Wouldn't happen to be the Cubit' date=' manufactured by Hoojum? Very nice looking, but kind of pricey for cases... :Yikes:

And the embedded processor boards would indeed be one of the EPIA Mini-ITX boards I've been going on about since the start...

Rob.

Yup - was a cubit. Shiny Aluminium case - which they picked because it was going to be on display, so they didn't want a plain beige box!

AFAIK it was an EPIA board too

I wouldn't mind a very simple system like that - HD only - to sit by the TV and get used to play MP3s or do a spot of web surfing. Maybe a future project, although I may need a new A/V Amp first, as i've run out of inputs

I wouldn't mind a very simple system like that - HD only - to sit by the TV and get used to play MP3s or do a spot of web surfing. Maybe a future project, although I may need a new A/V Amp first, as i've run out of inputs

I'm looking at doing something similar - basically a webstation, so can get away with a 533MHz EPIA board, 128Mb RAM, an old 6Gb hard disk and a power supply. Just have to contemplate now as to whether I bother buying a case too, or find some way of concealing the components in a living-room themed way...

Rob.

I'm looking at doing something similar - basically a webstation' date=' so can get away with a 533MHz EPIA board, 128Mb RAM, an old 6Gb hard disk and a power supply. Just have to contemplate now as to whether I bother buying a case too, or find some way of concealing the components in a living-room themed way...

Rob.[/quote']I've also seen an article in one of the mags (PCW?) that had a compact flash based system - running Linux IIRC. That would be low power...

Interesting place: http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=28

Here's a thread about the M10000 board, with several people complaining about the TV-out and video-overlay quality.

http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4941

Would it be solved by simply using the TV-out on the PVR card? And still don't get why you need a separate ATi or nVIDIA video card anyway (n00b alert again!)...

On the same forum I've read about heatsinks and quiet fans that could make an AMD setup be as quiet as 20 dB. Anything in that?

Here's a thread about the M10000 board' date=' with several people complaining about the TV-out and video-overlay quality.

[/quote']

The trouble is, it's all kind of subjective - indeed, one person asked "just how bad is it - is it any worse than normal TV", to which the reply was "it's worse than TV normally is"...so, about the same length as a piece of string...

I've used one myself as a DVD player...it's as good as my DVD player, which is by no means a budget one, and on a 28" CRT widescreen TV. Probably more expensive equipment would show up it's faults, but that would go for anything...

On the same forum I've read about heatsinks and quiet fans that could make an AMD setup be as quiet as 20 dB. Anything in that?

Yes...the only problem with that would be fitting in a small case - even Shuttle cases are bigger than most EPIA ones...

Rob.

Oh, but the Shuttle case would fit where I want to put it, as long as its height doesn't exceed 240 mm. But I don't think the Zalman AGP cooler would fit as well...

I agree it will be all down to demos for both noise and playback quality - trouble is, I've yet to find a shop that not just sells both options but has a pair of demo systems lying around too. :(

I guess this means diving deep down into the Dutch tweaker scene and get invited for coffee in some kind people's homes... Oh, why don't I just take the off-the-shelf home-entertainment box?

I guess this means diving deep down into the Dutch tweaker scene and get invited for coffee in some kind people's homes... Oh, why don't I just take the off-the-shelf home-entertainment box?

Wel, if you're going down that road...

Get a normal silent PSU (large fan, slow spin speed). Buy a 1GHz EPIA, remove the fan. Connect the existing heat sink via some strips of highly conductive metal (silver if you want to be flash, copper if you're not that rich ) to a central heating radiator. Make some nice case for it, bit of walnut veneer on it, etc. Will be silent...

Rob.

Oh, but the Shuttle case would fit where I want to put it, as long as its height doesn't exceed 240 mm. But I don't think the Zalman AGP cooler would fit as well...

The Shuttles (At least my SK41G does) have "Heatpipe" technology which takes the heat straight to the back of the case. The only fan inside the case is the PSU fan and a graphics card fan - depending on the card - and even then the PSU fan is only loud when it's booting up, its much quiter when the PC is past thew post-screen.

My Shuttle is currently wireless, and connected to the LCD TV in the lounge and I'm very impressed with it. I've also got some software called myHTPC installed which is the same as XP Media Centre but it's an open-source application, so there's loads of add-on modules and extras available for it.

My HTPC: http://myhtpc.net/

Am indeed looking at myHTPC as a WMCE replacement. And as width isn't a consideration when it comes to size I'm also looking at this case:

http://www.ahanix.com/dvine3.html

Bit pricey, but allows you to go full ATX and put a good SB PCI card in as well for sound, next to the PVR350. A Silent PSU and a Zalman CPU cooler could render the thing completely quiet - I finally managed to trace a countryman who had the exact same wish list as I did and built his HTPC around a D.Vine case. He guarantees that ATM the PSU is all he can hear whisper when the room is quiet, but that will change once he's put a ProSilence PSU in. As for AGP fan cooling, MSI have a fanless GeForce4 card which seems to do the job properly.

So still exploring my options...

For ATX cases, http://www.lmp-pc.co.uk/ are worth a look too.

I hope I'm okay to post links to other forums in here, but there's a HTPC forum over at This address that often has some good congifuration info.

put a good SB PCI card in as well for sound

If it were me, I'd go for a motherboard with onboard sound, as the processors used are often the same, and considering the "acoustically hostile" nature of a PC there's not a whole lot of point spending more on the sound card...

Rob.

'Why can't a PC simply turn on like a TV?' It is the question that has

been bugging people who use multimedia PCs as the heart of their home

entertainment systems. When they want to watch TV, play a DVD, listen to

internet radio or play CDs and MP3s, they have to spend fruitless minutes

watching the Windows egg timer while the PC boots up.

Not any more. In a direct challenge to PCs running Microsoft's Windows XP

Media Center, InterVideo of California last week launched the InstantOn

PC. The technology allows all a PC's entertainment functions to be run on

a pared-down version of Linux, called LinDVD. Rather than sitting on a

hard drive, LinDVD is small enough to be held in a read-only memory chip

and boots in 10 seconds flat.

InterVideo developed the technology in collaboration with Intel, IBM and

Sony. Its system lets LinDVD and Windows coexist in the same computer,

running on a Pentium 4 processor and a minimum of 128 megabytes of RAM.

But if the user wants to do some work, they use a remote control to switch

off the LinDVD software and the PC re-boots to run Windows.

New Scientist - January 14, 2004

http://infonomics.nl/ref.php?nid=1593

BTW, I've decided to wait another year and see how the HTPC scene develops. ATM, it's either the less-than-perfect system at a reasonable price or the perfect system at a cost. I found that most HTPC technologies are in its infancy but manufacturers are picking up on the idea, so I expect developments to go very quickly from now.

As I'm neither the DIY type nor an early adopter (never been one, never will) I will let these developments pan out and see what they bring me in 2005.

Could we have a glossary for this thread please?

Nick (home entertainment dunce :dunce: )

Could we have a glossary for this thread please?

Sure...

ATM = At The Moment.

DIY = Do It Yourself.

BTW = By The Way.

Anything else you need to know? :p

Rob.

Yeah:

PVR

Shuttle

ATI A-I-W

Flex ATX

EPIA

HTPC

webstation

That'll do for starters. It's like Greek this stuff!! And I thought I knew something about PCs ....

PVR - Personal Video Recorder

Shuttle - Brand name of a mini PC

ATI A-I-W - ATI All-In-Wonder, type of graphics card which does grpahics, TV and capture video

Flex ATX - Motherboard form factor, smaller than ATX, larger than ITX

EPIA - Motherboard made by VIA (in mini-ITX form factor)

HTPC - Home Theatre PC

webstation - uhm... never heared of that one

Q.

So is using a multimedia pc pretty common now in the living room? I must admit this thread is the first place I've seen anyone talk seriously about it. I'd heard of things like Tivo (I assume PVR means something like this) but that's a black box. How do you drive such a PC - do you have to be forever playing with a mouse and keyboard? Do you have to have two monitors? Where do you put it? ..... etc. etc. etc.

I'd heard of ATX but didn't realise even smaller form factors existed outside specialist production areas, i.e. available to buy on the consumer market. How small are these things then?

I've been looking at the wireless devices that are emerging now, which link your TV to you computer stashed somewhere else in the house. One of the reasons I went to 802.11g was that I could have audio, video and pictures stored on my PC/server in the study and then access them on my TV/hi-fi downstairs over the wireless network. The only boxess I have seen so far are 802.11b, but I'm sure the 54Mbps ones won't be far behind.

OK, so I won't get PVR facilities. But I have a video recorder (actually, two) for that.

What I will get is my entire music collection available (eventually) to be played thru my hi-fi (OK, well actually not that hi-fi but good enough for me) using the TV as a selection device. Then I can shove all my CDs away in a cupboard somewhere. And video if I want it, as well as all of the pictures from my digital camera. And all for probably about

I'd heard of ATX but didn't realise even smaller form factors existed outside specialist production areas, i.e. available to buy on the consumer market. How small are these things then?

Very small. In fact, so small I decided to take some pictures.

A webstation is much the same principle as a thin client - you don't need a lot of power to browse the net, nor a huge amount of storage, graphics power, etc.

Mine runs a 533MHz passively cooled processor and a 6.4Gb hard disk, and is currently residing in an empty **** toiletries box:

The inside looks like this:

And to give you an idea of perspective I put a CD case on top of it:

The board itself is silent, as the power supply is a standard ATX one with a "silent" fan - so you do get a whisper which you can't hear with either TV or hi-fi on...here it is in it's current position:

And yes, I am writing this post on it, so it does work!

Rob.

Did I hear "Shuttle" mentioned..? Here, have a photo:

(Again with a DVD case for perspective)

The little 'dongle' plugged in the front is a wireless LAN adapter. Its got a wireless PCI card in the back to stream any music, but I was trying to figure out the configuration of the USB one for the laptop

What I will get is my entire music collection available (eventually) to be played thru my hi-fi (OK, well actually not that hi-fi but good enough for me) using the TV as a selection device.

Have you seen the "SliMP3" player at www.slimdevices.com, Fen? A small unit with an on-board LCD display, which allows for slecting MP3's/Playlists to be selected and streamed from your PC via either a wireless/wired network. Its got a remote control to choose tracks too.

Have you seen the "SliMP3" player at www.slimdevices.com, Fen? A small unit with an on-board LCD display, which allows for slecting MP3's/Playlists to be selected and streamed from your PC via either a wireless/wired network. Its got a remote control to choose tracks too.

I have one of those. Very neat, and works brilliantly.

I've been looking at the wireless devices that are emerging now' date=' which link your TV to you computer stashed somewhere else in the house. One of the reasons I went to 802.11g was that I could have audio, video and pictures stored on my PC/server in the study and then access them on my TV/hi-fi downstairs over the wireless network. The only boxess I have seen so far are 802.11b, but I'm sure the 54Mbps ones won't be far behind.

[/quote']

You can already use Pinnacle ShowCenter for that. It doesn't have built-in wireless but a free PCMCIA slot, so you can put a g card in it.

Connect it up to your hi-fi and TV and it will allow you to stream music and videos from the upstairs PC. If you have cable upstairs, you could put a PVR card in the upstairs and do your video recording there.

I've looked at this too (it's the easy solution) but my wireless network is b right now - really too slow for streaming - and it would involve some damage to floors and ceilings to get cable wired to the attic PC. So lots of additional cost and bother and Mrs D4x4 would like to be able to program her video recording herself - and she is terrible at PCs. How terrible can she be? Imagine terrible, and then double that...

So is using a multimedia pc pretty common now in the living room? I must admit this thread is the first place I've seen anyone talk seriously about it.

Nick, no, it isn't very common yet. Home entertainment manufacturers still haven't picked up on the idea, and the PC world is only slowly coming out with pre-packaged, user-friendly machines. I'd say it's still pretty much in its infancy but I expect 2004 to be the breakthrough year for the HTPC. So there's a very obvious reason why this was the first place you saw anyone talk seriously about it - unless you are already part of the tweaking scene...

How do you drive such a PC - do you have to be forever playing with a mouse and keyboard? Do you have to have two monitors? Where do you put it? ..... etc. etc. etc.

My ideas are gathering around a quiet PC box with Hi-fi set looks, with power-off facilities for (at least) CD and radio playback (but preferably DVD too), connected to the wireless home network, an LCD TV and some speakers. It would have a simple remote-control operated environment (like myHTPC) running on top of Windows, switchable to normal Windows operation using a cordless keyboard and mouse. A PCI PVR card would replace the analogue VCR and TV/radio tuner, a DVD rewriter would replace the CD player and DVD player and would be able to burn the best recorded programmes on DVD-R in order to keep the harddisk empty enough.

All of the above components are already available - as discussed extensively in this thread - but you still need a bit of a DIY attitude to make it all work together seamlessly.

How's that for a summary?

I have one of those. Very neat, and works brilliantly.

The new wireless "Squeezebox" one, or the original SliMP3 Player?

I can't decide which one I like... :scratchch