Morning all. Went to start the car this morning and lots of dash lights came on and a horrible noise from under the bonnet, as you can hear in the video. After three or four attempts at starting everything is dead, no warning lights, no sidelights and I'm not going to risk locking and unlocking as the tailgate has locked itself. As you can see in the video I tried connecting a jumper "battery" but now find that this one from Lidl doesn't hold it's charge as well as my father-in-law's Noco one, so it's now on charge - pay cheap pay twice?). A cheapo battery meter is now showing just over 7 volts. The battery is a Bosch fitted in September 2022 with a four year warranty (so just six months out of warranty). There's been almost no warning although I mentioned to my wife the last couple of mornings that it seemed a bit sluggish starting but was fine for the rest of the day. It gets at least two 5 mile runs every day.

I'm hoping it's just the battery given up rather early (I'd rather buy a new one than take a chance on getting this one back functional - at least this time it's let me down in my own drive) but decided it's worth asking for any thoughts here before I rush into anything, not least whether the battery failing like this could be a symptom of other problems. It's as well to be prepared for the worst.

(This could be the day I regret not buying a battery charger "just in case").

When you do get it started, check the battery voltage (engine running) should be ~ 14V, certainly > than say 13.5V while idling.

Sudden battery failure is a frequent occurrence when the battery reaches end of life - especially if it has been giving some indications of weakness lately. Often happens with a sudden drop in temperature.

Regular 5-mile trips are almost certainly not sufficient to maintain battery charge.

Are you certain nothing was left switched on?

At 2013, this vehicle is presumably not auto stop-start - is that correct?

That's right, it's the Classic Yeti so it's not stop/start. I've just been out to the car and after about an hour the battery has recovered to 8.8v and the dash lights came on and the tailgate unlocked - then I decided not to push my luck. I will check the voltage when I can get it started as Johngerard suggests. I've been doing the same pattern of driving, mainly 5 mile each way trips and an occasional longer run a couple of times a month (but still around 40 miles round trip) for several years now since retiring without any problems but a charger seems a sensible investment - things are fine until suddenly they aren't. I don't want anything to clever and I'm thinking about one of these https://www.toolstation.com/ring-smart-battery-charger-maintainer/pAF045 The blurb says it is compatible with lead-acid, gel, calcium, EFB, AGM and lithium-ion batteries" and it's weather proof so I can leave it hanging in the car port when needed.

Thank you both for your quick and helpful responses.

5 miles each way should be more than adequate to keep the battery charged IMO, we have a > 7 year old Polo (stop/start) and average ~ 6/7miles per day, the key is the daily driving, all modern alternators can (for years now) supply all reasonable electrical loads even while idling and still charge the battery, my normal test for years is to have the dipped beams, heated rear screen and fan on position 2, on, and the voltage was/is around 13.6V.

17 minutes ago, Paul52 said:

That's right, it's the Classic Yeti so it's not stop/start. I've just been out to the car and after about an hour the battery has recovered to 8.8v and the dash lights came on and the tailgate unlocked - then I decided not to push my luck. I will check the voltage when I can get it started as Johngerard suggests. I've been doing the same pattern of driving, mainly 5 mile each way trips and an occasional longer run a couple of times a month (but still around 40 miles round trip) for several years now since retiring without any problems but a charger seems a sensible investment - things are fine until suddenly they aren't. I don't want anything to clever and I'm thinking about one of these https://www.toolstation.com/ring-smart-battery-charger-maintainer/pAF045 The blurb says it is compatible with lead-acid, gel, calcium, EFB, AGM and lithium-ion batteries" and it's weather proof so I can leave it hanging in the car port when needed.

Thank you both for your quick and helpful responses.

That charger should be fine for your use, I use a larger Ring RSC608 for my Octavia.

Very possible that your battery will not recover much after such a deep discharge.

Edited 29 March29 Mar by Warrior193
grammar

If the Alternator "test" is OK, then looks like a failed battery to me but hopefully not.

Have you used a multimeter when the engine's running to see what the voltage is/ goes up to?

For what it's worth, my hardly used Subaru Impreza's battery lasted for 12 years using a C-Tek (MXS?) charger. When the battery got to the point of finally dropping off a cliff, it started ok, but then had a bouncing throttle (up to 4000rpm when crawling in traffic!) Plus weird noises.

I vote for Varta + C-Tek

Thank you everyone for your help and advice, it's much appreciated. I'm responsible for running a 93 year old father-in-law to medical appointments etc. and have an elderly dog that's keeping the vet in a lifestyle I'd have if I didn't have said elderly dog. I take Warrior 193's point that even if I can get a decent charge in the battery it might only be a short term solution so taking all that into account, and the fact I've had four years out of the battery, I'm going to take the advice that I've offered people on this forum over the years - that in the cost of running a car replacing a battery possibly a bit prematurely isn't a bad thing and it does mean at least if a problem persists it is something that can be crossed off the list.

Again, thank you for your help and advice; and on a Sunday.

Quick update. I've left the engine running for an hour or so and my cheapo meter is showing 14.0 volts. (I'm not competent to be let lose with a multimeter but this is probably a reasonable approximation of what is going on). I've not moved it yet but everything seems to be functioning but I've got three warning lights on - tyre pressure, traction control and ABS. I seem to recall a selection of warning lights is normal after a battery is disconnected and reconnected and these switch themselves off after a few hundred metres so I'm not panicking yet. I'm waiting to collect a Yuasa HSB027 which is recommended for the Yeti and has lots of good reviews. Just a little concerned the width is listed as 129mm which is a lot narrower than the current Bosch 170 but it's not unusual for a web-site to get the dimensions wrong and any problems fitting (I can just about manage that and I don't have the problems of stop/start and coding, I think) and it will go back. Ah, it's a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon.....

While its idling switch on the dipped or main beams, then check battery volts, if OKish switch on heated rear screen and check again, then finally, put fan speed to 2 and check voltage again.

You have been misinformed of dimensions of Yuasa HSB027, see Halfords website - it says - Dimensions (LxDxH): 242x175x190mm.

As for the original issues - yes if the battery has been as low as 8.8 volts or even less it is very likely cream--crackered so you are wise to invest in a new one.

However you MUST then check that you have a charging voltage of over 14 volts when engine running so that you know the alternator and charging circuit are working because if they are not then this would have caused the battery to fail -and will kill the new battery before long.

Finally - the Charger you mention from Toolstation will be suitable, but if everything on the car is functioning correctly you probably won't need it (doesn't hurt to have one as "insurance" though !

OK, at the risk of "we told you so" I ordered a Yuasa battery from.... Halfords. They even gave me £5 off. I had a confirmation of order text and email telling me not to come to the store until the order had been processed. Twenty minutes later I had another text and email to tell me it was ready for collection. All good so far. Having got the car started I can't risk turning off the engine so my wife comes with me to sit in the car with the engine running whilst I collect the battery to fit when I get home. The assistant asks for my name and the order number. Enters this on the computer, checks the three cupboards behind him, rechecks my name and order number, disappears out the back, comes back, consults a colleague before checking my name and order number for the third time. Then I'm told the order has been cancelled, by Halfords! He tells me they tried to phone me but there was no reply. I advised him I have been sat alongside my phone because, not unsurprisingly, I was anxious to collect the battery asap because the store would close at 5pm. The next explanation was that they must have the wrong phone number for me, so we check and, sure enough, the number they "called me on without my answering" is the correct number - the number they have been sending the text messages to. So I pull up my call log and, mystery of mysteries, I've not had any calls today, let alone one from Halfords and definitely not since the text to collect the order.

Now there are two theories here. Theory one is that dark forces are at play malignantly trying to stop me buying a new battery for my car, possibly as part of some wider plot to overturn western civilisation as we know it.

Theory two is that Halfords cancelled the order by mistake and decided to make it the customer's fault, forgetting that with modern technology their blatant dishonesty is easily proved.

Thank you Halfords for a wasted Sunday afternoon but on the positive side some more competent business will get my order.

And to add insult to injury, the cost of the battery is showing on my credit card but not the refund. Hands up all those that are surprised by that. No one?

No malignant dark forces at work here, just a normal case of "Murphy's Law", sometimes attributed to "Henry J. Sodd", which clearly states "Anything that can go wrong ......WILL !!

It happened on Sunday ! only Halfords is open ! Someone at your local Halfords is completely incompetent ! They have the battery in stock (or not! ) ! someone hit the wrong key ! someone else tried to cover it up !

Did they at any point actually check whether it was on the shelf ?

You have my sympathy - this is a very frustrating situation.

It's another day tomorrow - hope it goes better for you.

P.S. In my experience credit card refunds usually take 2 or 3 days to appear on the account.

Tayna prices might impress you, for maybe a Bosch, with next day delivery - if that is an option now that you have a charger to try to make it just about useable for a day or two.

As part of my maintenance strategy for my 2021 Golf I have put in place a 4 yearly battery change (rapidly declined in battery performance after 4 years) the mk8 Golf has a lot of quiescent current (off state drain). As stated above Tayna batteries are reasonable cost and it's another form of insurance to minimise problems

Thanks for all the additional thoughts and information. I will run through Johngerard's checks tomorrow. After my pointless trip to Halfords (two or three miles return) I turned the engine off and it restarted without a problem. But it was hot (from idling for about 90 minutes) so it will be interesting tomorrow morning. I have two booster packs charging here now, pessimist that I am. And thank you for drawing my attention to Tayna, several options there. And finally benefiting from a local government pension so I have a comfortable and reliable income Crucian's four year regime of battery changing does have some appeal. I'll now wish you all good night.

8 hours ago, Paul52 said:

https://www.toolstation.com/ring-smart-battery-charger-maintainer/pAF045

6-amp fine, 4-amp, or lower, possibly better for general use. - https://shop.ringautomotive.com/rsc904-4a-smart-battery-charger-maintainer.html

Even if you can afford it changing the battery every 4 years for your car and use is a waste of money and resources, just use an appropriate battery charger maintainer following the instructions in the car's 'Owner's Manual' and instructions for the charger maintainer.

As you have got the battery to such a low state of charge that it can't start the engine it will take very many hours to recharge (with an appropriate charger as above, the oner hour engine running might or might not be sufficient). Even if you fit a new battery you will still be best to but an appropriate charger maintainer and use it proactively (preventative charging, perhaps always as a maintainer). A new battery is just an energy store and can be emptied, though it should recover more and more quickly than an older worn battery. Think of it this way, your local government pension could be good and certainly when you first got it but then you might start spending it more on gambling and loose women and severely deplete it and it might become insufficient to fully cover you want and needs.

Ring RSC804 (previous model) being used preventatively on my wife's 2015 stop/start Fabia, with replaced AGM battery, overnight on a very cold (IIRC -4c) winter's night next early morning ready for the 2-miles journey to work (a number of years ago, I forget).

"You might start spending it more on gambling and loose women". Nigel, I thought we had agreed we weren't going to mention this on the forum? There are some loose lips here and we really don't want our other halves to question whether on Friday nights we are really at bible study together. I had a hard time convincing my wife that it's normal practice to use Pinot Noir as a stand in for Communion wine and that donations to BetFred on the credit card are charitable donations to help Betty and Frederick with their living costs; foreign holidays, maintaining the Mercedes etc.

(Hopefully I'm not offending anyone - I still recall Bob's exit from the forum some years back for his misunderstanding of political correctness. Although on this forum the M word might be the problem).

A common misconception to think of a secondary battery as 'an energy store' - it is more accurate to think of them as being a generator of DC current using a reversable chemical process.

I've missed something here, which is the secondary battery do you mean these jump starter things that are another fashionable consumerist item that most people don't (or perhaps shouldn't) need?

Battery chemistry has always been a mystery to me, my battery has a apparent internal resistance of 8 mohms, 0.008 ohms ( a new battery might be as low as ~ 2 mohms?) and a standstill voltage of 12.5V, yet when charging at say 13.5V only takes few amps, the net difference in charging volts is 13.5-12.5, 1.0V, at least at the commencement of charging but the current flow simplistically should be a massive, (I=V/R), 1.0/0.008, 125A??, so what prevents this, do the two voltages more or less equalize instantly and the tiny remainder do the chemistry??.

Edited 30 March30 Mar by Johngerard

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

I've missed something here, which is the secondary battery do you mean these jump starter things that are another fashionable consumerist item that most people don't (or perhaps shouldn't) need?

A secondary battery (E.g L.A, NiCad, LiPo etc ) is one that can be recharged by reversing the chemical process - as opposed to a Primary battery ('dry' cell) where the process is non-reversable.

Edited 30 March30 Mar by Warrior193
clarification

1 hour ago, Johngerard said:

Battery chemistry has always been a mystery to me, my battery has a apparent internal resistance of 8 mohms, 0.008 ohms ( a new battery might be as low as ~ 2 mohms?) and a standstill voltage of 12.5V, yet when charging at say 13.5V only takes few amps, the net difference in charging volts is 13.5-12.5, 1.0V, at least at the commencement of charging but the current flow simplistically should be a massive, (I=V/R), 1.0/0.008, 125A??, so what prevents this, do the two voltages more or less equalize instantly and the tiny remainder do the chemistry??.

Back EMF of the cell is what is limiting the charge rate - even a fully discharged L.A battery has a voltage of around 11.0 volts.

Increased internal resistance is one of the enemies of secondary cells as it limits the available current in both directions - the other main problem is hard sulfation which reduces available reactive plate material and is caused by persistent low SOC. IMO this is where there may be an issue with the BCM limiting the alternator charging to around 75% in micro-hybrids (stop/start)

Edited 30 March30 Mar by Warrior193
correction