Cuts, Cuts, Cuts.

[spitty]

We all know about the elegance losing the power folding mirrors. The elegance estate looks like it is set to lose the variable boot space. Just been on Skoda UK website and noticed that the PDF brochure for the Octavia (still showing power folding mirrors on elegance trim level). Has the SE spec trim showing as the radio to be the Bolero. If you now go on the Standard and optional features on the website the radio is showing as the 'Swing' this is the radio that is standard on the S level trim. Just a heads up in case any one has ordered an SE spec. vehicle and it arrives with the wrong radio.

[cheezemonkhai]

Seems to me that plenty of bits are going from the car.

I guess VWAG told them to stop getting at the VW cars and to make more money from each car.

Skoda, not as good value as they used to be and soon to be as expensive as a VW for the kit you get.

Edited 23 March, 2010 by cheezemonkhai

['daiking']

Seems to me that plenty of bits are going from the car.

I guess VWAG told them to stop getting at the VW cars and to make more money from each car.

Skoda, not as good value as they used to be and soon to be as expensive as a VW for the kit you get.

Yep, all the fault of those nasty goose-stepping Jerries at VW Towers. There they are, dressed in leather, scoffing bockwurst and sauerkraut laughing at the Brits and their down-specced Skadowagens, "Ve are ripping off zee see-lly Ing-leash". Squareheads down for the big bosch gangbang. Absolutely nothing to do with a government that has single-handedly attempted to destroy our economy and reduce our currency to toilet paper.

Or it could be a legitimate tactic to differentiate your spec levels and get people to plump for the top spec rather than a good one. Mazda are one probably one of many also at it and I imagine the currency imbalance is playing a part in clawing back a few % of margin wherever manufacturuers can.

[cheezemonkhai]

Yep, all the fault of those nasty goose-stepping Jerries at VW Towers. There they are, dressed in leather, scoffing bockwurst and sauerkraut laughing at the Brits and their down-specced Skadowagens, "Ve are ripping off zee see-lly Ing-leash". Squareheads down for the big bosch gangbang. Absolutely nothing to do with a government that has single-handedly attempted to destroy our economy and reduce our currency to toilet paper.

Or it could be a legitimate tactic to differentiate your spec levels and get people to plump for the top spec rather than a good one. Mazda are one probably one of many also at it and I imagine the currency imbalance is playing a part in clawing back a few % of margin wherever manufacturuers can.

So what downspec the elegance, downspec the SE to make people get a higher spec.

The fact that folding mirrors were a VW/Audi thing and skoda now have them means one less differentiator, so make them an option.

I don't know I think it all ties in a bit much with Skodas beating the VW's at most tests even in Germany.

Yes there are the currency issues, but eh car is made in Europe and UK prices have been going up regardless.

Anyway, I think it's a combination of both myself.

As for bockwurst they are good, the sauerkraut is good (but only if done Polish style), leather well the Trench Coats work. As for ripping us off, well look at what happened regarding UK and EU spec L&K Octavia for a long while.

[flinflon]

Does anyone know if these penny-pinching, bean-counting, smoke-and-mirror changes apply to the UK and NI or is Eire included?

[dsemuk]

Looking at skoda.co.uk I am still seeing the SE fitted with Bolero.

Cleared my browser cache just incase I am looking at an old page.

Screenshot anyone?

[mannyo]

The SE is still listed as having the Bolero radio here in the UK,

The variable floor, yes its now an extra on the UK site and priced at £140 inc.VAT. To be fair though, I think it became an option at the facelift.

[j_hankey]

The SE is still listed as having the Bolero radio here in the UK,

The variable floor, yes its now an extra on the UK site and priced at £140 inc.VAT. To be fair though, I think it became an option at the facelift.

Surely thats only on the S and SE. The Jan brochure still lists "Variable boot floor (Estate only)" as standard equipment ?

[Aspman]

It's not just cars. You can see the reduction in the extras or the quality of components in many products. Corporates are using this as a tactic to increase profits without increasing prices.

[Allams Skoda]

As far as I'm concerned Elegance are still coming with variable boot floors and SE and above come with Bolero.

I wouldn't take the brochure as gospel, as someone else has pointed out it STILL says folding mirrors a standard equipment.

[NeilM27]

Well I hope not, as I have just found out my car should be built in week 15 (mid April), which would suggest that I am likely to be one of the first ones to find out if this is true or not. :S

[cheezemonkhai]

Basically, if you're ordering the car and specific features are important to you, then get them listed and attached to the contract, signed by both parties.

[digidoctor]

Yep, all the fault of those nasty goose-stepping Jerries at VW Towers. There they are, dressed in leather, scoffing bockwurst and sauerkraut laughing at the Brits and their down-specced Skadowagens, "Ve are ripping off zee see-lly Ing-leash". Squareheads down for the big bosch gangbang. Absolutely nothing to do with a government that has single-handedly attempted to destroy our economy and reduce our currency to toilet paper.

Or it could be a legitimate tactic to differentiate your spec levels and get people to plump for the top spec rather than a good one. Mazda are one probably one of many also at it and I imagine the currency imbalance is playing a part in clawing back a few % of margin wherever manufacturuers can.

Thank you daiking. You made my day.

[aixlad]

Basically, if you're ordering the car and specific features are important to you, then get them listed and attached to the contract, signed by both parties.

Johnson v HWM Ltd 17-3-1997 Kingston County Court

Allows an indefinite delivery date for a new car and also change of specification of the car in between dealer order and manufacturer delivering the car to the dealer because both are out of control of the dealer. If a contract has been entered into between dealer and customer with a substantial deposit, then that contact remains binding and, unless specified in the original contract, an indefinite delivery date or change of specification are not breaches of contract.

[thinkblueskies]

So what downspec the elegance, downspec the SE to make people get a higher spec.

Yes there are the currency issues, but eh car is made in Europe and UK prices have been going up regardless.

Yes. The car is made in Europe, where they have the Euro. We buy cars in the UK, with pounds. The less value the Pound has, the more Pounds we pay to get cars from Euroland.

If pounds become much less valuable in Euroland, they'll soon be using our fivers as toilet paper and we'll be paying £20k for base spec cars...

[cheezemonkhai]

Johnson v HWM Ltd 17-3-1997 Kingston County Court

Allows an indefinite delivery date for a new car and also change of specification of the car in between dealer order and manufacturer delivering the car to the dealer because both are out of control of the dealer. If a contract has been entered into between dealer and customer with a substantial deposit, then that contact remains binding and, unless specified in the original contract, an indefinite delivery date or change of specification are not breaches of contract.

I'm not a Lawyer, however I keep seeing this one piece of case law quoted on this forum. Throw it into google and every hit is Honest John.

Just for interest, I think I will have to get a copy of the case either the appropriate legal bookshop or from a friend.

I'm sure there are plenty of good barristers who could come up with other case law or even just take that decision to appeal based on an area of law that would allow certain cases to argue against that. If it gets overturned in a higher court, then it's gone anyway.

First one I can see that you could argue is what constitutes is a substantial deposit? 1%, 10%.

Another is the dealer proving they had no knowledge. That's not as easy as you think.

Another could be to attack the deal under false advertising laws.

Plenty of options.

I also might be missing something, but that case was in 1997 and consumer laws were updated after that date (2002 IIRC) so maybe there is an argument that the new laws change this.

Plus something you've obviously missed what I said or didn't read the judgement. The summary posted on HJ for want of a better source said :

"If a contract has been entered into between dealer and customer with a substantial deposit, then that contact remains binding and, unless specified in the original contract, an indefinite delivery date or change of specification are not breaches of contract. "

Notice the bit I've highlighted in bold/italics.

Hence if you get the specification list added to the contract, then that becomes specified in the original contract and as such would in my opinion cause that piece of case law to not apply as a get out clause.

At the end of the day you can quote one piece of case law at me all you like, but you also have the issue that the consumer has rights too.

I don't think you can say you order a car, and as long as the dealer claims they don't know say you get a totally different specification for the same money.

An example, you ordered an Elegance Octavia, but then Skoda decide they will change the spec levels so that the Elegance only has SE toys and the SE only S.

It's not reasonable to expect you to pay for the car when a lot of options have gone.

If you ordered a car that came with leather as standard, then the leather was removed as standard and your car arrived with no leather, are you really telling me that would be binding.

Yes. The car is made in Europe, where they have the Euro. We buy cars in the UK, with pounds. The less value the Pound has, the more Pounds we pay to get cars from Euroland.

If pounds become much less valuable in Euroland, they'll soon be using our fivers as toilet paper and we'll be paying £20k for base spec cars...

I'm aware how currency exchange rates work thanks

FWIW the pound is still worth more than the Euro and the Dollar, so if you're using £5 notes for toilet paper, you might want to move to 5 Euro notes as it's cheaper loo roll. Saying that the yellow dye used to be not good for you (not sure if it's still true) so be careful which notes you use.

Edited 24 March, 2010 by cheezemonkhai

[PowerMalc]

Yes. The car is made in Europe, where they have the Euro. We buy cars in the UK, with pounds. The less value the Pound has, the more Pounds we pay to get cars from Euroland.

If pounds become much less valuable in Euroland, they'll soon be using our fivers as toilet paper and we'll be paying £20k for base spec cars...

Skodas are made in the Czech Republic where the currency is not the Euro but Czech Crowns (Koruna)

There has been much less variation between the Pound and the Czech Crown than there has been with the Euro.

Perhaps this is the reason why Skoda UK feel they can continue to offer the 'VAT' off deal

[Minimoke]

Cheezemonkhai

Johnson v HMW reinforces what is generally in black and white in most dealers new car sales contracts anyway. Dealer contracts often specify that if the manufacturer changes the spec before delivery then the specification at delivery takes precedence and rules. Some contracts contemplate the buyer being given a refund or the opportunity to re-order. Some do not. Some are silent (in which case Johnson v HMW may come into play). Every new car that I have bought from various dealers over the years has always had this "get out". I'm afraid that the phrase "it is not reasonable to expect...." does not cut the mustard in contract.

As you (and I) have pointed out before the only certainty is to get the key features you need specifically written into the original contract.

Edited 24 March, 2010 by Minimoke

[magic62]

Known cuts in Germany

Only drivers side mirror is autodipping (still an extra though!) not both of the outside mirrors.

No more locking wheel nuts as standard.

The famous spare tyre.

[octavialover]

Having picked up my new FL Elegance, beginning of March, I have noticed a couple of other very minor things that have been omitted/changed from my previous Elegance. On the windscreen, at the top was a full length 6" tinted strip which helped to reduce the glare from the sun, which is missing on the new one and have noticed that the battery is now wrapped up in a fabric type material attached with velcro, whereas all the previous Octys I have had, had a rigid plastic box, with a clip on top. Am not sure if the battery box is penny pinching or not, but deleting the windscreen sun strip is definitely scraping the barrel. How much are they saving by leaving it out................... cant be more than a pound or 2 surely!

As stated they are only minor things, but am happy as I got the electric folding mirrors

[magic62]

You are right, already forgotten about that. Had someone at my place with a brand new VRS CR DSG.

The car has a smaller battery, 61Ah now instead of the 74Ah lump which is in my car. And that divers suit wrapping instead of the rigid (plastic) box.

And as you mentioned the windscreen doesnt have the tinted upper band anymore.

[thinkblueskies]

Skodas are made in the Czech Republic where the currency is not the Euro but Czech Crowns (Koruna)

There has been much less variation between the Pound and the Czech Crown than there has been with the Euro.

Perhaps this is the reason why Skoda UK feel they can continue to offer the 'VAT' off deal

Oops. Obvious Eurozone-membership fail by me. Moral of the story- don't post after midnight.

Edited 25 March, 2010 by thinkblueskies

[thinkblueskies]

I'm aware how currency exchange rates work thanks

FWIW the pound is still worth more than the Euro and the Dollar, so if you're using £5 notes for toilet paper, you might want to move to 5 Euro notes as it's cheaper loo roll. Saying that the yellow dye used to be not good for you (not sure if it's still true) so be careful which notes you use.

Good point on the yellow dye- remind me not to use the toilets if I ever visit UKIP offices. Ignoring the tongue in cheek fiver comment though, the fact that one pound is worth more than one Euro is irrelevant.

What matters is how the value's changing. With mounting national debt that's likely to keep climbing for years, the pound isn't going to maintain its current value. I've been wrong to include the Czechs in the Eurozone though, and I'll own up to that and take the mickey taking like a man.

Some of the logic holds though. For cars/components that *do* come from the Eurozone, we'd better get used to more expensive cars.

Some standard VAG parts we need to fit into our Skodas are made elsewhere in the EU. We're going to pay more for them too.

[broere]

For what it's worth, the specs in any country of the EU are different. Just have a peek on the internet on any national site of Skoda, and look for yourselves how specs can differ, sometimes in details, sometimes over larger issues. It is a fact that Skoda was getting too interesting, compared to VW. The man in charge of Skoda (forgetting his name, think it's a German) will be replaced. The new Superb break will be the largest Skoda ever built, because the next Superb shall and will be smaller. German magazines lately estimated the Skoda pendant of a VW model higher, which is not pleasing the VW men (Yeti - Tiguan, Passat break - Superb break): there was more value for money and they were better equipped and finished. Now that profits in Skoda seem no longer satisfactory, they will trim the Skoda's down: they should again become the basic cars. Visual quality should be lower than that of a VW. I'm afraid we will be getting used to lesser for more, the times they are a changing. (there was an article in Der Spiegel about it lately)

PS: Specs in Belgium are lower than in Britain...

[colsay]

On the currency issue as rightly pointed out by previous poster, cars are assembled in Czech Republic but contain some high value add components such as engine/transmission which are probably made in Eurozone. I don't know how the manufacturing cost of an Octavia is broken down would I would think the majority of the cost is still Euro. I don't know how many suppliers they have locally but that would be my hunch.

Pound against Euro is a difficult prediction as Eurozone has its problems too (Greece, Portugal etc) but I would tend to agree with other posters that the pound will continue to weaken.

If we think about UK taxation then whoever wins the election a 20% VAT rate must be on the cards. We already have the "showroom tax" starting in April for plus 150g CO2 cars. So, put weaker currency and higher tax together and we have more expensive cars. How do the manufacturers cope with this? Well, one route that is clearly being followed is reducing the spec and "cost cutting" such as the battery container. I think we should anticpate more of this...