May seem like a simple question and I hope it makes sense. Been having drive problems. Changed wheel bearing and after driving for about 2 weeks drive went completely. Checked everything and narrowed it down to clutch or drive shaft. Been pointed out I may have pulled drive shaft from gearbox end during bearing change but as car was fine for 2 weeks after not sure how ? Question is how to check. Shaft seems solid and cv boots are intact, when I turn road wheel by hand shaft and outer cv joint rotates as well as inner cv  including flange at Gbox end with no noticeable roughness or clicks. Shaft seems solid No noises when it happened either. Car just reved and came to a stop. Am i checking it correctly or am I missing something

Alasdair

If the 6 bolts that attach the inner CV to the drive flange are still there, the only way it could come out is if the bolt holding the drive flange in has broken.

Pretty sure if that happened,  your gear oil would have fallen out all over the place.

1 minute ago, Breezy_Pete said:

If the 6 bolts that attach the inner CV to the drive flange are still there, the only way it could come out is if the bolt holding the drive flange in has broken.

Pretty sure if that happened,  your gear oil would have fallen out all over the place.

That makes sense. Never removed inner bolts Just outer hub nut etc. and inner bolts are still in place. Couldn't see it going back together either or been able to drive car for two weeks if I had pulled inner cv joint and it hadnt gone back in again. Reckon then its the clutch thats either worn out all of a sudden or contaminated with fluid. Changed slave as noticed internal gator was split as I removed it to check it hadn't seized in the out position. Seemed slightly damp plus clutch pedal was returning ok but may have been leaking over time. No signs of fluid under car but it could be sitting in bell housing and not draining. Had fluid level drop  but had leaking rear brake cylinders as well as front flexi which were repaired for MOT so perhaps didn't notice I had another leak in the slave. Just hoping I didn't haave to remove box but can't think of anything else.

Thanks

Alasdair

Not sure, but I think if clutch fluid had leaked from slave cylinder,  it would also have leaked from the bell-housing/engine joint.

There's a thin metal gasket, but I doubt it would hold fluid back.

 

When you move gear lever around with engine off, does it feel like it's actually going into gears?

 

8 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Not sure, but I think if clutch fluid had leaked from slave cylinder,  it would also have leaked from the bell-housing/engine joint.

There's a thin metal gasket, but I doubt it would hold fluid back.

 

When you move gear lever around with engine off, does it feel like it's actually going into gears?

 

I think so. Gear cables operate and selector moves and clunks into place/goes forward back and up and down. Difficult to tell if its in gear as there seems no drive from clutch at all. With one side jacked up and I rotate road wheel with gears I think are engaged it does feel very slightly different. When it was running the car would want to creep forward at medium revs slightly in first and also slightly creep back in reverse but you could stop it with one finger it was so slight. Also a slight humming/rumbling  sound when in first and slight revs. 

Alasdair

Also remembered that if engine is running and no clutch pedal pressed it grates when trying to select reverse. Stops grating when clutch is pressed and seems to engage further but no drive. Its got me stumped.

Alasdair

Put the car in gear and jack up one front wheel off the ground, try and rotate it, you should not be able to.

 

Repeat with the other front wheel.

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Put the car in gear and jack up one front wheel off the ground, try and rotate it, you should not be able to.

 

Repeat with the other front wheel.

I can rotate wheel when in gear but what could be the problem? I assumed that the diff was compensating and it was the lack of clutch to engine connection causing the drive problem

Alasdair

Try the other wheel and report back.

 

Just to reiterate as your answer was not clear, the other wheel must be on the ground.

Edited 12 November, 20241 yr by J.R.

Been working on it again. Reset gear linkage cables, Gear selector on gearbox seems to be clunking into place. Re bled new slave and raised one front wheel. In neutral its spins without any restriction or noise from gearbox. In first it has some resistance and sounds like gears are turning and engine is moving slightly on mounts but not trying to turn over. Same if I repeat with the other wheel  If my clutch has completely failed and slipping badly is this a sign or is it a gearbox problem?  Brain is so full of stuff can't think straight anymore.

Many thanks for the replies

Alasdair

I doubt that it will be the clutch but what you describe does sound more like it than diff or driveshaft failure, if you raise one wheel again and very cautiously try selecting a gear and then releasing the clutch if theraised  wheel starts turning without any graunching noises then it will be the clutch but pretty much unheard of, was it by any chance someone else driving the vehicle when the problem manifested? - a teenage son perhaps?

 

22 hours ago, Alasdair1 said:

Also remembered that if engine is running and no clutch pedal pressed it grates when trying to select reverse.

 

That is a good way to destroy the syncromesh on reverse gear, OK most cars never had it on reverse until recent years, yours does, it should not crunch but instead baulk in the conditions you describe but it is a very unwise thing to do.

21 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I doubt that it will be the clutch but what you describe does sound more like it than diff or driveshaft failure, if you raise one wheel again and very cautiously try selecting a gear and then releasing the clutch if theraised  wheel starts turning without any graunching noises then it will be the clutch but pretty much unheard of, was it by any chance someone else driving the vehicle when the problem manifested? - a teenage son perhaps?

 

 

That is a good way to destroy the syncromesh on reverse gear, OK most cars never had it on reverse until recent years, yours does, it should not crunch but instead baulk in the conditions you describe but it is a very unwise thing to do.

When I was trying reverse without the clutch it was very gentle. the minute I heard the gears grating I stopped moving the gear stick. It was just to check the gear selector on top of gearbox  was actually selecting/finding gears. It doesnt grate with the clutch pressed and seems to engage ok but no drive. After checking absolutely everything and replacing slave I think the clutch has either been contaminated with fluid but as i have nothing leaking under car  more probably the centre of the plate has parted company or something like that. As I seem to have exhausted every option I think its time to try and remove box and have a look. (not looking forward to it as I hve no ramp) Theres no other way of checking. Going to have a word with an old mechanic mate tomorrow to see what he says but it does look like a gearbox removal.

It was my teenage son who was driving but unlike most teenagers he is very good and doesnt abuse/thrash cars. He also stops and phones me if he hears or has any problems with the car. He said he changed down to pull into our road ,no noises and no previous slipping. Car just started reving without drive. If it is a clutch that has suddenly gone its as said very unusual and a new one on me but not impossible. Good thing is the cars in very good condition and everything underneath is corrosion free so should come apart fairly easily.

Many thanks

Alasdair

 

 

A long shot but something that could have gone awry when the wheel bearing was changed.

 

Remove the wheel centre cap from the side you replaced the bearing, with the car on its wheels and the engine running engage a gear, release clutch, get out and look at the driveshaft retaining bolt, if it is rotating then the driveshaft was not correctly engaged when the retaining bolt was tightened.

 

For that to be the case the driveshaft would be rotating which I would have expected you to have already noticed.

On 11/11/2024 at 16:51, Alasdair1 said:

 Changed wheel bearing and after driving for about 2 weeks drive went completely. 

 

 

I'd re check the work relating to/around the wheel bearing -it's the last thing done to it. 

 

With the car supported safely with front wheels in the air start and engage a gear - anything spinning including the driveshaft nuts at the end of the hubs? I have know incorrect fitment / striping of splines on a shaft (by me on a Ford years ago!). You might see drive shaft spinning but wheel not turning. If wheel turning apply brakes gently. The car in question for me was a Ford Zodiac where rear splines rounded as I hadn't torqued up enough and it came loose. I thought the clutch had gone but we suddenly realised propshaft was spinning -  Just a thought! Probably not but worth checking.

 

[EDIT] Just read post above - stereo!

 

 

 

  

Edited 12 November, 20241 yr by bigjohn

15 hours ago, J.R. said:

I doubt that it will be the clutch but what you describe does sound more like it than diff or driveshaft failure, if you raise one wheel again and very cautiously try selecting a gear and then releasing the clutch if theraised  wheel starts turning without any graunching noises then it will be the clutch but pretty much unheard of, was it by any chance someone else driving the vehicle when the problem manifested? - a teenage son perhaps?

 

 

That is a good way to destroy the syncromesh on reverse gear, OK most cars never had it on reverse until recent years, yours does, it should not crunch but instead baulk in the conditions you describe but it is a very unwise thing to do.

When I was trying reverse without the clutch it was very gentle. the minute I heard the gears grating I stopped moving the gear stick. It was just to check the gear selector on top of gearbox  was actually selecting/finding gears. It doesnt grate with the clutch pressed and seems to engage ok but no drive. After checking absolutely everything and replacing slave I think the clutch has either been contaminated with fluid but as i have nothing leaking under car  more probably the centre of the plate has parted company or something like that. As I seem to have exhausted every option I think its time to try and remove box and have a look. (not looking forward to it as I hve no ramp) Theres no other way of checking. Going to have a word with an old mechanic mate tomorrow to see what he says but it does look like a gearbox removal.

It was my teenage son who was driving but unlike most teenagers he is very good and doesnt abuse/thrash cars. He also stops and phones me if he hears or has any problems with the car. He said he changed down to pull into our road ,no noises and no previous slipping. Car just started reving without drive. If it is a clutch that has suddenly gone its as said very unusual and a new one on me but not impossible. Good thing is the cars in very good condition and everything underneath is corrosion free so should come apart fairly easily.

Many thanks

Alasdair

 

 

10 hours ago, bigjohn said:

 

I'd re check the work relating to/around the wheel bearing -it's the last thing done to it. 

 

With the car supported safely with front wheels in the air start and engage a gear - anything spinning including the driveshaft nuts at the end of the hubs? I have know incorrect fitment / striping of splines on a shaft (by me on a Ford years ago!). You might see drive shaft spinning but wheel not turning. If wheel turning apply brakes gently. The car in question for me was a Ford Zodiac where rear splines rounded as I hadn't torqued up enough and it came loose. I thought the clutch had gone but we suddenly realised propshaft was spinning -  Just a thought! Probably not but worth checking.

 

[EDIT] Just read post above - stereo!

 

 

 

  

Hi there , Did cross my mind but hub nut is tight and shaft spins in relation to wheels both sides when turning wheels by hand.  When in gear neither shaft spins with car on ground  with engine running. Car does seem to want to creep forward very slightly. Also raised car and held each shaft securely at gearbox flange ,turned wheels by hand with engine off and in neutral and they are both solid with no signs of movement. The car has done 70000 but is 06 and I reckon original clutch. 

24 minutes ago, Alasdair1 said:

Hi there , Did cross my mind but hub nut is tight and shaft spins in relation to wheels both sides when turning wheels by hand.  When in gear neither shaft spins with car on ground  with engine running. Car does seem to want to creep forward very slightly. Also raised car and held each shaft securely at gearbox flange ,turned wheels by hand with engine off and in neutral and they are both solid with no signs of movement. The car has done 70000 but is 06 and I reckon original clutch. 

Quick recap from this morning

Jacked up both sides and in neutral, both wheels turn by hand no real resistance from box and only the wheel you turn moves.

Jacked up both sides and in 1st gear turned one wheel by hand and the other goes in the opposite direction with slight resistance so reckon Diff working.

Jacked up both sides and started car in neutral no wheel movement on either side but in first gear both wheels rotate forward in the same direction but I can stop them by hand.

Reckon its the clutch thats failed suddenly. If its the original clutch its 19 years old so may be a corosion/age related problem. Who knows as said its a new one on me, so gearbox out unless anyone can think of anything else? At least the gearbox is fairly small. Hope it comes out without having to dismantle too much. 

Many thanks

Alasdair

24 minutes ago, Alasdair1 said:

Hi there , Did cross my mind but hub nut is tight and shaft spins in relation to wheels both sides when turning wheels by hand.  When in gear neither shaft spins with car on ground  with engine running. Car does seem to want to creep forward very slightly. Also raised car and held each shaft securely at gearbox flange ,turned wheels by hand with engine off and in neutral and they are both solid with no signs of movement. The car has done 70000 but is 06 and I reckon original clutch. 

Quick recap from this morning

Jacked up both sides and in neutral, both wheels turn by hand no real resistance from box and only the wheel you turn moves.

Jacked up both sides and in 1st gear turned one wheel by hand and the other goes in the opposite direction with slight resistance so reckon Diff working.

Jacked up both sides and started car in neutral no wheel movement on either side but in first gear both wheels rotate forward in the same direction but I can stop them by hand.

Reckon its the clutch thats failed suddenly. If its the original clutch its 19 years old so may be a corosion/age related problem. Who knows as said its a new one on me, so gearbox out unless anyone can think of anything else? At least the gearbox is fairly small. Hope it comes out without having to dismantle too much. 

Many thanks

Alasdair