Hi all,

 

I've recently purchased a 2020 Fabia hatchback SE L 110hp TSI.  It's a lovely motor which I really enjoy driving except for one thing.  When I move from first to second gear the engine loses power and takes a few seconds to pick up.  Initially I thought this was a fault but I read an article in Auto Express where the reviewer had a similar experience:

 

  'Approaching our first roundabout, one less desirable drivetrain characteristic became evident. (My passenger) said he would have been in second gear rather than dropping down to first, as I did when we rolled onto the clear junction. But I explained that, having had to drop our speed down to 10mph to see the clear roundabout above the overgrown verge, the engine would have bogged down a little if we had been in second gear, because the turbo wouldn’t have been up to speed.'

 

In this example the driver is slowing down rather than accelerating, but he is referring to the same problem essentially.  But he goes on to complement the Fabia:

 

 

'There were no such complaints when joining the M1 motorway, though. As I brought the Fabia up to 70mph on the slip road, its brisk acceleration surprised (my passenger). Then, at a cruise, we discussed how refined the Fabia was; it may not have the handling zest of a Ford Fiesta, but it’s certainly a civilised motorway companion....It was then I realised that I wasn’t thinking about the Fabia; I was just thinking about how I was driving it. Its engine is sweet, its gearbox is sharp, its steering – while lacking in feel – is accurate and well-weighted, and the chassis is grippy, competent and refined.'

 

Has anyone else experienced this lag in second gear?

 

 

Have a search of this forum (and others) it's been reported on here before.  If your whole car is fully serviced (which ain't much more than engine stuff now) in a timely manor then just drive the car you are sitting in behind the steering wheel not the friend your car has in they way they drive their car (but not yours).  Being told how you should drive is normally done by a wife, certainly is with me, the verbal handbrake, non-existent hazard warnings,  I don't need all the electronic drive "aids" and "assists" on the more modern cars as I have passenger seat assistance.  Make you friend walk!  😁

I think that the OP was just "cutting and pasting" content from an article that had be read covering this issue - really just to compare with their experience.

 

Small Turbo charged petrol engines will be a bit flat at the low end of the rev range, maybe just still adjusting to how these engines are, I have no issues with my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS 6MT, but maybe that older engine suffers less of that having a slightly higher capacity.

 

Edit:- I'm old enough to have run a couple of MK2 Ford Escort Ghia 1600 - they had the Kent engine with a single twin choke Weber carb, max power and max torque tended to appear quite high up the rev range, so changing gear when accelerating up a slope/hill, usually meant changing back down sooner than later! Then the much later Ford Valencia 1100 Fiesta engine in maybe HCS version, lots of torque low down tending to lead, when only owning it for a short period in time, to great expectations of good things later up the rev range - only for me to discover "that's the lot" - bother, better pull back into the "slower" lane.  Both of these quoted engines were NA though, so just other design issue/aims.

Edited 1 November, 20241 yr by rum4mo

Hopefully previous 1.0 110 ps will be along with their experiences, @vandjq you will need to take into account comparisons of the different gearboxes and whether, if available, sport, standard or eco drive settings are used.  

 

@rum4mo I misread the post as I was thinking of a previous post where I thought it was a friend of Van's  😆-  but Van ends with the question.

 

Only VW and those used to the larger engines to carry the lardy VW cars would think 1.2 litre (and 110 ps with turbo) is a small engine, the modern craziness of higher hp (sorry PS) figures encourages the thought that a 1 litre car can't be used outside of city-centres (mind so much of its power is needed to drag the modern car weight around and turn the oversized wheels and tyres. 😁

 

Looking at the car's Owner's Manual should give the owner/driver some idea of the power band and driving it deals with real world reality.

 

To my memory a 1600 Mk2 Escort Ghia probably didn't have 110 hp probably nearer 90 hp of the 1.0 and 1.2 Fabias but I could be wrong, Mk1 1300E is more in my memory, other than sometimes getting lifts in a very noisy Mk1 Mexico in the mid-80s with ZZ Top's Eliminator album cassette playing loud, which must have been on loop because it was always playing when I got in the car.  My 25 year old Capri 2.0S had FoMoCo 'Weber' with IIRC the auto-choke that still worked (many as you probably know had to go back knob and cable).  Unless tuned up the *v with carb(S) tended to be for low to meduim revs for torque with twin set up perhaps going higher end for the ego figure.  More so, but similar, to the moderns now it depends how well the car was serviced and maintained, and perhaps set up wit the carb(s) as to how well the engine might go.  Today they go better with modern oils, perhaps cleaner petrols even if 5-star is missing.

 

As I put in another post you drive the car your sat in behind the steering wheel, revs and gears as required by the thinking driver, not the dumb computer suggests as it can't se all the circumstances ahead, yet, at least.

 

Our 110tsi 6 speed manual has the same “problem”  being used to the  torque of a pd diesel I was very surprised that I would need to drop to 1st when merging on to roundabouts. My other motors have 3.0 v6 engines so loads of low speed torque 😀 they’ll never get to the 62mpg that Fabia did on our airport run🤪

@nta16, the first MK2 Escort Ghia 1600 with the minimalised (FoMoCo special version) twin choke Weber did tend to cause concern when pulling out onto the main road after work in winter time, but in general the auto choke worked okay, the second one's auto choke was faultless. I seem to remember that the theoretical max output was close to 90hp, the MK3 Escort Ghia 1.6 CVH with the horrible  V V FoMoCo carb had similar theoretical max output, but 5 gears and better drivability than the older Kent in GT guise.

 

I think that I was aiming at getting a MK1 1300E but I'm glad that I missed buying one of them, at the time that I bought the first MK2 Escort Ghia 1600, most MK1 1300Es had terminal tin worm, while owning MK2 Escort 1600 Ghias, I did have a look at a used MK2 Escort 1600E - but after its 2 years of life, the leather seats looked absolute crap, so I gave that idea a miss.

 

These MK2 Escort 1600 Ghias were okay for going away on holiday in when only 2 people on board with luggage, but for commuting locally with 4 people on board and using hilly roads - not much fun.

nta16 & rum4mo - Thanks for the trip down memory lane.  Back in the 80s I had a Mark 3 Cortina and a Mark 2 Escort which both fell part due to rust.  The Escort sun roof leaked water onto the passenger seat, which did not amuse my wife 😒  The Cortina's rear valance fell off when I went over a speed bump 😒  I don't remember anything about their horsepower, carburettors etc.  Nowadays it's not rust that sends cars to the scrap yard, but expensive electronic failure like ECU etc.  Before buying the Fabia I had a Ford Focus Mark 2 1.8 for 9 years, which was the best car I have ever had (I'm aged 69).  I have a light foot but never had to rev it and there was no hesitation in any gear and power delivery was really smooth.   But I don't need that sort of family car any more.

 

I really like the Fabia.  I went walking today and gave 3 friends a lift.  I was amazed that all our rucksacks and boots fitted in the boot and the engine was quite happy to haul four adults and their equipment up some fairly steep hills.  But I still had problems pulling away from junctions, There was plenty of torque in 1st, but it drops right down after shifting to 2nd.  I have to floor the pedal then it shoots away, which is not very safe in my opinion.  Now I appreciate that modern emission regulations mean that we need smaller engines with 3 cylinders.  But I don't fancy pulling onto a busy roundabout then losing power just when I need to accelerate.  A friend of mine said he had similar problems with the same engine in a VW Polo.

 

I've been reading elsewhere in this forum that you can get the engine remapped to reduce turbo lag, so I might consider that:

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/477883-lag-in-2nd-gear/

 

 

Be very selective about what mapping and where it's done as the German marques including VW have for decades used very complex and intertwined computer programs so it really needs somebody who really knows what they're doing to start messing with the programs and introducing any changes.  You should find threads or posts on good maps and mappers for what you want (rather than just, possibly short term, ego figures).  

 

It's not the engine that's the issue otherwise just mapping it to get over your issue would strain the engine.  At your age you may remember much smaller and less powerful engine cars carrying families of 5, 6 or 7 going uphill and down dale.  VW's rough sounding 4-cylinder are what VW are used to building so one cylinder less is unlikely to be smoother.  I/we had a few Japanese cars of much less cubic capacity with turbo and  the engines were very sweet and I/we had one that was a Merc engine that was very good engine too (from last century so before quality dropped).

 

My wife's 2015 had a damp seatbelt recently, door seal leak I hope (another non-durable part to the list) I also had that on my last car, soft-top roof leaked, drop in this British company quality of manufacture.

 

My wife had a 1974 Cortina Mk3 2000E in the early 90s, 'Executive' but no headrests and the old IIRC rubber foot bowl for windscreen washer and IIRC foot?) dip switch.  My 25 year old Capri was low mileage, below 100k-miles, and Ziebart'd from new so very little rust.  The Capri enthusiast who bought the car from me found out why the tailgate was so heavy, it was full of Ziebart.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

I’d suggest filling up with a couple of tank fulls of Shell V-Power unleaded. We have run our 110bhp Fabia from day 1 on V-Power and it seems to go amazingly well. It’s the earlier 4cyl motor and DSG so perhaps that also makes a difference. Continuing along memory lane the Mk 3 110bhp Fabia performance stats match, maybe even better those of the Mk 1 Golf GTI. The performance stats for the current 2.0TSI Karoq match those of the original Audi Quattro, although I suspect  the Quattro would corner better!

Or any E5 petrol, 

maybe just fill up on the less expensive but no worse Tesco Momentum 99 (99 ron minimum) , or Sainsbury Super Unleaded which is 97 ton minimum. 

Oop in the North East of England that already in the filling stations Winter Formulation Tesco Momentum  99 might be much better the 99 ron.

16 minutes ago, thamestrader said:

Continuing along memory lane the Mk 3 110bhp Fabia performance stats match, maybe even better those of the Mk 1 Golf GTI.

Figures and numbers or needle position on dials mean nothing it's all about how the car feels to the driver, modern cars are more about the driver being a passenger behind the steering wheel, 1970s cars like a Golf GTI are about the driver actually driving the car.  Plus the size and weight differences, wheel and tyre sizes.  Modern cars better at getting you from A to B in more comfort perhaps but a lot less about the driving experience. 

Well, I found the answer to my turbo lag.  I bought a pedal box from Bluespark Automotive for £200.  I live near their workshop so they fitted it for me.  They set it to Sport mode and I was amazed at the response. There is no turbo lag at all.  This 110hp engine does not need any extra power, but the pedal box makes it feel as if it has, especially below 2000rpm.  Previously it took ages to move through the gears at lower speeds, but now I can get up to 5th quickly and still keep the revs low, which will probably save fuel.  There are 10 modes and I tried Comfort mode but the response was a bit slower, and there is an Auto mode which ‘learns’ your driving habits.  Race mode is self-explanatory and not for an oldie like me.  Each mode has 10 settings and I found Sport setting 1 is best for me.

 

I strongly recommend this product to anyone who is frustrated by turbo lag.

Thanks for reporting back.

 

1 hour ago, vandjq said:

but now I can get up to 5th quickly and still keep the revs low, which will probably save fuel

Going through the gears briskly can help but having too lower, or low, revs all the time might not, or help with engine and other wear, being in the correct gear and revs for the driving conditions and what's ahead will help mpg.  To get the nth degree of mpg, and reduce emissions, out of an ancient technology like an internal combustion engine VW have overstressed things.  Don't be ruled by their suggested gear selection as the car's computers aren't yet able to drive the car like a good human drive and allow for what is ahead as well as in the immediate present.

 

There are lots of ways of saving mpg but all are compromised by the fact that the modern car is so heavy with over sized tyres and wheels and often only carrying one or two and on short journeys.  If you want to save mpg to save fuel costs then driving technique is important, on top of the other mpg saving stuff.

 

The new pedal box shows just one example of how much more control of the car the computers have taken over from the driver.

 

Good luck 

Edited 20 December, 20241 yr by nta16