I'm back with another question for my favourite bunch of tech-geeks!

I'm planning to buy a TV for my room, was going to get a 32" LCD or something as there are some reasonably priced one out now, but my dad was saying to get a 37" Panny plasma. I'm happy enough with that if I can find a good priced one as I know Panny are at the top of the TV food chain at the mo. Thing is, is it worth getting full 1080p?

I was going to, but then was chatting to a friend who said that for normal TV broadcast having a 1080p can make the image look worse that if you had less pixels as it is trying to upscale the image to 1080.

Now, I have no reason to doubt him, but as I've never heard that it would be worse before I would like a few more opinions. I can understand how a 'less that 1080p' image wouldn't look any BETTER on a full HD tv, but hadn't heard it would be worse!! He has a 1080 Sony LCD and tbh, the images are cr4p on it. Very very pixelated, which I really wouldn't be happy with from a new telly!!

Also, any views on buying graded stock?

So.....and advice guys? TIA

Loz

I have a 37" 1080p TV in my room and that does not make the image look any worse than any normal TV at all. Generally it will only look worse if the TV settings are wrong. I.E. Sharpness, Contrast, Colour Temp etc

The best advice anyone can give you is go to a Shop and have a look at the TV in action. Most shops have a TV feed going into it and that will give you an idea of the image quality. Then you just buy the TV that has the best Picture for your budget.

If you want my Fiancee's parents have my old Sony 1080p LCD tv in there lounge i can take a pic of it with normal TV on if you like so you can see the Quality. I honestly can't see any difference. Most of them come with built in digital tuners now so that helps.

Also if the TV is not receiving full HD signal it won't display it. Some will upscale DVD's etc (although usually thats the job of the DVD player) however i don't know of a TV that upscales normal Terrestrial TV. It will just display in normal format

HTH

Carl

I think mater's hit the nail on the head: something like Freeview isn't HD, and in fact is so compressed to fit within the spare bandwidth of the analogue signal that an analogue picture will be better. But stick a DVD in (let alone an HD source), and you'll see that the quality issues are solely down to Freeview!

On a personal note, I'd avoid plasma like the plague. We had two (Hitachis, admittedly, but the screens are made in the same factory as Panasonic), and both had dead cells and severe burn-in issues. Then again, aside from that, the picture did seem sharper and richer than the (LCD) Sony we have now, even after any amount of user and service setting adjustment...

Just go to a shop and look, like the man says!

Problem with shops is they have so many TVs running from the same aerials that all the pictures are rubbish and not a fair representation of the telly. I'm not expecting anything 'un-HD' to look HD, but I would expect a normal signal to look clear and acceptable if you get me.

Screen burn is apparently no longer a big issue with plasmas according to Which etc, and they are better for night time viewing as they have proper blacks, whereas LCDs being back-lit are better for daytime viewing. Also plasmas don't show blur as much as LCD because of the refresh rate.

loz, i have a 6 year old 42" plasma in my bed room(old living room telly) and has no screen burn, no dead pixels and no other issues at all despite being on for probably 6 hours a day or more everyday for over 5 years being used for consoles, tv and films.

Plasma's use more electric, cost more to buy, weigh more etc etc but at the same spec as lcd give a better image quality, better contrast, better colours and no blur with east moving objects or panning. If you can afford it get a plasma but be warned that for equal spec they cost around twice as much if not more.

loz, i have a 6 year old 42" plasma in my bed room

You're impressing no one having one that large in the bedroom...

I think mater's hit the nail on the head: something like Freeview isn't HD, and in fact is so compressed to fit within the spare bandwidth of the analogue signal that an analogue picture will be better.

The compression of Freeview is nothing to do with the "spare bandwith" of analogue as it is transmitted on a different system .Each analogue channel transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth ,each freeview multiplex transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth but carries

18 to 40 Mb/s of data .The compression of the picture data then decides how many "channels" you can fit into each multiplex, freeview channels tend to be in the range 1-7 Mb/s each depending on the broadcaster .There is talk of 4 HD channels being multiplexed onto 40Mb/s for Freeview HD when analogue switch off is complete ,there are not enough 8MHz RF channels at the moment because of co-channel interference on analogue

For those (including Which?) who reckon plasmas don't get burn-in, can I suggest displaying a screen with some static images and some moving ones (e.g. BBCi or Wii News Channel) for 20-30 minutes, then switching to a non-broadcasting channel like Russia Today? What you'll find is that the non-broadcasting channel is actually dark grey not black, and you will have darker patches where the phosphor has faded in places that were showing static graphics. And this was little more than a year ago on a brand-new telly. What I would say is that the burned-in patches would fade after a day or so, although I was never sure if that was simply because the rest of the phosphor had faded to match...

But then, like I said before, even with the high contrast ratio and dynamic backlight our Bravia has, the picture was definitely better on the plasmas we had (dead cells and transient dark patches excepted! :P )

The compression of Freeview is nothing to do with the "spare bandwith" of analogue as it is transmitted on a different system .Each analogue channel transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth ,each freeview multiplex transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth but carries

18 to 40 Mb/s of data .The compression of the picture data then decides how many "channels" you can fit into each multiplex, freeview channels tend to be in the range 1-7 Mb/s each depending on the broadcaster .There is talk of 4 HD channels being multiplexed onto 40Mb/s for Freeview HD when analogue switch off is complete ,there are not enough 8MHz RF channels at the moment because of co-channel interference on analogue

Wow, you seem to know what you're talking about! Any advice on whats the best telly then?? lol!

ap0gee - Which? did take into account logos of tv channels....maybe you just got a bad panel? Who knows.....may be worth looking for it on ones in shops which are on for hours and hours a day. They didn't say it's impossible, just that it's be vastly improved upon and is no longer a real problem....

Will have to do more searching for reviews and stuff

Few points to bear in mind.

1) you get what you pay for with upscaling... IE my Sony v5500 is very good at upscaling non-HD terrestrial. courtesy of bravia3 lol

2) iirc isnt the wii (at very most) 720i?

based on the fact you wont actually have any full HD source, you can save a shedload of cash by settling for a 720p tv. (also benifits of 1080 on a 32" are minimal anyway)

The latest LG sets are very good for the money.

The compression of Freeview is nothing to do with the "spare bandwith" of analogue as it is transmitted on a different system .Each analogue channel transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth ,each freeview multiplex transmits on 8MHz of RF bandwidth but carries

18 to 40 Mb/s of data .The compression of the picture data then decides how many "channels" you can fit into each multiplex, freeview channels tend to be in the range 1-7 Mb/s each depending on the broadcaster .There is talk of 4 HD channels being multiplexed onto 40Mb/s for Freeview HD when analogue switch off is complete ,there are not enough 8MHz RF channels at the moment because of co-channel interference on analogue

Thank you for giving chapter and verse! I may have used terminology loosely, but my point was that the analogue channels use up a significant portion of the bandwidth available from any given transmitter, and that when the switchover happens, quality will improve as you say...

Graded stock! No don't buy these, there is virtually no guarantee's with them. Go with your dads recommendation and buy the Panasonic plasma 37", Freesat Version, you can't buy better unless it be a Pioneer Kuro but they are expensive.

John Lewis are the cheapest with a 5yr guarantee and do a price match up to 28days after you purchased so you can claim back retrospectively.

I have the 42" version and can't fault it.

HD broadcasts are much better than SD but the amount off programmes are limited at present unless you take out SKY subscription.

To sum up from a guy who works in a large public broadcaster (sure you can work it out):

- SD can look worse on HD TV due to upscaling artefacts

- 720p can look better than 1080p below a certain screen size

This is IIRC due to the reduced number of pixel boundaries as each pixel has them

Oh and the comment of CRT FTW was also given.

Had a Pany 42" plasma for over 4 years - no screen burn or lost pixels/cells. The only reason I'll replace it is its not HD. Having said that I'm watching South Pacific at the moment and the picture is excellent.

Shops are mostly useless to decide what you want as they don't even try. In Currys this pm and they had an ad for Sky HD on in SD:thumbdwn: or on other screens they had their in house SD ads - even worse:( They had several running blue ray or similar - wouldn't you think they would run the same on all so you could compare - they are idiots:thumbdwn:

For those (including Which?) who reckon plasmas don't get burn-in, can I suggest displaying a screen with some static images and some moving ones (e.g. BBCi or Wii News Channel) for 20-30 minutes, then switching to a non-broadcasting channel like Russia Today? What you'll find is that the non-broadcasting channel is actually dark grey not black, and you will have darker patches where the phosphor has faded in places that were showing static graphics. And this was little more than a year ago on a brand-new telly. What I would say is that the burned-in patches would fade after a day or so, although I was never sure if that was simply because the rest of the phosphor had faded to match...

No such problems despite endless gaming and watching of BBC news and QVC on my 42" full HD Panasonic plasma TV. My TV is used for at least 6hrs per day everyday and shows not a single sign of image burn whatsoever, has no dead pixels and excellent PQ. I will never buy an LCD TV, my parents have one and the motion blur on fast motion and poor contrast are clearly noticable.

as already said you obviously had a shi te plasma mate

mine was used in very long stints for gaming(6 hours+) and suffered no screen burn what so ever, but then i paid £3,000 for it 6 years ago when they were pretty new out.

oh yeah the Wii only goes to 480p or what ever it is, not even 720 :(

Personally I dont think you get any real benefit of full 1080p on any screen less than 42 inches. Even with 42" you need to be sitting within a couple of metres of the screen to notice the difference over 720p. There's some great bargains to be had on slightly older "lower spec" (ie non-1080) TV's and given your requirements, probably worth saving some cash.

1080p charted: Viewing distance to screen size

I have seen this TV on John Lewis who are currently doing a FREE 5 year warranty with all HD TV's

Any good?

Buy LG 32LH2000 LCD HD Ready Digital Television, 32 Inch online at JohnLewis.com

We've had an LG 32" LCD for some time now and it's been pretty good.

If you're not going to have any HD sources then just got for a 720p one. Ours is 720p and it works great.

We have an up-scalling DVD home theatre which gives a very good picture and I have just built a media centre PC which is connected via HDMI and will play HD content with very good results.

Also the wii still looks pretty good even at 480p through a component cable and is definately an improvement over SCART!

PC World near us have all their TV's set up properly all with a proper HD input etc!

Phil

Col - the TV of my friends is a Sony Bravia and it looks totally rubbish on normal tv, I just don't get it...

As for wii, I am fully aware that it is far from HD! Thats not why I am asking about it, thats just something I'm going to use it for, because, well, it's a telly?!?!

I'd be getting HD because then I could get a blu ray player and play HD channels etc when they become more available, more of a 'because I can'. I am asking about it because of this thing about it looking worse than a non-HD one....

Graded stock! No don't buy these, there is virtually no guarantee's with them.

They have a years warranty, like they would from a shop.

My cousin just got a 50" Panasonic Viera Plasma. I have NEVER seen quality like it. You can of course get them smaller, and i have no idea on the UK cost of one, but just letting you know the picture quality is nothing short of incredible.

Really wanting a Panny plasma...... gonna have to buy one aren't I? :(

I'd be getting HD because then I could get a blu ray player and play HD channels etc when they become more available, more of a 'because I can'. I am asking about it because of this thing about it looking worse than a non-HD one....

Loz, I think that latest post from you is the most important one.

The 720 / 1080 question for me really points to 1080. There's no real point in getting a 720p telly except if it's a real small size, 32" or lower because there aren't that many 1080p 32" panels, and as Colin said, with your viewing distance, I doubt you'd get much benefit from it.

However, if you go down the blu-ray route, then it really makes sense to get a 1080p TV, particularly one that does 24 frames per second playback. Most, if not all of the new models do, but do check on the "lower spec" ones.

Plasma or LCD is more of a personal choice. Each camp can boast about their pros and the other's cons. I haven't seen a latest gen plasma so cannot comment on their picture quality as I only ever get to play with LCD, but chances are the picture is "smoother", particularly for gamimg. If you're not gaming and you'd only ever use it for blu-ray, then I'd think it's less of an issue because you're only playing with 24fps and not 60, so any motion blur should be reduced. However, if you're viewing is in a totally dark room, then you will get better blacks and contrast out of a plasma.

If you want something that's to be used as an every day telly, and quite a bit, maybe get an LCD.

Point is, overall, they're much of a muchness and the final deciding point will probably be cost, etc.

Don't get graded, not worth the potential hassle unless warranty is really good, which I doubt being graded.

If you decide to get a bravia and if one day you come down south, I can probably help you get a cheaper one

Really wanting a Panny plasma...... gonna have to buy one aren't I? :(

Yes you are. From John Lewis, they are the cheapest even for the next 28days after you bought it plus free 5yr guarantee. You can buy them a bit cheaper on line but would have to wait longer for delivery also there is always a risk with the smaller on line shops. The Freesat version is worth buying if you dont like plugging in extra boxes.

Personally I dont think you get any real benefit of full 1080p on any screen less than 42 inches.[/url]

I have a 22" 1080p widescreen tv/monitor that I run the Xbox 360 and main PC through, and at that sort of range you deinitely see the benefits as you would with a standard monitor. It's not worth dismissing them out of hand as it all depends on the intended usage.