DSG or Manual?

[Zdenek Fibich]

Well summed up there by Bassa. It really is horses for courses. I'd have an automatic or DSG if I drove all the time in town (actually if I did that I'd probably have a Toyota Prius!), or if I could afford another six-cylinder Audi.

With the Octavia the manual gearchange is excellent and just that much more fun to drive. It was a decision on balance but on the whole I'm glad I went for the manual.

[gadgetman]

Manual. Better control.

Unless you're buying a premium motor, then usually the gear selection isnt as good as a manual would be IME.

[cjb]

My point is that the DSG offers a varied choice of driving modes and each one is very satisfying according to your mood or road conditions. With a manual there is no choice and in very slow moving traffic I find it hard to believe that anyone actually enjoys the constant dipping/releasing of the clutch pedal. Taking into account economy and emissions, the DSGs in my opinion are the best by far of the auto/semi auto transmissions currently on offer. A manual car for me is now history but it is each to their own.

Good luck with your choice.

+1. Bassa is right on the money there.

Given my daily commute and a back problem that makes constant clutch operation a real pain (literally) my DSG is fantastic. If my drive was open road the manual might be the choice.

My answer is: If you have ever considered an auto, the DSG is fantastic. It gives the ease of auto with much of the control of a manual, and little economy penalty.

I've driven manuals most of the time, but driven lots of autos, and in my situation, the DSG is fantastic. It's in between the two, but will play nice if you just stick it in D.

I think Bassa is just trying to defend a very good gearbox. When I let my friends or work colleagues drive my car who are not used to it they don't seem to get on too well with it either. I can assure you that after a very short period of time you will get the hang of driving the DSG. The idol clutch leg problem would be behind you after a couple of days. I do approx. 80,000kms a year and am well into my fourth year with the DSG and I will probably never buy a manual again. Just to be clear, I am a motorsport entusiast, I enjoy "very" spirited driving, my hobby is motorcycling (Ducati 996S), the point I am trying to make is that the absence of a clutch pedal does not dilute the fun of driving in any way. Either way its a matter of personal choice, but you can take it from me, you will not be left wanting when it comes to enjoying your drive.

P.S Best of luck with the new car, whichever one you choose.

Again, this is a good summary. DSG isn't perfect- but it is very good indeed. It confuses manual only drivers and people used to a conventional auto as it is differnt to both, but it takes the tediousness out of traffic and still gives you the fun on th eipen road. It very occasionally picks the wrong gear, so you get a shunt and delay, but this improves as it adapts to your style (and vice versa).

Edited 16 August, 2009 by cjb

[dieseldarren]

My experience of DSG was a day with 2.0 tdi 140 Superb II

I was impressed with it overall, there were a few moments when it briefly couldn't decide but these were very few really. (Lets face it we all sometimes misjudge a corner or a hill & pick the wrong gear manually) Certainly much better than any conventional torque converter auto-box.

[Evening Star]

Mmm, much "food for thought" here!

I really don't know which to choose, I'm drawn to the DSG for the sake of my arthritis, however I love the involvement & precise control of the manual.

On the flip side there's the economy & slightly lower emissions on some of the DSG cars, whilst not so on others.

I can't find any DSG cars to test drive as there are none available!

Arrrgggghhh...

[Brimma]

I can't find any DSG cars to test drive as there are none available!

Arrrgggghhh...

I hate to say it, but have you tried the other local VAG dealers to see if any of them have a DSG demonstrator or used vehicle - one would assume it operates in a similar fashion whichever make of car you drive, so long as it is of similar engine size/power output to the Skoda you're looking for.

[k.young]

I hate to say it, but have you tried the other local VAG dealers to see if any of them have a DSG demonstrator or used vehicle - one would assume it operates in a similar fashion whichever make of car you drive, so long as it is of similar engine size/power output to the Skoda you're looking for.

When I was looking for one to test drive there where no Octavias (2.0 DSG) in Ireland so I found a Seat Altea 2.0tdi DSG, a little bit cheeky as it was a staff car from the importers but the salesman was only to willing to get it for me !! (needs must). An Audi A3 should be a little easier to find, it may ride a little better but the drivetrain is identical.

[Fellwalker]

Mmm, much "food for thought" here!

I really don't know which to choose, I'm drawn to the DSG for the sake of my arthritis, however I love the involvement & precise control of the manual.

On the flip side there's the economy & slightly lower emissions on some of the DSG cars, whilst not so on others.

I can't find any DSG cars to test drive as there are none available!

Arrrgggghhh...

I originally changed to auto because of my left knee cartilage. I have not regretted it. DSG is so much easier in town, or in traffic (particularly traffic jams, and how common are they nowadays?). My knee no longer gives me problems. And cruise control has stopped the problem developing in my right knee. And saved me a few points in 30 and 50 limits (it is so easy to drift faster when you are controlling the accelerator pedal, especially if others are not sticking to the limit!). I would have thought DSG with cruise was a real boon to anyone with arthritis.

In terms of a test drive, the Passat is a posher version of the Octavia. Both our local VW dealers had a DSG version of that, in stock. It is a very nice car, but has a boot which takes away from its practicality. And it is significantly bigger, so did not fit in to my garage without major re-organisation and risk of damage to the car getting in and out.

About once a year I think I might like a manual, but then I drive my wife's car and remember why I don't have one. Gear changes are never as smooth, there is always the chance of a stall, or a missed gear. Driving through traffic is a real pain.

Economy depends far more on the right foot than the left.

[Evening Star]

I still can't make up my mind so, I'm going back to the garage and see if the 170CR vRS is still there and if it is try out again before I make my final decision.

I know everyone says how DSG is a delight to use in heavy traffic, but with me being a shift worker I don't see heavy traffic that often if at all, my shifts usually start at anywhere

between 0330 & 0610 for morning shifts & 1200 & 1710 for evening shifts, so it's a case of no one around for the am ones & I'm going against the flow in the evening ones, there are just 4 middle shifts where I might get caught in traffic but I rarely get them.

Also my route is mostly rural, so it's only the last 1,5 miles, that I pick up any sort of built up area anyway, so is it worth £965 extra on the price of a car for it? I don't really know.

I think I'll see what happens on either Friday or Saturday when (if it's still there) I try it again.

[nokiauk]

I guess I am undecided as well I've driven automatics for the last 2 years, started with a Saab 9-3 diesel which had a standard auto box, this wasn't bad but the manual control was rubbish as the computer over-rode it all the time, also fuel economy was shocking.

I then went to the 7speed DSG in my current Golf which is even better, ok so occasionally it pick the wrong gear but then so could I, generally its very smooth, even when flooring it and great in traffic (no stalls etc).

I have ordered my new VRS with a manual but now wonder whether I should change the order and go for the DSG :confused: It would be the 6speed rather than 7 but should be very similar, only downside is emissions and mpg are worse, though it would enable me to get the factory Bluetooth .

Although I am getting a excellent deal on my trade in the dealer said the DSG's are not really in demand 2nd hand especially sports models like my Golf and the VRS so come trade-in time it will have an effect. DSG seems more accepted in more standard models such as the Elegance/L&K or in larger cars like the Superb.

Anyone know what DSG is like on Snow/Ice my Saab struggled certainly, wonder if the greater manual control of the DSG would help?

Edited 21 August, 2009 by nokiauk

[cjb]

Anyone know what DSG is like on Snow/Ice my Saab struggled certainly, wonder if the greater manual control of the DSG would help?

It's pretty good. I had no problems with the Leon, despite the crappy pikey tyres on it (soon to be replaced). I didn't find manual mode neccesary- just left it in D and took it easy. Mind, I nevr had problems on snow/ice anyway.

The only thing that did get in the way was the ESP.

[jzc008]

It has been mentioned in this thread several times that the DSG box is more economical in fuel consumption and also has lower CO2 levels which indeed it has. But lets not lose sight of the fact that it is only slightly better (according to the Octavia Brochure July 2009):

Fuel consumption (mpg) for a 1.4 TSI

Urban (Manual/DSG) 33.2/35.3

Extra Urban (Manual/DSG) 56.5/53.3

Combined (Manual/DSG) 44.8/44.8

CO2 emissions g/km (Manual/DSG) 148/147

Taking into consideration the DSG version is £1085 more expensive then you'd have to do an awful lot of miles before the DSG box becomes the less expensive option and that's ignoring any extra servicing charges (I understand that the oil has to be changed after a certain time). Because Skoda have now revised the CO2 emissions for the manual box it is now in the same tax band as the DSG.

Therefore if you are going to buy the DSG then I think you have to decide to do so soley for reasons of convenience.

Personally I would have chosen the DSG version if:

1) The DSG box was the same price or only slightly more expensive than the manual box.

2) The warranty was longer i.e. at least 6 years but ideally 10 as I usually keep my cars this long and I've heard stories that they are expensive to repair/replace.

3) I'd had an automatic before but as I've always driven cars with manual gearboxes then I don't feel as if it something I'd miss as much.

Maybe if I'd been able to have a test drive of a Skoda with a DSG box then I might have been persuaded otherwise but the manual version was fine anyway.

[jbconno]

I tend to agree with the dealer that an auto doesnt really suit a car with sporty pretentions (supercars excepted!!). Another reason that I didnt go for another replacement Octy when mine goes back next month, I wanted the bluetooth and MFSW but didnt want an auto.

[bahnstormer vrs]

It has been mentioned in this thread several times that the DSG box is more economical in fuel consumption and also has lower CO2 levels which indeed it has. But lets not lose sight of the fact that it is only slightly better (according to the Octavia Brochure July 2009):

It, the DGS gearboxed Octy, may be better for the 'official figures', which clearly has benefits for the cost of Road Tax and Company Car Tax BUT

beware; I read a very interesting, entirely plausible and very believable article in a recent edition of Evo that suggested due to the nature of the DSG box (and whilst it is clearly better than a traditional 'auto') manufacturers are able to manipulate the gearchange points to the required degree to influence and improve the consumption and CO2 figures when on the 'official tests'.

In real life, with 'you' driving fuel consumption may not be as economical as expected.

[jzc008]

I think it has been known since official fuel consumption figures started to be quoted that real life figures are usually worse than those claimed by the manufacturer. I would though expect the DSG box to be more likely change at the optimum time.

I'm not sure how the CO2 levels are tested but presumably once the manufacturer has submitted a vehicle(s) for test then the levels are assessed and the tax band determined. Only if the engined is subsequently modified would the manufacturer be required to re-submit vehicles for re-test. I've often wondered if the CO2 levels change significantly in real life driving situations.

(see VCAcarfueldata.org.uk - New Car VED Calculator)

[skodakid]

AFAIK CO2 testing is done on a single car usually in-house. The tests dont mean every car would acheive the same result as there are considerable manufacturing tolerances. The difference between DSG and manual are negligible and you shouldnt read too much into the figures. I have a suspicion some manufacturers even cherry pick vehicles.

Manufacturers do tweak ECUs and gearbox controllers to give them good test results. Witness the number of cars that just sneak into a band at the top end.

The current fad for stop-start technology takes great advantage of the idling portion of the test to give manufacturers an exaggerated low CO2. Great for marketing and tax, but in reality not likely to lead to significant savings.

[Evening Star]

Oh Sod it...

I've just come back from another test drive with the diesel vRS with DSG box and since I last drove it, its been to the service department and it's now smooooth as silk apart from one junction, but that was me not the cars fault...

So now I really don't know what to do, it was nice to drive easy as anything.

@Bassa, I tried your method of putting my left leg behind my right so it couldn't go for the clutch or brake & it worked perfectly. Ta!

Now which to choose.... vRS or Elegance?

Which will hold its value more after 2-3 years of low mileage (7-14k miles) driving? :confused:

[silkysteve]

I tend to agree with the dealer that an auto doesnt really suit a car with sporty pretentions (supercars excepted!!). Another reason that I didnt go for another replacement Octy when mine goes back next month, I wanted the bluetooth and MFSW but didnt want an auto.

I'm not sure where this rumour started, but you can definitely have MFSW and Bluetooth without DSG.

I suggest looking at the brochure as it's all there.

[Atty]

I'm not sure where this rumour started, but you can definitely have MFSW and Bluetooth without DSG.

I suggest looking at the brochure as it's all there.

Not with the vRS model you can't.

[Evening Star]

:iagree:

[nokiauk]

:offtopic:

I have asked the dealer to quote for supply and fit the older non RSAP kit for mine before delivery, should get a price on Monday.

MFSW not required as long as you've ordered Maxidot.

[Fellwalker]

Just back from a week's holiday. Hire car was a 6 gear manual affair (Opel Vectra 1.9D). I cannot understand how anyone would want that torture of never being in quite the right gear for the situation. I got really "upset" at having to constantly change gear, and what does a 7 gear manual do to your sanity ...

And until now I had not realised what a mess manual makes of cruise control. Even on motorway with cruise control, show the car a reasonable hill and it struggled to make it. Change down and the cruise control drops off.

Thank goodness I am back at home and back to my DSG. It always finds the right gear even on cruise control.

[Evening Star]

Would you like a sedative to calm your shattered nerves???

[gaiusa]

DSG is a sedative.. I've became so calm after moving to DSG from manual. I'm calm driver. Used to be quite nervous with manual.

[gadgetman]

Change down and the cruise control drops off.

So you press the RES button, and CC resumes the previously set speed