Who said anything about underrevving?

Chris

Chris have your ROSPA yet? Thinking of doing it after the wedding so might be able to start in the May course I think. Ordered a Raodcraft book anyway (yes I know you get a free one when you join) to read up on.

If your car has a "Z" logo on the boot then it may break before you'd resonably expect it to

Should of bought a skoda. You know at your next service you have to replace parts

Ordered a Raodcraft book anyway (yes I know you get a free one when you join) to read up on.

You don't get Roadcraft when you join (at least not in my group) so you haven't wasted any money. I'd also recommend the accompanying DVD too as it shows some techniques that weren't clear to me in the book

Chris

Why I use gears to slow down:

Brake dust on my nice clean alloys

If driving miss daisy then, use the brakes, less of a pain and saves the old clutch but if pressing on a bit gear down through the gears for sure, car is easier to control and set up for a corner.

If the gearbox can stand the engine pulling the car, it should be able to stand the car pushing the engine - in fact more than. I'm sure we've all heard of people breaking gearboxes by shoving too much power through them with the engine - who's actually heard of someone breaking a gearbox by engine braking?

Chris have your ROSPA yet?

Yep - did it this afternoon and got a very high silver Apparently I would have got a Gold but my 3-point turn wasn't quite as slick as it should have been

Wahooooooooooooooooooo

Chris

Hi again

I am having a little trouble relating to a few folks who reckon than if they are going quickly, putting in a few gearchanges up to a corner is helping them. Surely, if you are in a hurry you will be braking late and hard, so having less to do with the gearbox must be a plus point?

Chris

Hi again

I am having a little trouble relating to a few folks who reckon than if they are going quickly' date=' putting in a few gearchanges up to a corner is helping them. Surely, if you are in a hurry you will be braking late and hard, so having less to do with the gearbox must be a plus point?

Chris[/quote']

hang on a miniute??? have i misinterpreted this whole thread?? or maybe i didn't read it all(most likely)

i thought we were talking about slowing down to stop at a rounabout or traffic lights or somthing?? if your going into a corner surely you would brake and change gear before the corner and not use the gears to slow you??? anyway you'd probably loose traction on a high speed corner if you dipped the clutch anyway!!

maybe i should read thing s more carefully before ptiing my oar in.

AFAIK, we're talking about approaching any hazard, eg traffic lights, roundabout or bend....

Chris

I was taught to drive (about 15 years ago) using the brakes only to slow down then change to the required gear to accelerate again.

But sometimes I do use engine braking to slow down without realising I'm doing it!

As for changing gear on bends - I tried it once in the wet in my old Audi 90 and discovered lift-off oversteer :eek:

I was lucky - it was quiet and one-way and I used the whole road, ending up on the pavement with a slightly dented alloy, brand new tyre split and tracking buggered.

I don't think anybody was talking about changing gear DURING a bend. Come out on the track some time and see if your IaM method works there. Different techniques for different conditions, was my message. TeflonTom - your avatar is obviously taken from a track - do you drive the same there as you do on the road?

TeflonTom - your avatar is obviously taken from a track - do you drive the same there as you do on the road?

my avatar... that's just some random image i pulled from the net..... i have done a bit of track racing though. mainly hillclimb sprints but the principles are just the same. but there is a world of difference to driving on the road!

Tried last night to drive by the IAM/Rospa method. Takes a lot of concentration to change what you've been doing for years!

I did find the rear end of the car (rear wheel drive) did feel stable approaching and slowing down, and can imagine that if a hairy hazzard jumped out in front of me I would have stood more chance of avoiding it safely.

However, whilst I know the gear I need to be in for my favourite corner, how does this work if you're approaching an unknown corner?

However' date=' whilst I know the gear I need to be in for my favourite corner, how does this work if you're approaching an unknown corner?

[/quote']

err... slow down a bit???????

However, whilst I know the gear I need to be in for my favourite corner, how does this work if you're approaching an unknown corner?

The basic principle of cornering is as follows:

1. As you approach the corner, identify the limit point (ie where the two sides of the road converge to a "vanishing" point). This is the limit of your vision so you need to bring your speed down (and then select the appropriate gear) so that you can safely stop in the distance you can see should you need to.

2. As you enter the corner, the limit point will start to "move" round and you should match your speed with this (using the throttle)

3. As you reach the apex of the corner, the limit point will start moving rapidly away from you as the view opens up. This is where you can get on the power and "chase" it.

Positioning to the crown of the road for left hand bends and to the nearside on right hand bends will increase available view and allow step 3 to happen sooner

Much better explained in the Roadcraft book, but it means you link speed to available vision, rather than having to know the roads

As Nick says though, there is a difference between "Racecraft" and "Roadcraft". Roadcraft's main focus is safety whilst still making excellent progress....

Chris

Very neatly put Chris

Thanks for that Chris, it makes things a little clearer - will try further experiments this evening

2. As you enter the corner' date=' the limit point will start to "move" round and you should match your speed with this (using the throttle)

3. As you reach the apex of the corner, the limit point will start moving rapidly away from you as the view opens up. This is where you can get on the power and "chase" it.

Chris[/quote']

Slow in Fast out approach

If the gearbox can stand the engine pulling the car, it should be able to stand the car pushing the engine - in fact more than. I'm sure we've all heard of people breaking gearboxes by shoving too much power through them with the engine - who's actually heard of someone breaking a gearbox by engine braking?

Not as such, but I've heard of people breaking crankshafts with the reverse torque they've applied.

Ok guys and gals, consider this point:-

As Skoda owners, we nearly all drive FWD cars, in which case we're in one of 2 situations:-

1) No ABS, in which case the law mandates a front-heavy brake bias, so the front tyres will lock before the rears under heavy braking, so if you can increase braking significantly using downshifts whilst braking you're not braking hard enough.

2) ABS, in which case you can't achieve more braking than the tyres will allow, whether you downshift or not.

Either way, on the public highway, why do you need the fraction of a second you can save that way, unless you're coming up to a corner where the acuity of the bend demands a lower speed than the sightline would permit?

I know its an extremem case that not many of us will generally experience day to day, but I found braking on the Nurburgring was much better when I had the revs up around the 3500+ mark. I.e approach in 4th at 80, brake, find 3rd gear at 70+ and the car would stop significantly quicker and more surefootedly(sp?) than if I knocked it into neutral.

In general I do try and shift down if braking downhill. Uphill I'm not too fussed. The usual thing for approaching a redlight would be to brake 6th gear to 40 mph, do 6th to 4th, brake 4th to 20mph then do 4th to 2nd and coast that to close to the line/car in front and dip clutch and stop.

3. As you reach the apex of the corner, the limit point will start moving rapidly away from you as the view opens up. This is where you can get on the power and "chase" it.

Not forgetting that if you are on the power, then off then on again through the bend you've not only judged it wrong but you're going slower :( You should only press go once out of a corner - that's for both road and track

I know its an extremem case that not many of us will generally experience day to day' date=' but I found braking on the Nurburgring was much better when I had the revs up around the 3500+ mark. I.e approach in 4th at 80, brake, find 3rd gear at 70+ and the car would stop significantly quicker and more surefootedly(sp?) than if I knocked it into neutral.

[/quote']

Hi Jason

Not sure how you are doing this? If you mean that you are changing down to maintain higher revs under braking, I can see that, but from 80 - 70 takes so little time that I cant really see how you would fit a gearchange in. In fact, braking from 80 - 50 for a corner should only be taking around 1.5 - 2 seconds in which time you would need to go from fourth to third anyway, so not really going down through the box, just overlapping the gearchange and braking. If you were going 80 - 30, I assume you would hook third then second? two gearchnges in 2.5 seconds ish?

Can I ask how many of the corners you approached with the ABS triggered?

Chris

I cant believe how many people said yes!!! I never use the gears to slow down its stupid!! I have to agree with Scoobychris because he has stated the correct and safest way to drive.

I remember when I was learning to drive, I was told to change down through the gears when slowing and was quite surprised to find out from Rebecca that she was told to change exactly the way ScoobyChris has described when she was learning a couple of years back.

It seems techniques have changed over the last 15 yrs or more and this would explain the high number of votes for ''Yes''.... maybe :confused: