Wheels offset - vRS - how far out?

[32KOFDATA]

It was a matter of time the bug got in to you - now there is no coming back!  :p

[newbie69]

Supposedly, I am doing all this so that I then stop spending but I'm afraid it actually works the other way. The more you spend the fewer are your hesitations to go further, we'll see...

[newbie69]

Last night on my hall:

 

 

 

Today at the tyre garage:

 

 

Threw some Federal RS-R while I was at it...  :p

 

 

Then, for a quick shooting:

 

 

 

Then back home:

 

 

 

 

So... my worries about maybe being too wide are completely gone. They widen the track perfectly since the car is lowered and save the need of spacers. I do have to admit, the moment I saw them on the car felt a bit awkward as I was so attached to the Gigaros, and felt like I was next to a... stranger! But the more I look at them the more they grow on me now and start to feel very pleased with the result... 

 

Federal's feel as If I also had a wheel alignment as compared to the bl**dy Nexens even though they have only 50km on them. Steadier wheel, most torque-steer is eliminated and stability at 150 km/h is much much better. Also did a 5.7" 0-60 (Torque app) with just one run. (that should speed the bed in process  )  

Edited 28 March, 2015 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Love it, very nice and sits well.

Have you noticed the improved turning circle?

[newbie69]

Thanks George, I start to like them very much as well, creature of habit I guess... There is definitely a great improvement in steering altogether. I actually headed to the tyre garage today with the plan to do a wheel alignment as well but after I test-drove it it really felt it didn't need to (had one last August). That much better were the Federals.

[sharkrider]

looks great! and you wont regret the RSRs the dry grip is incredible.

[wrightcnc2009]

Looks very well!! What lowering springs are you running?

[newbie69]

Looks very well!! What lowering springs are you running?

It's H&R 40mm with Bilstein B8 dampers.

[wrightcnc2009]

It's H&R 40mm with Bilstein B8 dampers.

Excellent, that's the combination I was almost sure on and after seeing your pictures I'm now 100%. I've already got a set of federal rsr's in my office at work waiting for call up but don't want to waste them on the stock set up.

[Grantwebster]

It's H&R 40mm with Bilstein B8 dampers.

Sits nice how is the handling now you've dropped it a little does it stick better can't decide if should get these springs or coil overs

[newbie69]

Sits nice how is the handling now you've dropped it a little does it stick better can't decide if should get these springs or coil overs

 

 

Hard to say what is the precise improvement the springs alone are offering since I've changed springs, dampers, bushes and added a rarb since quite some time and it doesn't resemble at all the stock behaviour any more. It's dropped since 2012, yesterday it was just about new wheels and rubber. It definitely had improved when lowered although as I've said many times, the biggest difference as compared to stock was the rarb. Springs are a rather simple/cheap upgrade, coilovers (assuming you don't go for cheap ones) will be much more expensive but I've heard really positive things for the KW ones. I personally didn't need adjustability in ride height or firmness so it didn't make much sense to go for those. The H&R + Bilstein combo made the car much more planted and I'm definitely glad with them.

 

My only niggle is I think the rear dampers are too stiff and depending on the parking slope, the back of the car may look like it's sitting smt like ~5mm higher. (It's either that or the removed weights from the rear axle!  but I don't think 25 kg may push down so much) 

Edited 29 March, 2015 by newbie69

[sharkrider]

that will just be how the handbrake locks the back wheels on the slope, and the weight tries to go backwards, but cant move the weels, but can shift the suspension up a bit against the hadbrake, bet if you took the handbrake off and moved a fraction, the rear would settle again

[newbie69]

Yeah I was sure it was the handbrake when I first noticed it so I tried without handbrake engaged and the issue was still there..  :| Ok, the last photo in my parking place is with handbrake on but I have double-checked it on several occasions. At the beginning I thought the useless guy that installed the dampers (remember the loose front-right damper a year ago?) had messed that up as well, but there's no adjustability there so I figured it was more of a characteristic of the dampers themselves (or... the weights?)  Nothing too serious, I just know it's there so I can't help noticing it! 

Edited 29 March, 2015 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Are you dead sure the rears are for the hatch and not the estate.?

 

Maybe worth looking at moving the battery to boot if you still have a Full Size one.

I have the weights off, but 2 spares in the boot, so much the same weight.

(no fancy suspension though, and no ARB.)

Edited 29 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[newbie69]

Are you dead sure the rears are for the hatch and not the estate.?

 

 

99% sure as I remember I had double-checked the codes back then. Plus the springs went in first, stock dampers still on and the gaps looked pretty equal. I only noticed there is a slight difference after the Bilsteins went on. I plan to drop ~25kg on the boot and as far out from the axle as possible to confirm it's indeed the removed weights with the harder dampers combo that creates this.

Edited 29 March, 2015 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Maybe check again if you have the invoice,

because the springs can be the same length and the vehicle can sit at the same height unladen,

Springs rates can be wrong,  as i know when i got new springs the other week, they looked identical, but the Paint dots were different,

because the poundage was different.

[sharkrider]

the bilsien shocks are the same part number for the hatch and estate George, I have double checked with different sources when looking into it

 

its only the spring rates/ hights that are different.

 

edit: you may have been talking about springs

[SuperTurbo]

That's right, can confirm that the bilstein shocks are the same for hatch and estate, just the rear springs are different.

All in all, with a RARB it's an amazing combo

[newbie69]

That's right, can confirm that the bilstein shocks are the same for hatch and estate, just the rear springs are different.

All in all, with a RARB it's an amazing combo

 

How are the rear H&R springs different? I mean when I search I only find one set suitable for any MK2 vRS, that's the: H&R 29073-5  Are there different codes for the hatch and the estate? If so, does anybody have them? 

[sharkrider]

not sure on H&R, eibach's are very different, 5 mm higher for the estate at the rear compaired to the hatch,  and a harder spring weight for load too...

 

the aussie guy with the estate tried hatch springs for the lower hight and said it ruined the handling....

 

H&R are a quality german company (TUV approved stuff) I doubt they would be slack on this, there are probably different springs (or they dont make them for the estate)

[Ootohere]

I had a look at various H&R sellers of 40mm Springs.

they seemed to mostly all show the same rear springs for 2011 on RS limo / sedan /SW

but it was a bit odd where some showed the 5J RS up to 900 kg  & the over 901 kg

 

What you mentioned in post #36 was the rear height,

but the rear dampers should not be holding the height, the car sits on the springs,

the dampers move up and down (open and close) to damp the spring action.

 

It looks to be sitting good in the pictures.

You need to be able to put passengers and luggage in the rear and have the springs and dampers work as they would if the rear has no extra weight in, it looks like you are good there,

as long as it is handling OK.

Edited 29 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[mmmRacer]

Setup is looking great. The front is always going to need to sit a little lower otherwise you will lose front end grip.

[Ootohere]

Nail on head.

Which is why the Estate although Longer (more rear overhang) and Heavier had the better weight balance and front grip.

Hence better Traction and official times.

 

the vRS hatch which is actually lighter than the Estate, Seat Ibiza Cupra, Polo GTI had Success Ballast bolted to the rear crash bar.

Not only spoiling the handling and Traction / Front grip, 

but ensuring the cheapest & lightest of the 5 vehicles would not get the lower Emission that the VW & Audi got,

but would not have a lower 0-62 (100 km) & the slowest Top Speed could be given of the 5 vehicles.

VW in there wisdom took the heavy battery out of the engine department, put it in the boot,

and never put a spare wheel in as standard with the Twincharger.

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.

*Road Testers will comment on the different handling and faster VW, lower emissions, but never think why,???

Cars have the same components, Same Suspension, same drivetrain, only noticable difference is 215's on the VW, and 205's on the Skoda.*

(& the Factory Engineers & Road Testers thought about getting the best Balance & Traction from the not very sophisticated or expensive Suspension and platform. Not just Designing & Manufacturing 'Weights' to add on,

as every other Manufacturer tries to reduce weight, Carrying extra weight needs extra braking or works brakes harder

and uses more fuel.  Skoda make a big deal with the All New Fabia of Average Weight Reductions !!!)

 

Edited 30 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[fabianoh5n1]

 

 

the vRS hatch which is actually lighter than the Estate

 

Those weights are heavy as **** not sure why they used them , i cant feel a difference in handling after removing them.

[newbie69]

Nice posts guys. I know the height is determined by the springs but the fact I noticed the difference only when I put the Bilsteins on made me assume they were maybe harder near the rebound limit? Or maybe I hadn't looked close enough before? Or... I don't know! There sure is a 5-10mm difference depending on slope, charge, parking brake on/off and whenever I look at other cars around me they all seem to be pretty equal front and rear. I generally drive with absolutely nothing on the boot other than the spare wheel and I have removed the weights. Maybe everybody else is always loaded? lol   From my search last night I understand H&R only do one universal set for the 5J vRS so can't be wrong there either.