WOW. What can I say.

Well long story short; after all the suspension work on the car I felt that the car was almost 100% but something just didnt give me the total confidence to attack corners like I have in other previous quick cars. Ever since the car was new, Ive not been fully impressed with how stable it felt at higher speeds either.

With this in mind and with the need for some new front tyres I started researching capable, local geometry experts.

During the searches, one name kept coming up positvely, again and again - Wheels InMotion. I'd frankly never heard of them but was willing to do the hour and a bit journey in the hope they would be as good as the forums (Lexus, EVO, MX5, 200SX etc) suggested they would be.

Well, simply put, its the best £100 Ive spent on the car!

I arrived 30 mins early. I was offered coffee or tea on arrival and shown into the waiting room (car mags galore, 60" plasma and windows all round so you can see them working on the cars!) Just 15 minutes into the visit I was asked for my keys. They brought the car round and drove it straight onto the ramp. Tony asked me about the car and specifically any issues I had with the handling. He then explained what they do, how they do it and why they do it! He spent the next 1hr 30mins transforming the car.

I kid you not but if anyone said drive it and tell me what we've done to it - geometry work wouldnt even register! The car now feels 'complete'. Flat and totally planted at high speed, improved stability in long sweeping corners, missing the noise from the rear tyres (and I never even cosidered that a problem originally!) and less skip from the rear on hard, fast corners over ruts. The car is now simply a total joy

Many thanks to Tony for the time and the 90 minutes of geometry education! Every question was answered and the overall service experience was exceptional

Below are a couple of pics showing the car before the changes, a sheet detailing the changes made and a few snaps of the car being worked on.

Edited 7 October, 200817 yr by FocusZtec

Sounds like you can change a lot with the octy. The fabia can only change the front wheel tracking, so the best thing you can do for handling is a 4 wheel alignment to ensure the front wheels are pointing the right way.

From the figures, it seems the main issue was with the back axle. They've altered the camber back there a lot more than the front, same with the toe. On the front, it looks like they've realigned the front wheels a fair bit too, which will have helped loads.

Looks like a very professional outfit, with great customer service. How old is the car? I wonder would those changes result of wear and tear or are they coming out of the factory like that. If so then there maybe a lot more of them requiring that.

This is a really big issue on the MX-5 forums, I hope to get mine done soon, where abouts are WIM, please?

pittvrs : WIM Website

Address

33 Chess Business Park

Moor Road

Chesham

HP5 1SD

Telephone

0794 842 7383

This is a really big issue on the MX-5 forums, I hope to get mine done soon, where abouts are WIM, please?

Chesham, Bucks

Full address is on the paperwork in the pix above

Certainly sounds like they've transformed the car

Certainly sounds like they've transformed the car

Yes, they really have. Considering Ive been modding and tinkering with cars all my life Im amazed the difference this has made. Compared to my usual six monthly visit to the locally acknowledged 'professionals' in this field; these guys abilities and quality of service are in another league.

No more two wheel alignment for me (which Tony mentioned and backed up why it was a con to me!), this is all you need doing to the suspension geometry and once its done, its done.

Having said that, I will be doing the journey back for the next two replacement tyres as they instilled such confidence to me on this visit. A got a couple of prices whilst there and they are also highly competitve.

They have some very impressive kit there also, like the touchless tyre changing machine! Particulalry impressive to someone that has had their alloys damaged by the YTS boys at the local tyre outfit in the past! :thumbdwn:

Incidentally, Im not on any sort of commission with these guys; I just tell it like it is. If I have had bad service from a company, I'll make people wary. On the flipside; if I receive exceptionally good service like in this case, I will also tell people.

Check out their tyre forum for some great free info btw:

Wheels-InMotion (Powered by Invision Power Board)

Looks like a very professional outfit, with great customer service. How old is the car? I wonder would those changes result of wear and tear or are they coming out of the factory like that. If so then there maybe a lot more of them requiring that.

Well Im personally convinced that the car wasnt right from day one but it was delivered with dealer fitted Eibachs dont forget. Apparently, the geometry was all done after this was installed but the car never really felt stable at speed. Car is 1 year old now with just over 10k on the clock.

There are a lot of examples of dealer work in this area not being to too convincing (thats putting it really nicely for a public board) all I'd say is, if at all possible, give these guys a call.

BTW - pricing depends on what needs doing - they have three bands. I fell into the highest as I needed camber, toe and caster alterations.

Lee

Edited 8 October, 200817 yr by FocusZtec

I'm sold just with the pretty pictures Lee

I'm sold just with the pretty pictures Lee

Thought you might be

In all seriousness though Stu; that software is amazing. I have loads more prints just didnt want to bomb the thread with them. It even works out the size of the contact patches of the rubber before and after adjustment! Its staggering. Since my visit I actually find suspension geometry exceptionally interesting!

Lee

It took him 90 minutes to do that? (rear cambers, rear toe, front toe)

He must be very "thorough".

What's 100quid worth in the true scheme of things? For down here that's exchanges to $225AUD which is about 1 days pay after tax for (whats called here) a para-professional engineer (ie: a tradesman who has worked his way up to a desk & does high level tech work). But the best (and most expensive) wheel aligner in Sydney would charge about $140 for what was done to your car.

I must admit though, a good wheel alignment puts the icing on the cake.

Edited 8 October, 200817 yr by brad1.8T

It took him 90 minutes to do that? (rear cambers, rear toe, front toe)

He must be very "thorough".

I must admit though, a good wheel alignment puts the icing on the cake.

He was exceptionally thorough. About half of that time was spent discussing things with me and answering my continual stream of questions.

There are a lot of examples of dealer work in this area not being to too convincing (thats putting it really nicely for a public board) all I'd say is, if at all possible, give these guys a call.

BTW - pricing depends on what needs doing - they have three bands. I fell into the highest as I needed camber, toe and caster alterations.

Lee

Unfortunately I'm in Ireland so a little difficult to nip down to see them

I'm sold just with the pretty pictures Lee

There cool alright, really gives an idea of how out of shape it was before. Was there somebody else who posted pics like that before? Look familiar IIRC

The software shown in the pictures is WinAlign from Hunter Engineering. Its a decent enough bit of kit. There are other systems that do the same things (e.g. Bear, Jim Beam, etc etc). I used to work in the motor trade and we used to send out cars to a local guy who had a Jim Beam set up. Very good it was too.

Most of these systems are designed to be almost idiot-proof and spoon-feed the technician through the alignment process. I have done a few cars myself with virtually no training - on some systems the software includes a graphic/image to show the technician where to make the adjustment and which way to turn the bolt etc etc.

The OP's car was not really too far out. The rear camber was only borderline out and the other settings not radically out. Be aware that a car will be set up correctly when it leaves the factory, but as components settle in there will be some changes. Also, the OP's car appears to have been lowered and the alignment may not have been done correctly following this work. Pound to a penny it will be out a bit in a year's time.

£100 and 90 mins is a bit over the top for a few small adjustments. We paid about £50 a time and 20-40mins should see the job done. Its not rocket science and the Octavia is straightforward to adjust. Takes time if you run into a badly siezed fastener though.

You can find details of workshops that have Hunter alignment systems intalled by using the website www.alignmycar.co.uk

They are not far form and I may just pay them a visit soon

The software shown in the pictures is WinAlign from Hunter Engineering. Its a decent enough bit of kit. There are other systems that do the same things (e.g. Bear, Jim Beam, etc etc). I used to work in the motor trade and we used to send out cars to a local guy who had a Jim Beam set up. Very good it was too.

Most of these systems are designed to be almost idiot-proof and spoon-feed the technician through the alignment process. I have done a few cars myself with virtually no training - on some systems the software includes a graphic/image to show the technician where to make the adjustment and which way to turn the bolt etc etc.

The OP's car was not really too far out. The rear camber was only borderline out and the other settings not radically out. Be aware that a car will be set up correctly when it leaves the factory, but as components settle in there will be some changes. Also, the OP's car appears to have been lowered and the alignment may not have been done correctly following this work. Pound to a penny it will be out a bit in a year's time.

£100 and 90 mins is a bit over the top for a few small adjustments. We paid about £50 a time and 20-40mins should see the job done. Its not rocket science and the Octavia is straightforward to adjust. Takes time if you run into a badly siezed fastener though.

You can find details of workshops that have Hunter alignment systems intalled by using the website www.alignmycar.co.uk

That was indeed the software that was being used on my car. They use a more advanced piece of software for more highly modified chassis setups :eek:

If my original settings werent too far out then I'd love to have a real duffer and feel the difference a decent geometry session with the experts could make.

He showed me the software in great detail. Octavia II specific diagrams and photos of where all the adjustment bolts are on the chassis. Even video detailing changes if you get really stuck! Nothing takes away from the fact that Tony is by far the most knowledgeable chap I have ever met in this area.

Lee

That was indeed the software that was being used on my car. They use a more advanced piece of software for more highly modified chassis setups :eek:

If my original settings werent too far out then I'd love to have a real duffer and feel the difference a decent geometry session with the experts could make.

Lee

WinAlignerTuner is what they used with modified cars. It is for use with cars where the suspension has been lowered. Bascially when you lower a car it (as a rule of thumb) increases negative camber and toe and this software calculates new values based on the amount of lowering and the standard geometry of the car.

On your car the only angle that would have really worried me in your original setup was the right rear toe-in. The excess front toe-in would have scrubbed the tyres a little, but would not have impacted on stability. Ditto the rear negative camber which is at the limit of its tolerance.

Wheels in Motion are amongst the best in the business. They are genuine enthusiasts, and will advise of the best settings for modified cars etc free of charge whether you use them or not.

A good geommetry set up will normally transform a car, and is money well spent, especially if you've been fiddling with the suspension.

Am I right in saying your £100 also gets you a free check in a couple of months? My local place is £47 for full alignment but admittedly alignment is only part of their business.

Wheels in Motion are amongst the best in the business. They are genuine enthusiasts, and will advise of the best settings for modified cars etc free of charge whether you use them or not.

A good geommetry set up will normally transform a car, and is money well spent, especially if you've been fiddling with the suspension.

Am I right in saying your £100 also gets you a free check in a couple of months? My local place is £47 for full alignment but admittedly alignment is only part of their business.

Hi Tom, you are indeed correct, a free check up further down the road (pardon the pun!) to ensure everything is still spot on and also free Nitrogen for the tyres! Bill was actually £85 + vat by the way.

Lee

Hello everyone

I was invited to this thread to explain a little about wim so here goes....

My field as an instructor of chassis dynamics utilizes the Hunter DSP811 high definition series combined with advanced handling software for the modified car.

Our arena is evolutionary Geometry calibration for the domestic and modified market, basically tuning the chassis to the modifications or evolving new calibrations to force requirements desired by the owner.

We calibrate and sponsor cars in Toyota sprint, Timed Attack, British Drift Championships and next season Pro-Drift.

We have also written corrective calibration positions for the Lexus IS200/300/300sc as well as the current issues with the Mazda MX5nc MK3.

Basically we are reasonably clued up on "actual" calibration requirements, current or desired.

I'll leave you with this thought....... Front wheel alignment, what do they align them to?

I must admit mine hasn't been to great since I've had the steering rack replaced as part of a recall, would it be worth giving it a go or is this only for modified suspension/steering systems?

I must admit mine hasn't been to great since I've had the steering rack replaced as part of a recall, would it be worth giving it a go or is this only for modified suspension/steering systems?

ANY car will benefit from a full alignment IF the alignment is incorrect in the first place.

I must admit mine hasn't been to great since I've had the steering rack replaced as part of a recall, would it be worth giving it a go or is this only for modified suspension/steering systems?

The problem we have today is the tyre industry has sold us "wheel alignment" for so long we have been lead to believe it's the do all and end all of every complaint an owner has regarding tyre wear or handling.

Our cars are three dimensional X, Y, Z, wheel alignments line of sight is "X" so it's not reasonable to correct X without knowing where Y and Z are.

So in answer to your question every car would benefit from a full image no matter the modifications if any.

This thread reminded me to get the other car, MX5, checked and the geometry correctly aligned. There's certainly plenty of positive feedback on the MX5 forums for such work.

Now the current model MX5 has a particular issue with geometry in view of the UK spec ride height, so I'm looking forward to you weaving your magic next Friday Tony.

The vRS is brand new so I haven't even thought about that one yet, but I'm fascinated to understand more about the topic and the benefits of fine tuning. As someone with a keen interest in motor sport I recognise the importance of a well set-up car in that environment and will be interested to see how much difference it makes in less extreme use for a road car.

I had my previous BMW 530d touring aligned by another company, which did make a difference, but I will be having my L&K looked at shortly.