ECU broken!!!

[Basil]

Fishy thing is -

Why was the ECU opened up in the first place? AFAIK it is simply not necessary, and any delicate electronics can get damaged by static shock that only shows up later on in service.

My ECU was remapped on a bench without being opened up- no sensor codes or any probs whatsoever.

[iep]

As explained earlier in the thread, the ECU was opened up by CT as this means the remap can be applied without powering up the whole ECU outside of the car. Since CT do their remapping via mail order, the ECU cannot be programmed in the car or codes cleared after re-install. If the ECU is powered up outside of the car it will obviously flag multiple errors (as it is not connected to any of its sensors). These errors can not be deleted because, as long as the ECU is switched on and out of the car, they will immediately re-occur.

This means that when the ECU is returned to the customer and plugged back into the car the engine warning light may immediately come on. It may go out after a while (when it finds all its sensors), it may not.

To avoid this issue CT remove the eeprom, program it externally, re-solder to the ECU PCB and return to the customer. ECU is never powered up externally and no codes are flagged. Not a bad plan all in.

As for issues with static discharge damage etc, provided all the usual precautions are taken, the risk is minimal (I work in the field of chip design and manufacture).

Having said that, some chips (outliers in the manufacturing process) may be particularly fragile and might (very small possibility) be more easily damaged. In this case the removal/reinsertion of the chip could damage it. However, in such a case, the memory chips is so weak that is very likely to fail at some point in the car's life anyway and all this process will do is highlight the issue sooner rather than later.

All in (and not claiming to be an expert) CT's approach, on paper at least, seems fine to me. As for John's specific case, I couldn't comment.

Cheers,

iep

[auroan]

IEP, you CAN bench flash an ECU with out the issues with sensors missing on power up etc. No need what so ever to open up and ECU "IF" you "TOTALLY" know what your doing.

[iep]

Thanks Auroan. I did not know that. My comment was based on a few other threads I had read in the past (though these were mainly related to an older obd1 car I used to have).

I stand corrected.

iep

[martziniuk]

My ecu has been bench flashed twice now and has never come back with any codes. I don't see the need to open the ecu if you have decent tools.

[vRS Carl]

What Gary at Custom Tuning doesn't seem to realise is that his company is going to take a big hit in terms of reputation. I don't know how he claims the Email JCB sent is bad. IMHO there was nothing wrong with the Email sent and if i am correct he is actually in breach of his own "lifetime guarantee" as he is not providing a solution to the problem.

I'm no expert on remapping but i have never known anybody need to open the ECU to remap if they truly know what they are doing and are using the latest equipment.

Yet he is prepared to come on this Forum and basically give two fingers to JCB and say "it's not our fault" He also states in his emails that if there had been something wrong the car would not have started first time not cycled 10 times then failed. Well again im no ECU Guru but i know who i would be inclined to believe and if REVO,Oscarli,Jabba etc are saying its possible then im afraid i would believe it was possible.

Gary my advice to you would be to contact JCB offline of this Forum and try to come up with a solution that is amicable to both of you. That shows you "take pride in your customer care" and are willing to help if something goes wrong. Maybe then you will get some saving grace.

A good example of customer relations for you. I once had a Forge Diverter valve fitted to my car. It appeared to be failing so i telephoned them and they sent me a service kit free of charge. When i took the DV off i found the solenoid to be broken. I telephoned Forge and they said that was not covered under the warranty. I then came on this forum and commented that it wasn't BUT in the same sentence said the cost of a new solenoid was about 5 times cheaper than a new DV and that Forge customer service had been really helpful. Forge saw that post and sent me the solenoid out and 2m of hosing with a note inside saying it was free of charge. I telephoned just to question this and the guy i spoke to said they had saw the post and didn't want a disgruntled customer "EVEN AT THEIR EXPENSE" so had sent the solenoid for free. I thanked them profusely and still offered to pay and they still refused.

Now that is what i , and no doubt everyone else, would call good customer service. I even posted up in the Forum about how good i had been dealt with. Ever since then if anyone has asked me about Forge i have told them of my experience and it has often swayed a decision for someone knowing that they care about there customers. Your business will run mainly on word of mouth and you are doing yourself a whole load of damage by your attitude, your emails and yours posts in this Forum.

JCB - I hope you can get some resolution soon and if i were you i would be taking legal advice. Most solicitors do 30 mins free anyhow so it can't do you any harm to do so.

Carl:thumbup:

Edited 29 April, 2009 by Mater
Spelling Mistake

[Kandy]

You've got to adjust your customer service expectations according to the size and reputation of the company you are dealing with. Big names will obviously react more positively even to (frankly) the rather accusatory and demanding and UNPROVEN complaint by the OP. A small co. offering £100 postal remaps isn't likely to give a monkey's are they! OP should have tried being tactful first - and escalated according to the response he received. That's life!

[cjb]

IEP, you CAN bench flash an ECU with out the issues with sensors missing on power up etc. No need what so ever to open up and ECU "IF" you "TOTALLY" know what your doing.

Presumably, if you have equipment that can flash the ECU, you would also have something capable of clearing the errors on the bench before you send the ECU back?

I've never flashed an ECU, but I've worked with complex electronics for many years now and you really don't want to go unsoldering and resoldering things without a very good reason to do so. Even with the right skill and equipment it's always possible to damage something. Lift tracks, damage a plated-through hole etc. If, as the other posters in this thread say, flashing is entirely possible on a bench or |(if you have the car too) via the ODB-II interface, then why would you open up and desolder an undamaged ECU? maybe if a bench flash failed for somr reason, so you could get the EPROM onto a standalone programmer?

[edit]

Fishy thing is -

Why was the ECU opened up in the first place? AFAIK it is simply not necessary, and any delicate electronics can get damaged by static shock that only shows up later on in service.

My ECU was remapped on a bench without being opened up- no sensor codes or any probs whatsoever.

I'd be more worried about thermal or physical damage to the board as the chip is removed and refitted.

Edited 29 April, 2009 by cjb

[vRS Carl]

You've got to adjust your customer service expectations according to the size and reputation of the company you are dealing with. Big names will obviously react more positively even to (frankly) the rather accusatory and demanding and UNPROVEN complaint by the OP. A small co. offering £100 postal remaps isn't likely to give a monkey's are they! OP should have tried being tactful first - and escalated according to the response he received. That's life!

Kandy

Do you work for Custom Tuning?

The email JCB sent had nothing wrong with it. A customer has every right to question a product if the product does not perform as expected. Also your expectation of customer service should not change depending on the size of the company. A Company no matter how big or small should do all they can to help. If that was the case you would expect smaller companies to bend over backwards to try and make there way into the market. Especially if their main route of business is from word of mouth

Carl:thumbup:

[shark_90]

SkodaMart's ECU didn't show any error codes that I remember after I'd powered it up on the bench in his 1.8T vRS, and certainly no CEL.

I wouldn't want to solder anything unless I had to - and IMHO that would only be after a failed flash that was unrecoverable with boot mode.

[Jigger72]

You've got to adjust your customer service expectations according to the size and reputation of the company you are dealing with. Big names will obviously react more positively even to (frankly) the rather accusatory and demanding and UNPROVEN complaint by the OP. A small co. offering £100 postal remaps isn't likely to give a monkey's are they! OP should have tried being tactful first - and escalated according to the response he received. That's life!

I think you've got it mixed up a bit

Just a quick search on here will throw up multiple instances of terrible customer service from many big franchises/companies/dealer networks. Most big companies serve such a vast customer base and recoup such massive profits that a few complaints won't touch them, and it's usually a battle to get any recognition of your complaint, let alone a resolution. Think 5hit Fit, to name one such 'big name' company!

Smaller companies, however, are surely more reliant on word-of-mouth through forums such as this, rather than mega marketing budgets and national/global ad campaigns, so will normally respond in a more helpful manner (in my experience at least) so as not to adversely affect their smaller business. They can't afford to take too many hits, like, for instance, Audi, can.

I also disagree about the OP's reaction being an excuse for CT to react as it did. The OP was stranded across the other side of the UK with his wife and family. You'd be annoyed too

My initial impression was that CT needs to grow a thicker skin if it's going to succeed. However, none of us know how this is going to turn out and CT could yet save its reputation. I’m watching this space…

[chrisjackson]

IEP, you CAN bench flash an ECU with out the issues with sensors missing on power up etc. No need what so ever to open up and ECU "IF" you "TOTALLY" know what your doing.

you are right yes

[coursemyhorse]

Kandy

Do you work for Custom Tuning?

I got the distinct impression that Kandy was in some way affiliated as well.

[David 8]

Hey John

I was talking too Scott today........Natrually he thinks all this business is hysterical:rolleyes:

[iep]

This thread has more drama than an episode of eastenders! I'm hooked.

I guess Phil Mitchel is being played by CT and John is possibly playing Ian Beal. The rest of us are collectively playing Dot by butting in in a dispute between two other people about which we really know nothing.

Thrilling stuff.

iep

[trundlenut]

This thread has more drama than an episode of eastenders! I'm hooked.

I guess Phil Mitchel is being played by CT and John is possibly playing Ian Beal. The rest of us are collectively playing Dot by butting in in a dispute between two other people about which we really know nothing.

Thrilling stuff.

iep

That doesn't bode well for either JCB or CT, as we all know how often it all ends happily ever after in eastenders.

[jonnycatbiscuit]

This thread has more drama than an episode of eastenders! I'm hooked.

I guess Phil Mitchel is being played by CT and John is possibly playing Ian Beal. The rest of us are collectively playing Dot by butting in in a dispute between two other people about which we really know nothing.

Thrilling stuff.

iep

Cheers mate - not sure I like being compared to Ian Beale though... (in fact I don't really fancy being likened to anyone in EE!)

[jonnycatbiscuit]

Hey John

I was talking too Scott today........Natrually he thinks all this business is hysterical:rolleyes:

Yeah, he would. Flash git! I remember when he was thinner than me...

[iep]

Yeah, sorry about that. If it's any consolation I did at least cast myself as Dot Cotton and Ian has often punched above his weight in that show.

iep

[pix]

This thread has more drama than an episode of eastenders! I'm hooked.

I guess Phil Mitchel is being played by CT and John is possibly playing Ian Beal. The rest of us are collectively playing Dot by butting in in a dispute between two other people about which we really know nothing.

Thrilling stuff.

iep

Was thinking the very same thing myself.

[jonnycatbiscuit]

Was thinking the very same thing myself.

What? the thread being dramatic, or me being Ian Beale? <>

[David 8]

I remember when he was thinner than me...

:rofl::rofl:

Yeah he's catching me up slowly :rofl:

[andy2407]

Interesting read.

This thread should be made a stickie for anyone considering a cheap re-map.

RichardBW - if you're still reading this - thanks - you are the man!

[GaryCT]

Yes that sounds like an excellent idea and we will rename the sticky "Don't slag tuning companies before you know exactly whats gone wrong with your ECU" :thumbdwn:

[jaymd]

Yes that sounds like an excellent idea and we will rename the sticky "Don't slag tuning companies before you know exactly whats gone wrong with your ECU" :thumbdwn:

I just love your comments.

You just don't realize the damage you are doing to your Company (if it is yours:rolleyes:) posting comments like you do.

You come across so professional .

There was a recent thread on another car forum asking if people had a map done by CT and a link to this thread was posted:rofl:

OP then commented ' Enough said!':rofl:

It's good advertising for yourself as google results will be on the 1st page and everyone will read 'Your' comments and stay away.

Even if it turns out CT did nothing wrong to the ECU you have done the damage for ever.