I have been driving cars with these engine since 1977, I wouldn't be able to guess how many miles but a lot and not usually slowly.

 

The (proper) Mini that had the A-series engine and shared gearbox was what promoted the use of the early multigrade (20w50) engine oils in the UK at least.

 

In the 1990s I used the contemporary Mobil 1 15W-50 in my cars with those engines and the common wisdom was that the oil would ruin the engines (rot my teeth and steal my looks) usually by old-farts with "classics" that they very rare drove and then like a maiden aunt going to Sunday afternoon tea as they thought the cars would fall apart if driven as they were designed to be.  Those engines were fine and performed well and I put many tens of thousands of miles on them the few years I owned them (and I have kept all my teeth (including a baby tooth still in my jaw) and my looks).

 

ZDDP is a useful marketing tool to sell special "classic" engine oils at higher prices for an older oil that should be less expensive, in the UK at least, if want ZDDPs it is the whole additive package that matter more than one ingredient - and then how many ZDDPs is required?  Having researched this a bit I have never found a figure for ZDDPs (usually shown as ppm - part per million) for the multigrade 20w-50 popular engine oils in the UK in 1960s nearest I could find was perhaps  600 or 900 or in between yet when I last debated this the "specialist" "classic" car engine oil with ZDDP in bigger letters had IIRC something like 1300 ppm.  Now apart from 900 being the highest figure I saw for 1960s as I put before wear protection is given by a range of additives in the additive package.

 

Found this table for API grades of maximum zinc (I don't know if it's correct).

• SM 800 zinc
• SF-SL 1000 - 1400 zinc
• SC-SE 1000 - 1200 zinc
• SB 1000 zinc
• SA 0 zinc

I have no idea what caused your wear, perhaps too little zinc in an unsuitable additive packages to the engine oils used might have contributed, perhaps not, depends on the particular oils used in your engine in your driving conditions from when the engine was first built (or rebuilt).

 

I am a bit confused why you have chosen a diesel oil and then used API for petrol engine, plus what makes SJ suitable for OHV and not later specs, the link you put up goes to at least SM for backwards compatibility.  ETA: just thought diesel may have higher zinc levels(?), I have never looked at diesel engine oils specifically. 

 

For your Mobil diesel oil heavy duty means in chisel trucks, mining, quarrying and agricultural industries which I suggest would involve far more heavy-duty loads than your car could ever take  - "Mobil Delvac Legend 15W-40 Heavy Duty is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in a wide range of heavy-duty applications and operating environments found in the trucking, mining, construction, quarrying and agricultural industries."

 

No specific to your car but when you have time have a look at these videos for general information regarding ZDDP and wear. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg7edyYgD8E

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AJ_DO5zfVE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erxjPicpYyw

 

HTH.

Edited 4 July, 20241 yr by nta16
ETA:

I haven't heard of any factory cooler on front-engined Skodas, do you have some more info?

 

A relatively common modification is oil/water heat exchanger from VWs - an aluminium cube that fits between the oil filter and the engine block. It only requires custom tube to fit the oil filter and some pipe work for coolant.

This already solves the temperature regulation issue and it's good enough for more powerful engines, so it should work.