hi people' date='

i learned to drive 20 years ago, and was taught to use both the gears and the brakes to slow down. my girlfriend who is learning to drive now, does not use the gears to slow down, which scares me, and has caused some riots in the car. I spoke to her driving instructor and he said i was right the way i was driving, and Lucie was right the way she was driving, so who's right ?[/quote']

I'm with you on this one, was taught to use the gears and my girlfriend was told to use the brakes....... we are no longer in the right on this one though :(

EVERYBODY should learn to use engine braking.

Despite modern braking systems being more reliable etc., if your brakes were to fail (which they can still do) at any point, without engine braking, what would you do?

If your engine cuts out on you at speed, you lose servo assistance to your brakes. Quickest way to slow down is to use engine braking through the gears in conjunction with non-assisted braking.

Without these techniques, you may find yourself at a loss in a hairy situation...

EVERYBODY should learn to use engine braking.

Despite modern braking systems being more reliable etc.' date=' if your brakes were to fail (which they can still do) at any point, without engine braking, what would you do?

If your engine cuts out on you at speed, you lose servo assistance to your brakes. Quickest way to slow down is to use engine braking through the gears in conjunction with non-assisted braking.

Without these techniques, you may find yourself at a loss in a hairy situation...[/quote']

Have to agree that it is a technique everybody should learn. If your engine cuts at speed and you use engine braking, you will get vacuum servo assistance. If you coast, you wont.

Engine on or off, you sould brake with it in gear.

Chris

I never pushed the car to the point of ABS triggering. Didn't fancy that. In terms of gearchanges, I would either redline third on the straight braking it without changing from 4500rpm (so say 75mph) or if in 4th brake hard from odd but still do a 4th to 3rd shift while braking, with one hand on the wheel, hopefully taking less than 1 second. (brutal clutch use )

This would be more to attack a corner at about 40-45, quite a tight one, so that 3rd gear has plenty of rev range to play with. I did find that I could accelerate damn fast from only 2250rpm in 3rd and other gears too for that matter.

If your engine cuts out on you at speed, you lose servo assistance to your brakes. Quickest way to slow down is to use engine braking through the gears in conjunction with non-assisted braking.

If your engine cuts out at speed, do you still have controllable engine braking? :confused:

Chris

Slow in Fast out approach

I like to think of it as Fast In ... Faster Out

Chris

EVERYBODY should learn to use engine braking.

Despite modern braking systems being more reliable etc.' date=' if your brakes were to fail (which they can still do) at any point, without engine braking, what would you do?

If your engine cuts out on you at speed, you lose servo assistance to your brakes. Quickest way to slow down is to use engine braking through the gears in conjunction with non-assisted braking.

Without these techniques, you may find yourself at a loss in a hairy situation...[/quote']

OK Mumphie, when was the last time you heard of someone having total brake failure in the real world, other than through systematic abuse, like trying to descend a steep Alpine pass in top gear, and control speed with the brakes alone?

Not at all unusual to boil the brakes on track - always good to know how to slow the car down without em

Ok, maybe I grabbed the wrong end of the stick here and I'm now getting confused.

I said "YES" to changing down through the box whilst braking, the reason is I was taught to drive like that. The old "brakes are cheaper than gearbox's" argument I heard when I was tested to make sure I was ok to drive a minibus at uni cause I changed down through the 'box whilst brakeing (I ignored my tester then too).

If by changing down you mean I select a gear to match the road speed that I am doing so I can go again if the obstruction (i.e. the car infront!) gets out of my way then I do that.

Does anyone block change going up through the box???

Race track /= real world.

Does anyone block change going up through the box???

Yes; If I welly it to get up to speed, I'll be in 2nd or 3rd, and see no point in making piles of gear shifts when I'm doing the speed I want, but want to get top gear.

Not at all unusual to boil the brakes on track - always good to know how to slow the car down without em

Or when following the leader round wales

Does anyone block change going up through the box???

Often use 2nd to 4th in 30 limits, 4th to 6th at the bottom of slip roads.

Chris

OK Mumphie, when was the last time you heard of someone having total brake failure in the real world, other than through systematic abuse, like trying to descend a steep Alpine pass in top gear, and control speed with the brakes alone?

When was the last time you heard of someone frying their gearbox because they never used the brake pedal?

Yup, downshift for control, so quite frequently downshift, most corners regardless of traffic in front of me. Most road drivers slow down way to much for corners and corners are linked by straights so being ready on the view point to commit makes for some good moments. since using the old bm track car I've also being trying to blip throttle on downshift too, which for goochie I would of thought is also common practise now.

Depends on as said above, what the next action is, i.e. stop at jcn or corner, so 5th 3rd then 2nd|1st. So I also blockshift up and down the box, typically missing 4th as hard accel in 4th is way past any normal limits; 3rd is puching it at times

And I do recall cooking brakes on a road drive I also recall arriving at a jcn in the lake district and rolling across it; but that was because the front pads had failed, I was using the gears, but the old man thought I was BSing him about the poor brakes

I've also heard tales of various cars ending up in walls on track, maybe depending too much on brakes, but you have to at times. I do knowing if hose fails or somthing else then I'll not get much speed knocked off in gears, but I may just.

...and remember folks, using your brakes (as opposed to the gears alone) gives the car behind you a chance to see that they're about to get intimate with your rear bumper.

Have read instructions on certain U.S. forums on how to install a "brake light kill switch" specifically designed to remove this safety net for annoying tailgaters. Not something I'd want to try though.

Si

I'm another habitual down shifter, I've always done it since I learnt to drive, I was taught to do so by my instructor.

I do about 60,000 miles a year and I never killed a clutch or gearbox because of it.

Besides, If you use the brakes less the old alloys don't get so dirty. :P

Block changing is another favourite of mine, I'll give it some stick in 3rd up to 50-60 then block change straight to 5th or 6th depending on the road ahead.

Everyone drives differently, thats what makes driving so fun and interesting....

Anyone ever played the game of "can I slow right down just using my gears before I reach the traffic jam up front"?

Anyone every played the game of "can I slow right down just using my gears before I reach the traffic jam up front"?

IAM tend to advocate lifting and perhaps a block change in the middle to hopefully avoid stopping at lights (in the hope they change before you arrive). This approach also keeps the traffic behind flowing (until the tailgaiting nobs have to lock up to avoid hitting you cos they can't keep a safe distance).

IAM tend to advocate lifting and perhaps a block change in the middle to hopefully avoid stopping at lights (in the hope they change before you arrive). This approach also keeps the traffic behind flowing (until the tailgaiting nobs have to lock up to avoid hitting you cos they can't keep a safe distance).

Keeps the traffic flowing and saves fuel.

I'm sure it'll get shot down in flames by someone pretty soon

Where's the "it depends on the conditions" box?

For instance, when I'm approaching a roundabout I usually change down from fifth to fourth (if necessary) and slow down, but what happens after that depends on circumstances. If there's traffic on the roundabout I will brake to a stop from fourth, select first, and start off again when my path is clear. If there isn't any traffic on the roundabout I'll block change from fourth to second (double declutching helps) and carry on.

I'll block change from fourth to second (double declutching helps) and carry on.

A blip with the clutch down is enough, don't have to engage neutral to do it

Anyone ever played the game of "can I slow right down just using my gears before I reach the traffic jam up front"?

I love that game. Nearly got it wrong a few times when the dozy so-and-so I'm about to hit hasn't realised the lights are green or the car in front has moved.

A blip with the clutch down is enough, don't have to engage neutral to do it

Interestingly, I was reading what is expected of an HPC driver! And I thought RoSPA was challenging!

Chris

What benefits do you get from double declutching over a blip to match revs on a downchange?

Interesting link that BTW Chris.

What benefits do you get from double declutching over a blip to match revs on a downchange?

Interesting link that BTW Chris.

Hi

A blip of throttle to match road speed to engine speed is fine when you have a gearbox with syncromesh that will accomodate the differnce in speed between input and output shafts in the gearbox. Double de clutch allows you to use the blip of the throttle to speed up the input shaft of the gearbox so that you can actually engage the gear over a wide speed differnce. If you are in the habit of changing into first gear at highish speeds, a double declutch will prolpong the life of the syncromesh on first which would otherwise suffer.

Chris