Nox Emissions Software Update

[The Plumber]

Still waiting for a reply from Seat to my e-mail informing them I've no interest in having the car involved in this service action.

 

 

TP

[Ryeman]

[quote name="ejstubbs"

 

 

The fix for the NOx issue on EURO5 engines doesn't involve retrofitting an SCR, adblue etc.  Or have I misunderstood your post?  (I thought you were replying to muddyboots but I may have got confused.)

 

However, your explanation of the pros and cons of adblue is useful, so thanks for that.

It was just a clarification of the benefits SCR brings but being too expensive for retrofitting in the U.S. (not needed in the UK) means buyback and scrappage.

It looks like the UK government isn't going to let VW off lightly though.

[weasley]

My understanding (could be wrong!) is that increasing levels of EGR can cause more soot production - so if the fix involves increased EGR (to reduce NOx) then potentially you'll get more frequent active DPF regeneration, which in turn could lead to ash building up more quickly and DPFs requiring replacement earlier.Not "damage" to the DPF as such, just a possible shorter lifespan - though no doubt still well outside of warranty periods....

To reduce NOx you need to reduce combustion temperature. You can do this with increased EGR, reduced turbo pressure and/or altered fuel injection timing/amount. Reducing combustion temperature will increase soot, meaning the DPF may get filled more quickly. However it is not a given that more active regens as this may be dealt with by passive regens if you do the right kind of speeds. Even if you do get more active regens, this in itself shouldn't affect the DPF, since all this does is burn off the soot particles... there is no reason why more ash will be generated (ash comes from burnt engine oil). However there is the prospect of increased fuel dilution from the active regens, which can dilute the engine oil and lead to wear in extremis. Not to mention increased fuel consumption. Plus, more soot in the oil can lead to thickening and abrasive wear (again, worst case scenario).

There is not a win-win solution to this. Unless I get some compelling evidence from people with actual engineering qualifications that convince me otherwise, mine is staying unaltered.

[Ryeman]

If it's not mandatory why do it?......unless you think it will result in a lower sale price.

[Falmouthboy]

If it's not mandatory why do it?......unless you think it will result in a lower sale price.

How could it - if the buyer wanted to get it done he could - indeed if it turns out the 'fix' adversely impacts performance it could improve the residual value if left.  I suspect cars that go back into the dealer network for resale will be done as a matter of course.

[Ryeman]

How could it - if the buyer wanted to get it done he could - indeed if it turns out the 'fix' adversely impacts performance it could improve the residual value if left.  I suspect cars that go back into the dealer network for resale will be done as a matter of course.

For us that's a valid question but for the majority of the general public it might be seen as something that has been overlooked by a careless owner.

Finding a knowledgeable buyer would be a priority for me; one that understands and appreciates your point.

As a px within the VAG family I would expect there would be no issue as they would deal with it in any case, either now or when traded.

[K100RS]

My Yeti 110 has now done 80,000 miles without any problems with the car over the years. Our local Robinson dealer in Norwich has advised for this mod to take place for the 23R6 EA 189 diesel engine. Now having read and have seen many software mess ups over the years working for different electronic companies I will not be taking up their nice free offer unlike the USA who might actually get some compensation.

The engine runs sweetly and returns daily around 52-53 mpg so will leave well alone.

 

As it has now done 80,000 miles with the 110 engine is there anything that should be done at this mileage. Gearbox oil change, what are the valves running at, antifreeze change and air con liquid change?

Just asking as I have done all the basics like pads, oil and filter myself but of course no more useful Haynes work shop manual's

 

FlyingBrick

[jawsnpaws]

How could it - if the buyer wanted to get it done he could - indeed if it turns out the 'fix' adversely impacts performance it could improve the residual value if left.  I suspect cars that go back into the dealer network for resale will be done as a matter of course.

 

You have hit the nail on the head Fal..boy . VAG will be bound to fix any car that goes through the network , sales or service and the rest will be be only done " on request " , bearing in mind the " Tiguan " problems . I for one will not be having the modification , but VAG will be bound to facilitate the upgrade for the next owner , for free .

[ejstubbs]

VAG will be bound to fix any car that goes through the network , sales or service

 

So if I take my Yeti to the local Skoda dealer for its regular service, I won't be able to prevent them from installing the fix?  The way round that would seem to be to get the car serviced by an independent.  But my extended warranty* (which is up for renewal soon) requires me to have the car serviced at a dealership.  Hmm...

 

* From Warranty Direct, not through Skoda

[langers2k]

So if I take my Yeti to the local Skoda dealer for its regular service, I won't be able to prevent them from installing the fix?  The way round that would seem to be to get the car serviced by an independent.  But my extended warranty* (which is up for renewal soon) requires me to have the car serviced at a dealership.  Hmm...

 

* From Warranty Direct, not through Skoda

 

They have to ask your permission, at which point you can refuse the update.

[glenn_btn]

ejstubbs

 

The dealer told me it's optional. They would not just do it incase someone has a custom map.

 

Glenn

[ejstubbs]

Well that sounds more reasonable.

[Ootohere]

Who is the provider of a Extended Warranty that requires the servicing to be done at a Main Dealership?

 

The Skoda / VW Group Warranties do not as there is a free market and that would be restrictive practices.

So it is EU Legislations that apply.

They will say Servicing to the Service Schedule / Guidelines using OEM parts and Fluids by a VAT Registered Establishment, 

but even that is not in the T&C's because others are Trained & Qualified that do not need to be VAT Registered.

 

So there are Independent Garages or even Individuals that can do the servicing and that can even be a Mobile Technician that can do to as good or better standard 

than a VW Factory trained fitter might.

[Falmouthboy]

Who is the provider of a Extended Warranty that requires the servicing to be done at a Main Dealership?

 

The Skoda / VW Group Warranties do not as there is a free market and that would be restrictive practices.

So it is EU Legislations that apply.

They will say Servicing to the Service Schedule / Guidelines using OEM parts and Fluids by a VAT Registered Establishment, 

but even that is not in the T&C's because others are Trained & Qualified that do not need to be VAT Registered.

 

So there are Independent Garages or even Individuals that can do the servicing and that can even be a Mobile Technician that can do to as good or better standard 

than a VW Factory trained fitter might.

Extended warranties are not really 'warranties', they are 'insurance'. Whilst the EU ruling about restrictive practices relates to the manufacturers warranty, an insurance policy can put whatever exclusions it likes. You don't have a choice about the warranty that comes with the car, you do when shopping for a subsequent insured warranty.

[Ootohere]

That is a given,

but the question asked was which warranties state Main Dealership servicing to keep the Warranty Valid.

I know the Exclusions in the Skoda Approved Car Care ltd Extended Warranty, and the one they now sell, 

& what is in the Manufactures Warranty T&C's.

 

PS. EDIT.

I see the bit at the foot of post #34 that the warranty is with Warranty Direct.

& that he says 'at a dealership', and not at a Main Dealer.  so my bad.

Stll not sure what at a Dealership means, it implies Main Dealer for a brand of vehicle covered by the warranty.

It is VW Group dealerships doing 'The Fix'.

Edited 22 October, 2016 by Offski

[ejstubbs]

OK, I've just found and read the conditions in the WD renewal notice and those state that the car: "must be serviced according to the manufacturer's requirements by a VAT registered garage."  So a lot less restrictive than I recalled from when I first took the policy out (I don't have the original policy documents to hand right now to check).

 

Nonetheless, Falmouthboy's point still stands: a third-party insurer such as WD can specify any conditions they like, there's no restrictive practice involved.

 

Apologies for possibly having set an unwarranted hare running.

[Ootohere]

Yes they can set their terms, we know that,, but they do not tell you that Servicing needs done at a Skoda Franchised Dealership, 

So it was your post that it must be serviced at a Dealership that was misleading,  there are Service Centres that are nor Dealerships selling cars but might be owned by them.

 

I never spotted the small writing at the bottom of your post on Warranty Direct, i thought you were talking a car still under manufacturers warranty & you meant Extended Warranty as purchased at time of buying the car, ie Skoda Extended Warranty.

I asked about what Extended Warranty provider had the terms that a Dealership must do the servicing.

and until they change the Terms & Conditions that you need to have the VW Fix, that is Manufacturer or After Market Warranty,

& VW and the UK or EU Governments are not making you have the Fix unless they change the Law in some way.

 

So Independents or Franchised Workshops are available for Servicing and the choice of the Fix is with the Registered Keeper or Owner, 

and with a Leased Car that might be as the Owner gets the car back from those Leasing it, 

unless the T&C's say they need to do as told with a vehicle they do not own.

Edited 22 October, 2016 by Offski

[Pouclee]

I won't be having mine done until VAG group have published new technical data showing how the update has affected, BHP, Torque, Performance, MPG and DPF regeneration. These were all things I took into consideration when I bought the vehicle. I am aware than VAG group are unlikely to produce such data for the recall as it maybe damning to the vehicles involved after the recall update.

If no data is ever published so that I can make an informed choice on whether I have the update or not, I will decline. After all the Yeti I drive is what I chose after test drive taking into account the published technical data for the performance and economy of the vehicle.

[Brijo]

Pouclee - an excellent summary of the victims' situation :clap:

[bluecar1]

what you need is some to put a car on a  rolling road / dyno before and after the fix, plus get a set of figures from a friendly MOT station before and after fix

 

so long as very short space of time between them and the "fix" there is not a lot VAG could say if a noticeable change in performance is demonstrated

 

also if like me you keep careful track of fuel use you should be able to see any impact on economy as well