Hi everyone,

 

Im looking to buy a "new" car in the next 2 months. I've decied I want a Superb ( 2018+ ), Combi, L&K and something around 50 000km - 80 000km ( 31 000mi - 50 000mi ).

 

I definitely want the strongest petrol engine there is, so it comes between those three versions

CJXA 206kW 350Nm ( 2015 - 2018 )
DNUA 200kW 350Nm ( 2018 - 2020 )
DNFE 206kW 400Nm ( 2020+ )

 

Sadly most of the cars coming up for sale with DNFE are over my budget slightly, therefore Im also considering DNUA ( even though it should have the worst feel from those three engines ) and CJXA.

 

Could anyone explain to me whats the difference between those three engines in more depth?

I know that DNFE should have a better turbo, and DNUA & DNFE should have particulate filter unlike CJXA.

I've also seen a post about the first three numbers being hardware identifiers, and the last one being ECU software identifier.

 

This engine ( either of them ) should be good for future upgrades and more power though, right? If so, what will have to be done and how much does it cost?

 

After the purchase I just want the car to be reliable and without any investments for lets say half a year, then I'll see if I want it to be stronger.

 

Any experience and advice is appreciated, thanks

The core of all 3 engines is the same I think, so I doubt there is any fundamental difference in reliability. The main difference in performance results from the different gearbox on the DNFE - 7 speed with 400nm limit, vs 6 speed with 350nm limit for the earlier ones. So although the max rpm power outputs are much the same, the mid-range on the later car is quite a bit better. This and the 7speed box gives 0.5 second better 0-100kph time, which is a big difference.

 

Downsides of the latest model is that the DSG mapping makes it very reluctant to change down until you really push the pedal, and then it is off like a shot. And the reliability of the DQ381 gearbox seems more questionable than for the DQ250 of the earlier models.

CJX is EA888 Gen 3.

DNU & DNF are EA888 Gen 4.

 

Both DNU & DNF have no MPI (multi point injection)

Both of them pair with 7sp DQ381 DSG, and have GPF.

 

While CJX, has both direct injection and mpi, pairs with 6sp DQ250 DSG, and works without GPF.

Thanks, great information from both of you guys.

 

From what Ive gathered, DNF also has Continental turbocharger ( with wider intake ), while CJX and DNU have IHI IS38.

 

I dont really know whats the difference in dynamics of the engine with and without MPI. But Ive also read that DNU had maximum pressure of 250bar on injectors, while DNF upgraded to 350bar maximum pressure.

 

However, do you have some kind of advice in terms of choosing the right engine? What would you pick from those three?

Edited 24 December, 20241 yr by kukumen

39 minutes ago, kukumen said:

Thanks, great information from both of you guys.

 

From what Ive gathered, DNF also has Continental turbocharger ( with wider intake ), while CJX and DNU have IHI IS38.

 

I dont really know whats the difference in dynamics of the engine with and without MPI. But Ive also read that DNU had maximum pressure of 250bar on injectors, while DNF upgraded to 350bar maximum pressure.

 

However, do you have some kind of advice in terms of choosing the right engine? What would you pick from those three?

Sorry, earlier I said the DNUA was 6 speed but of course it’s 7 speed.

 

Perhaps there is a bit of confusion about what you mean by “strongest” engine. I took it to mean “most robust”, but perhaps you mean “with the most power”?

 

Anyway all the engines are very good. Well, I have owned the CJXA and the DNF and they are both very good. For me it is not just about the engine, it is about the whole car. The 2016 model had a sluggish throttle response, but that was easily fixed with a pedal box. The throttle response on the DNF is better and doesn’t really need a pedal box, but the gearbox mapping is very sluggish which rather spoils the drive. Not so easy to fix - a gearbox remap would be needed. Or of course to drive it in manual mode. But then the 7 speed is much more economical on the motorway, due to lower rpm.

 

Both my cars were L&K with DCC. The old one remembered the drive mode setting, I used “custom” to keep everything normal except DCC which was Sport. The new car reverts to “Normal”  so I have to make 3 presses on the button to set “Custom” after every start, which is annoying.

 

New car has heated steering wheel - great. But satnav is worse (I use Waze anyway). Kessy on all 4 doors. Virtual cockpit is nice. Lane assist on new one is terrible unless you have Travel Assist. Predictive ACC is a waste of time. New car has coasting in Normal drive mode, which I dislike. It can easily be turned off with VCDS fortunately.

 

 

Yea I meant the engine "with most power". So it just has to be one of those three I mentioned. I really just want something spacious, reliable, good looking and fun to drive when wanted.

 

Since I really want ventilated seats, I wanna go with L&K, which should also automatically include DCC, which I also want. I dont say I wouldnt go for a Style with DCC & Canton & Ventilated seats, but L&K is L&K.

 

Thanks a lot for your in depth review, I will definitely use it in deciding which one to go for.

 

However, Ive never heard of Pedal box, Ive looked it up and it seems very useful.

 

In a nutsheel it seems to me though, that you liked CJX more than DNF, and with that also pre-facelift version vs post-facelift. I dont really need a facelift version, virtual cockpit isnt a must I kinda dont like it anyway.

 

Maybe I should settle for CJX from 2018 and pay more for the condition of the car itself ( I also always use a mechanic, I always want a full service history and I always check the VIN for accidents and other stuff )?

Engines good.  DQ381,s more and more being flagged as 'The Weakest link'.   It really is buyer beware.  Be sure if a warranty, a valid one.  Too many getting landed now with silly bills. 

36 minutes ago, kukumen said:

Yea I meant the engine "with most power". So it just has to be one of those three I mentioned. I really just want something spacious, reliable, good looking and fun to drive when wanted.

 

Since I really want ventilated seats, I wanna go with L&K, which should also automatically include DCC, which I also want. I dont say I wouldnt go for a Style with DCC & Canton & Ventilated seats, but L&K is L&K.

 

Thanks a lot for your in depth review, I will definitely use it in deciding which one to go for.

 

However, Ive never heard of Pedal box, Ive looked it up and it seems very useful.

 

In a nutsheel it seems to me though, that you liked CJX more than DNF, and with that also pre-facelift version vs post-facelift. I dont really need a facelift version, virtual cockpit isnt a must I kinda dont like it anyway.

 

Maybe I should settle for CJX from 2018 and pay more for the condition of the car itself ( I also always use a mechanic, I always want a full service history and I always check the VIN for accidents and other stuff )?

There are a lot of pros and cons for each. I do prefer the new car because it is faster and more economical, but it does have its irritations. The satnav is particularly bad, taking ages to boot up and it thinks everywhere in the uk is in Deutschland. But as I said, I use Waze with apple carplay so actually it doesn’t matter.

 

Things that are better with the 2023 model:

More torque and 7 speed box

Much better motorway economy 

throttle mapping is better

DSG sports mode is less rev-happy

led matrix headlights are great
ventilated seats

Auxiliary electric heater (car warms up really quickly in winter)

heated steering wheel

washer for the reversing camera

ACC stays armed longer in start/stop traffic

warning lights for blind spot monitoring better placed and brighter

Remote locking/unlocking via the app, honk and flash to find your car etc (but you have to pay to subscribe)

Virtual cockpit is nice but as you say, by no means essential.

 

Things that are worse with the 2023 model:

DSG very reluctant to change down eg exiting bends

drive mode defaults to normal on each start

Satnav is poor

Apple carplay volume is much lower than radio volume

No knobs on the infotainment screen (old one had mechanical volume and select/zoom knobs)

 

So overall I prefer the new one, it is just a bit spoilt by the DSG mapping. And L&K for both really makes them “Grand Tourers”.

 

As far as “full service history” is concerned, there really isn’t a lot to service that is important, beyond engine oil and filter - and this is the easiest car to self-service I’ve ever owned, certainly to change the engine oil anyway. Haldex oil at 3 years and DSG oil at 40k miles. DQ381 DSG is nominally 80k miles but I think I will do mine sooner.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 December, 20241 yr by nicknorman

I changed from a 2016 diesel 190 to a 2023 TSI 190 in October this year and I'd agree with all of the things in the above list that are better, though I'd add a couple of minor improvements that are useful but not essential:-

• Memory buttons for the passenger seat.  SWMBO doesn't drive and she likes the seat as far back as it goes and the backrest reclined more than most people like, so there's not much room behind her (even in the Superb!) on the rare occasions that there's someone sitting behind her, so she has to move her seat and she always has trouble when finding her favourite position again.  It also saves me from some grief if I move her seat when cleaning the car.
• Keyless entry for the rear doors.  I often want to put my coat on the back seat before I drive off, so it saves me having to touch the front door first to open the back door.

On things that are worse, I haven't noticed any problem with DSG being very reluctant to change down, I don't use Apple Carplay and I haven't used satnav yet, so I can't comment about it.

I have a 272 4x4 sportline 2019 gpf car with the 7speed dq381.  Came up from a diesel with the dq250. 
It’s smooth and really well rounded car. Gearbox does need a map yes so I had the TVS stage 2+ map put on it. It’s a world of difference and includes a life extender feature 
it’s also running 380hp 560nm torque and has 125000miles on without engine or gearbox fault. So don’t worry about the gearbox reliability. Change the engine oil every 10k, DSG oil every 40k and haldex every 10k. I do the plugs every 20k too but only because of the map to be fair..

Racingline's OEM+ remap for the Gen4 (DNFE for this topic) gets the same results no matter what the stock output is; that's going from all the 280bhp - 320bhp variants across the VAG range (I've seen reference to DNFC and DNFG but don't have a definitive list). Which can only mean to me that the hardware is all the same, its all down to the software which Racingline then standardises with the remap. Which will also code Stop-Start to automatically off. 

I would have gone with TVS' DSG remap but went with RL's version - it was a fraction of the cost with the ECU remap; it won't be as good but they up the clamping pressure on the clutch to combat risk of clutch-slip on the higher torque and change shift points to be more sensible.

Very nice stuff in this topic, kudos to all, this is golden stuff!

I agree with all the above specially the letargic DSG mapping ... I was led to believe it was the throttle, but after the 'linear response' coding, it got much much better. The DSG response time is the problem. TVS has a dealer in my country so I think sometime in the spring a remap might be in order .... engine might as well 😁

TVS do a deal for an engine remap with the gearbox one as well…but make sure you have a good chat with them about which car you have. Even knowing it’s a 2021 car they could only come up with 272 version DNUA engine (EA888 Gen 3) rather than my DNFE 280 Gen 4 engine.

Thanks for the heads' up! I will keep in mind when the time comes 😉

On 24/12/2024 at 08:03, nicknorman said:

This and the 7speed box gives 0.5 second better 0-100kph time, which is a big difference.

🤣

On 24/12/2024 at 08:14, JR RS said:

CJX is EA888 Gen 3.

DNU & DNF are EA888 Gen 4.

 

Both DNU & DNF have no MPI (multi point injection)

Both of them pair with 7sp DQ381 DSG, and have GPF.

 

While CJX, has both direct injection and mpi, pairs with 6sp DQ250 DSG, and works without GPF.

Just re-reading this. I think DNUA is still Gen3.

 

Edit - just found this nugget from @newbie69 in 2019 when the DNUA was around - new engine code signified the addition of the GPFs rather than move to the next genaration of it.

 

 

Whenever I was searching for anything on websites, they would only ever come up with 272bhp; all referring to IHI IS38 turbo rather than the Continental one on the DNFE.

 

The only way I could be sure to search for some stuff for DNFE to make sure it was the Gen4 was to search for VW Golf Mk8 and get the DNFC and at least the parts would be the same. This also supports Racingline's remap stated figures which is that their OEM+ quotes 400bhp for all Gen4 engine irrespective of standard output (280/300/310/320). If only the map is different, that's the bit they overwrite with their map.

 

Edited 9 January, 20251 yr by travs